Rome tells Anglicans: it's time to decide if you are Protestants or Catholics

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angelusm said:
You cannot obey two masters, either you obey the pope of the queen. Be hot or cold, never lukewarm, what you are doing is schizofrenic. If you are not in unity with Rome you cannot call yourself Catholic. As Anglican, you have no Eucharist, no confession, etc., so you are far away from Catholicism.
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Lets be fair here, the Queen is only a figurehead in the Anglican Church and exerts very little in the way of real influence.
 
Lepanto said:
Although there is nothing wrong with triumphalism per se, what we’re talking about is the Catholic Church’s clear self-identity. Why would that sadden you?
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Asserting the truth is arrogance for those who cannot accept it.
 
angelusm said:
You cannot obey two masters, either you obey the pope of the queen. Be hot or cold, never lukewarm, what you are doing is schizofrenic. If you are not in unity with Rome you cannot call yourself Catholic. As Anglican, you have no Eucharist, no confession, etc., so you are far away from Catholicism.
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Except for the parts which are factually incorrect, this is precisely what a RC should affirm. Anglicans, of course, look at it differently, *Apostolicae Curae *included

The Queen is the titular governor of the Church of England, not of my type of Anglican

GKC

*Anglicanus Catholicus, posterus traditus Anglicanus *
 
Decide?!? Choose?!? How decidedly un-Anglican! 😉

Break out the fudge and waffles!
 
LaMar said:
That’s what my friend the rector explained to me. She’s a far better person than the average Catholic who posts here, so I’ll take her word over the consensus here.

Incidentally: Who cares about the pope, or what he thinks? I don’t, and I’m sure no sensible person (and certainly no sensible Anglican) does. The pope needs to take care of the dismal state of affairs which is “universal” (little pun there) in his own church before passing his insolent judgment upon anyone else.

Anglicans, in general, act far better than Catholics do. They’re more virtuous, more tolerant, more realistic.

Nothing personal, by the way, because Anglicans are generally much cooler than Mormons too.

Best,

LaMar
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As an Anglican, I don’t recognise much of the species in this description.

And certainly any Anglican should “care” what the Primate of the West says, on a given matter affecting the whole Church. It’s why we remember Benedict, as we remembered John Paul, in our prayers for all faithful bishops, by name, during Mass.

GKC
 
LDNCatholic said:
OK, quick restatement. I have never met an Anglican in person who claimed to be anything other than a Protestant.
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Good grief. I spent 30 years of my Anglican life explaining to anybody within range why, as an Anglican, I was catholic! As GKC says, you need to get out more!

When I had my RCIA interview, the director asked me: “So, is the Catholic Church “catholic” enough for YOU?” I told him the jury was still out on that one.
 
thirdn6 said:
Abuses has nothing to do with the holiness and teachings of the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. If somehow, although very remote, Her clergy reduces back to twelve good apostles/bishops I will still be a Roman Catholic.
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I agree with your basic point.

GKC

Anglicanus Catholicus
 
GKC said:
As an Anglican, I don’t recognise much of the species in this description.
GKC
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as an ex-Anglican, I didn’t either. It sounded more Jack T. Chick-esque than Anglican. Especially the idiocy about the Pope being pressed into military service at the end of the war. :rolleyes:
 
chris_molter said:
as an ex-Anglican, I didn’t either. It sounded more Jack T. Chick-esque than Anglican. Especially the idiocy about the Pope being pressed into military service at the end of the war. :rolleyes:
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I’m not sure of the orientation of the original poster, but such allies I can do without.

GKC

*Anglicanus Catholicus *
 
LaMar said:
That’s what my friend the rector explained to me. She’s a far better person than the average Catholic who posts here, so I’ll take her word over the consensus here.

Incidentally: Who cares about the pope, or what he thinks? I don’t, and I’m sure no sensible person (and certainly no sensible Anglican) does. The pope needs to take care of the dismal state of affairs which is “universal” (little pun there) in his own church before passing his insolent judgment upon anyone else.

Anglicans, in general, act far better than Catholics do. They’re more virtuous, more tolerant, more realistic.

Nothing personal, by the way, because Anglicans are generally much cooler than Mormons too.

Best,

LaMar
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Nothing personal?! You just trashed us and our religion. 🙂 :rolleyes:
 
Gottle_of_Geer said:
#**Evangelicals manage to belong to different traditions within Protestantism, whether Anglican, Methodist, Calvinistic Methodist, Baptist, Presbyterian, Congregationalist, United Reformed, Brethren etc. while being united in the Holy Spirit: why can’t RCs & Anglicans settle for that ? **** **
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Because we are called to be one Body, not just one “spirit.” Evangelicals like to talk about being really united, but a lot of it just comes from presuming that all “real Christians” think the same way you do. Or from making unexamined assumptions about what doctrines “matter” and which ones don’t. It isn’t a “unity” that allows for much mutual accountability, and theological development within evangelicalism consists of different groups charging off in different directions and other groups yelling at them for being “not really evangelical” with no acknowledged authority to settle the matter.

I appreciate your irenic spirit. But I can see what Catholic unity is like, and fractious and confusing as it is it’s something I deeply long for and know that Protestants do not have.

Edwin
 
LDNCatholic said:
I think that is very uncommon here in the U.K where most of the Catholics are drawn from Irish immigrant stock and sectarian violence in Ulster has led to a wide gap between Protestants and Catholics. It might be more common in rural areas that have not seen much immigration from Ireland.
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Anglicans who say they are Catholic make a point of clarifying that they are not “Roman Catholic.” I know for a fact that there are C of E folks who deny being Protestants. But I also know that there are a lot more unabashed Protestants in the C of E (for fairly obvious sociological reasons) than in the Episcopal Church.

Edwin
 
LaMar said:
Anglican priests haven’t sexually tortured little children with the help and assistance of their church to avoid prosecution.
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I am here to make you eat CROW on such a outlandish comment:

** Major sex abuse uncovered in Anglican Church **

July 16 2003

A South Australian police task force into child sex abuse within the Anglican Church had identified 217 victims and 48 possible offenders, police said today.
However the number of victims could rise to more than 400 as investigations continued, Police Commissioner Mal Hyde said.
Mr Hyde today likened the scale of police investigations into child sex abuse to those for the infamous Snowtown bodies-in-the-barrels murders in 1999.
“We have well over 200 matters to follow through on at this stage, with the possibility of that number increasing significantly,” he told reporters.
"By anyone’s measure that’s a very, very significant and complex investigation to carry forward.

"I certainly don’t know of any similar investigation on this scale within this state.
“The Snowtown case would have to rank up there but in a different kind of way.”
Of the 217 victims identified, police said 136 cases involved the Anglican Church while the others related to other churches and organisations.
Seventy-four cases dated back prior to 1982. The state government recently removed immunity from prosecution for sex offences before 1982.
Fifteen alleged offenders had multiple victims and six, including Anglican youth worker Robert Brandenburg, were now deceased, Mr Hyde said.
He said links existed with other states, including Tasmania, through the Church of England Boys Society.
“There is evidence, over the years, of some networking … which is what you expect from offenders of this type,” he said.
He refused to detail whether any offenders were still preying on children but said some investigations were close to completion.
No charges have yet been laid.
The task force, which was established in May, would be doubled in size to 11 staff to cope with the number of child sex complaints received, he said.
“I expect the investigation to reveal a lot more cases, particularly the pre-1982 cases that we need to investigate in some way to carry those through,” he said.
“I wouldn’t be surprised to see the number of cases double.”
The police investigation was sparked by calls from two Adelaide clergymen for a public inquiry into child sex allegations.
Clergymen, the Reverend Dr Don Owers and the Reverend Andrew King, said they had information the alleged abuse involved a number of Anglican parishes and had occurred over almost four decades.
Their revelations prompted the SA Anglican Church to establish an inquiry into its handling of child sex complaints and apologise to boys sexually abused by Brandenburg.
Brandenburg was found drowned soon after being charged by police with sexual offences in 1999.
Dr Owers today said the number of cases investigated by police was not surprising.
“One victim that I spoke to suggested his estimate was approximately 200 (victims of Brandenburg alone),” Dr Owers said.
"I suppose that (217 victims) sounds like a reasonable figure, unfortunately.
“But it’s generally accepted not all victims will come forward.”
theage.com.au/articles/2003/07/16/1058035061544.html

Other cases:

jmm.aaa.net.au/articles/5475.htm

rickross.com/reference/clergy/clergy292.html
 
No doubt we are supposed to feel some sort of horror at this picture. Well, I don’t. (GKC no doubt does, but he’s not part of the Communion, as he’ll be quick to tell you.) And I’m deeply suspicious of any opposition to women’s ordination that derives primarily from an instinctive reaction to the sight of a woman in vestments. There are far too many less than holy reasons why one might have such a reaction.

Edwin
 
Contarini said:
No doubt we are supposed to feel some sort of horror at this picture. Well, I don’t. (GKC no doubt does, but he’s not part of the Communion, as he’ll be quick to tell you.) And I’m deeply suspicious of any opposition to women’s ordination that derives primarily from an instinctive reaction to the sight of a woman in vestments. There are far too many less than holy reasons why one might have such a reaction.

Edwin
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What’s going on in the Anglican Communion, especially in the Episcopal church, proves beyond all doubt their theology is just a pile of rubble.

The Episcopal Candy bar analogy comes to mind.
 
jay29 said:
What’s going on in the Anglican Communion, especially in the Episcopal church, proves beyond all doubt their theology is just a pile of rubble.

The Episcopal Candy bar analogy comes to mind.
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Just what do you think you are accomplishing by slinging empty insults?

I do not defend many of the things happening in the Episcopal Church. I appreciate substantive criticisms (such as Cardinal Kasper’s remark). I do not appreciate polemical rhetoric indulged in just for the sake of being rude.

Edwin
 
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