Rome says Trads deserve respect

[deogratias]

Because there are a few forum members who have expressed deep distaste for the word “traditionalists” and for their adherence to the old Mass, I thought this might be of interest to them and others.

From a CWNews.com article:
**Quote:**Cardinal Castrillon Hoyos, the prefect of the Congregation for the Clergy, is also chairman of the Ecclesia Dei commission, set up by Pope John Paul II to supervise the implementation of the papal indult authorizing a “wide and generous” accommodation of Catholics who prefer the traditional [Latin] Mass. The cardinal also has been delegated by Pope John Paul II to handle negotiations with the schismatic Society of St. Pius X, in an effort to bring that traditionalist group back into full communion with the Holy See.

To satisfy the legitimate concerns of traditionalist Catholics, “a greater understanding is necessary,” the cardinal said. He observed that Pope John Paul has “recognized the validity of their liturgical sensibilities.” While other Catholics may not share those sensibilities, he insisted that traditionalists “are not second-class Catholics and must not be treated as such.” Regarding the status of talks with the Society of St. Pius X, Cardinal Castrillon said that “the Pope and his closest collaborators are doing everything within their power” to persuade the Lefebvrist group that “the time is ripe” for their return.

 

[Crusader]

deogratias:

Because there are a few forum members who have expressed deep distaste for the word “traditionalists” and for their adherence to the old Mass, I thought this might be of interest to them and others.

What’s are “Trads”, and what is the “old Mass?”

The problem I see is some people labeling themselves as “Traditional Catholics.” To me that sounds like just another Protestant sect, much like the “Old Catholics” or “Liberal Catholics.” At the very least such labels are extremely devisive.

Perhaps you can simply call yourself a “Catholic” or if you absolutely must, a “Roman Catholic” who happens to enjoy the Tridentine Mass?

Keep in mind even a traditional-minded Catholic need not necessarily be a fan of the Tridentine Mass. I am quite “traditional” in my Catholicism yet I think the Novus Ordo Mass celebrated daily on EWTN is even bit as solemn and wonderful as the finest Tridentine Mass

Also, which “old Mass” are you talking about? One that predates the Tridentine Mass (according tot he 1962 missal of course?) If so, which one?

 

[Timidity]

deogratias:

Because there are a few forum members who have expressed deep distaste for the word “traditionalists” and for their adherence to the old Mass,

I’ve never seen anyone here express distaste for “traditionalists”.

I have seen people express distaste for people who are more loyal to a given ritual than they are to the Magisterium of the Church.

 

[deogratias]

Crusader:

What’s are “Trads”, and what is the “old Mass?”

The problem I see is some people labeling themselves as “Traditional Catholics.” To me that sounds like just another Protestant sect, much like the “Old Catholics” or “Liberal Catholics.” At the very least such labels are extremely devisive.

Perhaps you can simply call yourself a “Catholic” or if you absolutely must, a “Roman Catholic” who happens to enjoy the Tridentine Mass?

Keep in mind even a traditional-minded Catholic need not necessarily be a fan of the Tridentine Mass. I am quite “traditional” in my Catholicism yet I think the Novus Ordo Mass celebrated daily on EWTN is even bit as solemn and wonderful as the finest Tridentine Mass

Also, which “old Mass” are you talking about? One that predates the Tridentine Mass (according tot he 1962 missal of course?) If so, which one?

Knowing you and I have had many previous discussions and disagreements on this subject, I know you know perfectly well what I meant by Trads and Old Mass but for your further clarification I will say that I am only the messenger . You will have to ask Cardinal Hoyos what he means in his message by “traditionalist Catholics”.

Excuse my use of the words “old Mass” I will defer to those used by Cardinal Hoyos - traditional [Latin] Mass.

Now I don’t see anywhere in my post where I referred to myself as anything - traditionalist or otherwise.

The message stands from Cardinal and not from me and so any questions or comments you have should be directed to him.

 

[Joanne_ca]

If all churches were like the ones shown on EWTN, there wouldn’t be this need to reach out for the “Old Mass”. I know that the church I grew up with and just recently left in favour of Tridentine church, is nothing like those. This church has no Latin spoken at all, no confessionals, total irreverance for God’s home, and the list goes on. It’s more like a bingo hall than a church. These masses on tv I noticed show no lay people giving communion or altar girls which is the norm at my previous church.Wouldn’t it be great if our churches in the real world were like those on EWTN. Yes, I’m a trad, who is loyal to the churches teachings and proud of it. I could go on but I think my point has been made and I thank Rome for granting us the respect we deserve.

Joanne

 

[Crusader]

Joanne_ca:

If all churches were like the ones shown on EWTN, there wouldn’t be this need to reach out for the “Old Mass”. I know that the church I grew up with and just recently left in favour of Tridentine church, is nothing like those. This church has no Latin spoken at all, no confessionals, total irreverance for God’s home, and the list goes on. It’s more like a bingo hall than a church. These masses on tv I noticed show no lay people giving communion or altar girls which is the norm at my previous church.Wouldn’t it be great if our churches in the real world were like those on EWTN. Yes, I’m a trad, who is loyal to the churches teachings and proud of it. I could go on but I think my point has been made and I thank Rome for granting us the respect we deserve.

Joanne

1.) What’s a “Tridentine church?” I have heard of the Tridentine Mass, but not the Tridentine church.

2.) While the use of Latin is encouraged during the Novus Ordo Mass, it’s not a requirement.

3.) The use of Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion is allowed by the Church.

4.) Female altar servers are allowed by the Church.

5.) No, you don’t seem to follow the Church – you seem to follow your own notion of what’s “best” (see above.)

6.) You seem to take “pride” in being a “trad” and not in being a member of His Church.

 

[JCB]

Crusader:

3.) The use of Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion is allowed by the Church.

4.) Female altar servers are allowed by the Church.

5.) No, you don’t seem to follow the Church – you seem to follow your own notion of what’s “best” (see above.)

6.) You seem to take “pride” in being a “trad” and not in being a member of His Church.

1. Then why doesn’t the Mass shown on EWTN use them ?
   4.) Then why doesn’t the Mass shown on EWTN use them?
2. Using your logic EWTN does not seem to follow the Church. Instead they seam to follow their “own notion of what’s best.”
3. Does that mean because you enjoy the EWTM Mass you take pride of not being a member of " His Church " ?

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

I have edited the quote so that you can see the question from Crusader (in red) with the answer provide by JCB (in black).

JCB:

3.) The use of Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion is allowed by the Church.
3) Then why doesn’t the Mass shown on EWTN use them ?

Becuase they are not mandatory but they are allowed.

EWTN is not the final say.

4.) Female altar servers are allowed by the Church.
4.) Then why doesn’t the Mass shown on EWTN use them?

Again, they are not mandatory. Actually I believe the brothers of the order do the serving, this is not done in the parish setting.

5.) No, you don’t seem to follow the Church – you seem to follow your own notion of what’s “best” (see above.)
5) Using your logic EWTN does not seem to follow the Church. Instead they seam to follow their “own notion of what’s best.”

Again, EWTN is not the final say and they do have a religous order doing their Masses so thing will be different.

6.) You seem to take “pride” in being a “trad” and not in being a member of His Church
6) Does that mean because you enjoy the EWTM Mass you take pride of not being a member of " His Church " ?

Your answer here do not fit. You were the one who said you take pride in being a Trad, and your notions do seem to go against what the Church teaches.

This is part of the issue I have with Trad Latin Catholics. They seem to want it their way, I know of some who even doubt that the Mass is valid. This is incorrect.

I know this is most likely not what you intend to do, but sometimes it is how people like you appear to be to others.

 

[Crusader]

3) Then why doesn’t the Mass shown on EWTN use them ?
4.) Then why doesn’t the Mass shown on EWTN use them?
5) Using your logic EWTN does not seem to follow the Church. Instead they seam to follow their “own notion of what’s best.”
6) Does that mean because you enjoy the EWTM Mass you take pride of not being a member of " His Church " ?

1.) I follow the Church, not EWTN.

2.) No, they merely have ascertained that they have no need to employ EMsHC given the number of priests and deacons they have at each Mass, and the relatively small number of communicants, and the fact the faithful receive under one species.

3.) EWTN executes the Novus Ordo Mass without a single liturgical abuse (at least as far as I can see.) That’s why I appreciate their efforts – ALL in conforminity with what the Church directs.

 

[deogratias]

:crying: :banghead:

I regret posting this message from the good Cardinal since it seems to have had exactly the opposite result of what was intended.

 

[IrenkaJMJ]

Just because a person refers to themselves as “traditional” it shouldn’t be assumed that they are in any way schismatic. The Tridentine Mass is to be preserved as the Pope has clearly demonstrated. He’s shown this not just by granting an indult, but by approving orders like the Institute of Christ the King who offer Mass and the sacraments the “traditional” way meaning Tridentine.

I may refer to myself as a “traditional” wife and mother, meaning I stay home and don’t have a job. Does that mean I believe all women who work outside the home are wrong? Of course not! Now there may be some who would think a wife shouldn’t work. But I shouldn’t have to stop referring to myself as a traditional wife because of that.

It seems that is what is happening when someone hears the word traditional when people use it on this forum and elsewhere. It’s like how the homosexual community “adopted” the word gay. Schismatic Catholics have taken the word traditional and now to refer to oneself as traditonal is equal to saying that one has schismatic views.