Rome excommunicates four Ukrainian bishops

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Peter_J said:
I don’t know, but I suppose it’s possible. Where did you hear that?
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Sedevacantists? Indeed!

These folk love to anathematize by name (if you check their website). Who have they anathematized and excommunicated? Let’s see…

882 Bishops of the European Union
13 Superiors General (incl. Jesuits, Dominican, Minims, Trappists and the 3 Franciscan First orders
228 Bishops of India
The entire Sacred College of Cardinals (incl. individual anathemas on Cards. Sandri, Dias, Vlk, Burke, Husar, and Levada)
2271 Latin Rite bishops (all named in the anathema)
265 theologians of the Pontifical Gregorian U
the Focolare Movement
John Paul II
Benedict XVI John Paul was posthumously excommunicated, and Benedict was excommunicated for beatifying John Paul.
 
Hesychios said:
I thought that was old news.

They are just vagantes attached to their latinizations. Perhaps I am wrong but I thought Major-Metropolitan Cardinal Husar had already dealt with them before he retired.
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May be old news in some respects, but these are the folks who established the so-called “Ukrainian Greek-Catholic Orthodox Church” in 2009, and ceremoniously excommunicated the Holy Father as one of their first public and official acts effective 1 May 2011. The also excommunicated +Blessed Pope John Paul II and declared his beatification invalid.

They focus on “the beatification of the Spirit of Assisi” as a central reason and rationale.

The declaration is read by Patriarch Elijah and was publicly disseminated via YouTube.

As if there weren’t enough problems for our Ukrainian brothers and sisters, Catholic and Orthodox alike, to sort out …
 
An acquaintance of mine who is very “Eastern” had this to say.

When I told him, matter of factly, that Rome had excommunicated “those Basilians” - he smiled and said, “What, all of them?” 😉
 
I’m really puzzled by some of the reports that come out of Ukraine. The SSJ make it sound like everything is going to hell in a handbasket, yet earlier this year when I met up with a decent sized congregation of Ukrainian born parishoners at a certain Midwestern parish, I was very impressed because they were more Catholic than alot of Roman Catholics.
 
Seamus_L said:
I’m really puzzled by some of the reports that come out of Ukraine. The SSJ make it sound like everything is going to hell in a handbasket, yet earlier this year when I met up with a decent sized congregation of Ukrainian born parishoners at a certain Midwestern parish, I was very impressed because they were more Catholic than alot of Roman Catholics.
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It is difficult to understand without study and background, but the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church (UGCC) to which you were exposed is indeed very Catholic in orientation, yet faithful to their traditions as well. In the Old Country, the UGCC is a minority. There are not one but two “counterpart” Orthodox Churches - one independent and one part of the Moscow Patriarchiate. Because of the damage done to all Churches during the Communist era, today their exists much tension over church properties are related issues, as these properties are being returned. However, it is sometimes difficult given the history (Communist era all the way back to the time of the Union of Brest) to equitably determine which Church should rightfully possess which properties. It is clearly a mess, requiring great leadership, patience and prayer to resolve.

To further complicate matters, the small splinter group referred to in this thread has added another wrinkle. Frankly, from what I know, the Catholic Church had no choice but to excommunicate them, not so much because of their public claims and “excommunications”, but in the interests of keeping the peace and permitting progress to continue in Orthodox-Catholic dialogue and relations within the Ukraine.

Fortunately, IMHO, the UGCC Major Archbishop, His Beatitute Sviatoslav, is a young and apparently effective leader. He will hopefully be able to promote the best of relations with our Orthodox brethren and represent the interests of the full Catholic Church, East and West, with dignity and honor.

May God grant him and our Ukrainian Greek Catholic brothers and sisters many blessed years!
 
ByzCathCantor said:
Fortunately, IMHO, the UGCC Major Archbishop, His Beatitute Sviatoslav, is a young and apparently effective leader. He will hopefully be able to promote the best of relations with our Orthodox brethren and represent the interests of the full Catholic Church, East and West, with dignity and honor.

May God grant him and our Ukrainian Greek Catholic brothers and sisters many blessed years!
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Wasn’t that him who came and spoke with the USCCB a little while back?
 
ByzCathCantor said:
There are not one but two “counterpart” Orthodox Churches - one independent and one part of the Moscow Patriarchiate. !
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Three, last I heard–theere’s MP, KP, and UOAC, and I think a couple of little splinters, too.

hawk
 
ByzCathCantor said:
To further complicate matters, the small splinter group referred to in this thread has added another wrinkle. Frankly, from what I know, the Catholic Church had no choice but to excommunicate them, not so much because of their public claims and “excommunications”, but in the interests of keeping the peace and permitting progress to continue in Orthodox-Catholic dialogue and relations within the Ukraine.
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I disagree with this assessment, unless I misunderstand you in which case I would say I am not comfortable with how it is worded.

The issue between the excommunicated renegade Basilian priests/vagante bishops (most of whom, if I recall correctly, are not actually Ukrainian) and the Papacy-UGCC is strictly a Papal Catholic one. This has nothing to do with the Orthodox of Ukraine, and nothing to do with relations with the Orthodox. It is an internal matter over internal policies and practices, a debate within the Papal communion.
 
Seamus_L said:
I’m really puzzled by some of the reports that come out of Ukraine. The SSJ make it sound like everything is going to hell in a handbasket, yet earlier this year when I met up with a decent sized congregation of Ukrainian born parishoners at a certain Midwestern parish, I was very impressed because they were more Catholic than alot of Roman Catholics.
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:confused: Were you expecting them to be ‘less Catholic’ b/c they’re Ukrainian?
 
dochawk said:
Originally Posted by ByzCathCantor
There are not one but two “counterpart” Orthodox Churches - one independent and one part of the Moscow Patriarchiate. !
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Hawk, I don’t speak for ByzCathCantor, but yes you are correct: 3 (plus a few smaller splinter groups).
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Hesychios said:
I disagree with this assessment, unless I misunderstand you in which case I would say I am not comfortable with how it is worded.

The issue between the excommunicated renegade Basilian priests/vagante bishops (most of whom, if I recall correctly, are not actually Ukrainian) and the Papacy-UGCC is strictly a Papal Catholic one. This has nothing to do with the Orthodox of Ukraine, and nothing to do with relations with the Orthodox. It is an internal matter over internal policies and practices, a debate within the Papal communion.
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Sorry for any unintended confusion or inference.

The Orthodox groups have absolutely nothing to do with this splinter group, of course, but the argument was made that actions of this faction have undermined the credibillity of the UGCC and Rome as they are engaged in what is a delicate series of discussions (negotiations) regarding church properties and other related matters.

There is no connection asserted between this splinter group and the Orthodox. In fact, they argue that they are the “real” Catholics, and Rome has apostatized.

As such, the splinter group had started threatening to make their own claims regarding church properties already in dispute, as the true Catholics. This apparently was the inherent danger to which Rome and the UGCC responded with actual excommunication.
 
Alexander_Roman said:
Not at all. They were excommunicated for condemning different bishops and teachings of the Catholic Church as well as spreading their errors to others, while causing confusion among the UGCC faithful. Not to mention setting up their own “church” entitled the “Ukrainian Orthodox Greek-Catholic Church.”

Alex
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What about the ACP’s meeting in Dublin yesterday? They called for an end to celibacy, women priests and the attendees were nuns and priests. What on earth is the Pope going to do about them? They are spreading their errors all around Ireland and Europe.
 
ByzCathCantor said:
I stand corrected, as I forgot about the UAOC. 😊
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There are parishes of the other Orthodox groups that have moved over to the UOC-KP. The Kyivan Patriarchate is under tremendous pressure from the Moscow Patriarchate which is moving to see it destroyed.

As an aside, the Kyivan Patriarch, His Holiness Patriarch Filaret, was in Toronto in April. The Ukrainian Orthodox (EP) Metropolitan Yurij sent a letter to his flock emphatically stating that they were not to welcome him in their parishes and institutions.

But His Holiness was warmly welcomed at the Ukrainian Catholic Parish of St Demetrius where he toured the seniors’ facilities there and praised the parish priest, the Rt Rev. Fr Archimandrite Tataryn for his work. The next day, His Holiness came for the Divine Liturgy there and afterwards he decorated our parish priest with the Order of St Volodymyr, Class III for his work with our seniors (Fr Tataryn also founded St John the Merciful Mission, which is now Orthodox - but his portrait is prominently displayed in the hall anyway).

Despite the unfortunate divisions, and the division into Eastern Catholic and Orthodox is the most unfortunate one, we Ukrainians can and do get along. When Orthodox can’t get along, Eastern Catholics step in to show how it’s done! 🙂 🙂

As for the ACP’s above, I know nothing about them only that I’ve heard Irish seminarians speak approvingly of pre-marital sex etc. It seems that such errors are already widespread there!

And now I wish everyone here adieu and am quite serious about making my leave from here permanent.

God bless you all!!

Alex
 
Seamus_L said:
I’m really puzzled by some of the reports that come out of Ukraine. The SSJ make it sound like everything is going to hell in a handbasket, yet earlier this year when I met up with a decent sized congregation of Ukrainian born parishoners at a certain Midwestern parish, I was very impressed because they were more Catholic than alot of Roman Catholics.
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I am part Ukrainian (and know Ukrainian culture). What qualities made these Ukrainian born parishioners more Catholic than a lot of Roman Catholics?

Peace,
Ed
 
I was exaggerating a little when I said more Catholic than alot of RC’s. This was in reference to there kneeling after returning from Communion during Lent, and there obvious love of a number of devotions originating in the West.
 
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