Romantic Friendships

[bmullins]

This is a new concept to me and something I need help understanding. I understand that our United States view on relationships is much different than that in the rest of the world. I am trying to understand it from a Catholic standpoint rather than from any countries view.

First a quote:

The term romantic friendship refers to both very close but non-sexual relationship and at times physical relationship between friends, often involving a degree of physical closeness beyond that which is common in modern Western societies, and may include for example holding hands, cuddling, kissing, and sharing a bed.

I have trouble reconciling the two but am not sure I should? I do know that as a married man if I were to ‘hold hands, cuddle, kiss and share a bed’ with a woman other than my wife, it would at the very least be something that caused my wife much anger and grief(while in all honesty she’d probably beat me to death.) I would see it the very same way if she were to do the same with another man.

If it is an unacceptable sort of friendship in that case, why is it acceptable in another? Is it only because of the marriage bond?

 

[Luvtosew]

I think that is Called Friends with Benefits, not allowed in the Catholic Church.

I might be reading what your asking wrong.

If it leads to premarital sex -yes, for a married man, yes even if not sexual.

 

[joanofarc2008]

This is a new concept to me and something I need help understanding. I understand that our United States view on relationships is much different than that in the rest of the world. I am trying to understand it from a Catholic standpoint rather than from any countries view.

First a quote:

I have trouble reconciling the two but am not sure I should? I do know that as a married man if I were to ‘hold hands, cuddle, kiss and share a bed’ with a woman other than my wife, it would at the very least be something that caused my wife much anger and grief(while in all honesty she’d probably beat me to death.) I would see it the very same way if she were to do the same with another man.

If it is an unacceptable sort of friendship in that case, why is it acceptable in another? Is it only because of the marriage bond?

My understanding is this is a secular concept for those that want certain things without the benefit of a commitment - sort of a friends with benefits type situation. I would say that it is not right.

 

[bmullins]

That was my first impression as well, but the lack of sexual contact/acts seems to indicate it’s not ‘friends with benefits’. I’ve always perceived the friends with benefits concept to be a relationship in which you are having sex, but no commitment.

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

I think that is Called Friends with Benefits, not allowed in the Catholic Church.

I might be reading what your asking wrong.

If it leads to premarital sex -yes, for a married man, yes even if not sexual.

My understanding is this is a secular concept for those that want certain things without the benefit of a commitment - sort of a friends with benefits type situation. I would say that it is not right.

Nope, romantic friendships are nonsexual, same sex, rather old school and not exactly secular if you go back far enough.

 

[TarkanAttila]

That was my first impression as well, but the lack of sexual contact/acts seems to indicate it’s not ‘friends with benefits’. I’ve always perceived the friends with benefits concept to be a relationship in which you are having sex, but no commitment.

As have I.

I don’t think it’s quite “friends with benefits”. But it’s dangerous. Kissing, sharing a bed, and cuddling and kissing are things couples do. It’s just Americans trying to push the envelope to find out how far you can go before romance becomes adultery.

It’s not wise, not in this country. In some country with a laxer understanding of gender-appropriate behaviours - such as in Spain, where you greet both men and women with kisses - maybe “romantic friendships” (I’m sure they don’t look on it this way) are appropriate. But not in America, where this sort of thing is what dating and married couples do.

 

[St_Francis]

This is a new concept to me and something I need help understanding. I understand that our United States view on relationships is much different than that in the rest of the world. I am trying to understand it from a Catholic standpoint rather than from any countries view.

First a quote:

I have trouble reconciling the two but am not sure I should? I do know that as a married man if I were to ‘hold hands, cuddle, kiss and share a bed’ with a woman other than my wife, it would at the very least be something that caused my wife much anger and grief(while in all honesty she’d probably beat me to death.) I would see it the very same way if she were to do the same with another man.

If it is an unacceptable sort of friendship in that case, why is it acceptable in another? Is it only because of the marriage bond?

This sounds like baloney to me! They call a close friendship without physical contact “romantic;” this blurs the line between friendship and romance, the latter of which, of course, is only to occur between people of the opposite sexes.

There is enough confusion in the world now without further degrading oir language and hemce our ideas.

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

This sounds like baloney to me! They call a close friendship without physical contact “romantic;” this blurs the line between friendship and romance, the latter of which, of course, is only to occur between people of the opposite sexes.

There is enough confusion in the world now without further degrading oir language and hemce our ideas.

The concept and practice predates modern views of friendship and romance by many centuries, complaining about it degrading our language is bizarre

 

[Equites_Christi]

Just another of people’s attempts at getting what they want without having to face any consequences.

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

Just another of people’s attempts at getting what they want without having to face any consequences.

Do explain.

 

[sw85]

This is a new concept to me and something I need help understanding. I understand that our United States view on relationships is much different than that in the rest of the world. I am trying to understand it from a Catholic standpoint rather than from any countries view.

First a quote:

I have trouble reconciling the two but am not sure I should? I do know that as a married man if I were to ‘hold hands, cuddle, kiss and share a bed’ with a woman other than my wife, it would at the very least be something that caused my wife much anger and grief(while in all honesty she’d probably beat me to death.) I would see it the very same way if she were to do the same with another man.

If it is an unacceptable sort of friendship in that case, why is it acceptable in another? Is it only because of the marriage bond?

Yes, such behavior is GROSSLY immoral.

It is either adultery or else the proximate occasion of sin and thus must ALWAYS be avoided.

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

Yes, such behavior is GROSSLY immoral.

It is either adultery or else the proximate occasion of sin and thus must ALWAYS be avoided.

The nature of such a relationship between men is fundamentally different from that of a relationship between a man and a woman.

If the man loves the woman sexually then yes it would be very wrong, however if he doesn’t then not so much.

There are plenty of women who have cuddled with their girl friends, kissed 'em (not making out), held hands and slept in the same bed (sleep overs anyone?), there is an inherent double standard where it is entirely fine for a female, but “clearly morally wrong” for guys.

Bromance is actually not to far a parallel from it, bromance has kind of formed out of a realization of a need for intimacy in a culture where men are marrying later if ever. People need intimacy, but they don’t need sex. If they have intimacy they can be quite fulfilled, but if they have a complete lack of it then sexual desire grows to try to “fill” that need.

 

[bmullins]

You see it much different than I do. I have indeed slept in the same bed as another man. When working on construction crews sometimes that is the only choice. I’ve never kissed another man on the lips nor have I ever ‘cuddled’ with him. My idea of cuddling must be different than yours as well.

I also think it’s a different perception of the way women behave and men do. Sisters behave much different than brothers do. So I would say that the defining characteristic should rather not be ‘it’s ok because sisters do it’ but if you are doing only things you would do with your own same sex sibling then it is by right, normal.

When you cross that line and do something with another person of the same sex that you wouldn’t do with your own brother, or with your family present… then I think it crosses a line. There is a reason it is done behind a door. I wouldn’t kiss my wife a certain way in front of others, and I wouldn’t cuddle her in certain ways in front of others.

It’s when we decide that behavior that should rightly belong between a husband and wife in private is ok between unmarried people in private, because ‘sex’ isn’t involved that we cross a line.

 

[Nate13]

Kissing someone on the lips has a sexual connotation to it in my eyes. I guess if two people could kiss, cuddle, and sleep in the same bed without there being any sexual excitement to it, there would not be a sin. If any of these things leads to sexual excitement then it would be a sin.

And if they weren’t cause for sexual excitement I would have to ask why would a guy want to kiss another guy or a girl kiss another girl? You say they are after “intimacy”, but why are these physical signs of affection that are usually used to show sexual intimacy necessary in order to do that? Maybe its just a cultural thing, but I do not expect to be able to understand this idea anytime soon, and will just leave it at as long as these things are not cause for sexual excitement I don’t see what would necessarily be wrong with them. If they are not cause for sexual excitement then its not a temptation.

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

You see it much different than I do. I have indeed slept in the same bed as another man. When working on construction crews sometimes that is the only choice. I’ve never kissed another man on the lips nor have I ever ‘cuddled’ with him. My idea of cuddling must be different than yours as well.

I also think it’s a different perception of the way women behave and men do. Sisters behave much different than brothers do. So I would say that the defining characteristic should rather not be ‘it’s ok because sisters do it’ but if you are doing only things you would do with your own same sex sibling then it is by right, normal.

When you cross that line and do something with another person of the same sex that you wouldn’t do with your own brother, or with your family present… then I think it crosses a line. There is a reason it is done behind a door. I wouldn’t kiss my wife a certain way in front of others, and I wouldn’t cuddle her in certain ways in front of others.

It’s when we decide that behavior that should rightly belong between a husband and wife in private is ok between unmarried people in private, because ‘sex’ isn’t involved that we cross a line.

Men used to do the same things actually, the only difference is that men stopped because of the Decadents and Freudism

In some places you can’t hold hands with a woman you are married to, in others kissing guys on the lips is totally normal. Should culture define everything?

Kissing someone on the lips has a sexual connotation to it in my eyes. I guess if two people could kiss, cuddle, and sleep in the same bed without there being any sexual excitement to it, there would not be a sin. If any of these things leads to sexual excitement then it would be a sin.

And if they weren’t cause for sexual excitement I would have to ask why would a guy want to kiss another guy or a girl kiss another girl? You say they are after “intimacy”, but why are these physical signs of affection that are usually used to show sexual intimacy necessary in order to do that? Maybe its just a cultural thing, but I do not expect to be able to understand this idea anytime soon, and will just leave it at as long as these things are not cause for sexual excitement I don’t see what would necessarily be wrong with them. If they are not cause for sexual excitement then its not a temptation.

Oh really now? You do realize that the original sign of peace was a kiss on the lips right?

Well if cuddling is sexual that gives a whole new meaning to the Beloved disciple reclining against Jesus

 

[Nate13]

Men used to do the same things actually, the only difference is that men stopped because of the Decadents and Freudism

In some places you can’t hold hands with a woman you are married to, in others kissing guys on the lips is totally normal. Should culture define everything?

Oh really now? You do realize that the original sign of peace was a kiss on the lips right?

Well if cuddling is sexual that gives a whole new meaning to the Beloved disciple reclining against Jesus

Maybe its just a cultural thing, but I do not expect to be able to understand this idea anytime soon, and will just leave it at as long as these things are not cause for sexual excitement I don’t see what would necessarily be wrong with them. If they are not cause for sexual excitement then its not a temptation.

I’m not sure what your throwing a fit about in my post. I believe the underlined portion of my last post holds no matter what the culture. I personally see no benefit in cuddling or kissing another man for myself or the other guy but that is just my opinion. You can point to John “cuddling” with Jesus if that is what you want to call it as proof of your idea but I don’t really view that as John cuddling with another guy. I see it more as laying his head on God’s shoulder as a child of God. The imagery it brings to mind is more that of a baby being held in the arms of his father and resting his head on his shoulder.

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

I’m not sure what your throwing a fit about in my post. I believe the underlined portion of my last post holds no matter what the culture. I personally see no benefit in cuddling or kissing another man for myself or the other guy but that is just my opinion. You can point to John “cuddling” with Jesus if that is what you want to call it as proof of your idea but I don’t really view that as John cuddling with another guy. I see it more as laying his head on God’s shoulder as a child of God. The imagery it brings to mind is more that of a baby being held in the arms of his father and resting his head on his shoulder.

I’m not throwing a fit, that’s just my writing style sometimes. Perhaps next time I shouldn’t respond to posts half way up a rock face shaw:

To really grasp it you have to have a medieval mindset which I supposed caused me to go medieval on you.

 

[RCIA4]

Close friendships don’t need to be “friends with benefits” or of a sexual nature most close friendships aren’t… I’ve got a bromance going with one of my best friends and I’ve known him for more than fifteen years…

As for the whole physical affection thing such as hugging that’s just something you closed minded ninnies need to get over LOL…

Joey and I hug all the time and we’re men… Joey has a wife and two kids… Neither of us are gay… But we’re both best friends and physical affection brings of closer together…

We never do anything sexual like sharing a bed or kissing… The point is its okay to be physically affectionate with someone your close friends with… As long as it isn’t sexual your okay…

And we’re both Catholic

I’m wondering if some people here were deprived of physical affection sometime in their life … In a Psych class I had I learned physical affection that doesn’t turn sexual is very healthy for the mind and body… I’ll dig up the study and post it here…

 

[Leegal]

This is a new concept to me and something I need help understanding. I understand that our United States view on relationships is much different than that in the rest of the world. I am trying to understand it from a Catholic standpoint rather than from any countries view.

First a quote:

I have trouble reconciling the two but am not sure I should? I do know that as a married man if I were to ‘hold hands, cuddle, kiss and share a bed’ with a woman other than my wife, it would at the very least be something that caused my wife much anger and grief(while in all honesty she’d probably beat me to death.) I would see it the very same way if she were to do the same with another man.

If it is an unacceptable sort of friendship in that case, why is it acceptable in another? Is it only because of the marriage bond?

VOW. For the married couple, they have taken a sacramental vow before God.

What you provide is a generic definition of romantic which intends to be all inclusive. It is secular and not religious. And no, unmarried couples cannot share a bed by Church teaching either, despite what Merriam-Webster terms as romantic.

 

[RCIA4]

If your married then you can cuddle and have all the sex you want lol…