Rome tells Anglicans: it's time to decide if you are Protestants or Catholics

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jay29 said:
The cancer of Episcopalians: the acceptance of homosexuality**

Homosexual Episcopal Bishop Will ‘Wed’ Male Partner**

By Deacon Keith Fournier
5/9/2008
Catholic Online (www.catholic.org)
LOS ANGELES (Catholic Online) - In an interview with Matt Lauer of NBC, practicing Homosexual controversialist Bishop Gene Robinson announced plans to enter into a ‘Civil Union’ with his Male Paramour.

He told the interviewer it was “what God is telling me to do” :eek:

Just as the splintering Anglican Communion was preparing for its International Lambeth Conference. Just as the controversy surrounding the actions of some orthodox Anglicans planning an alternative Conference seemed to be out of the limelight. Right at this time,a controversialist Bishop named Gene Robinson once again enters the limelight to make himself the center of attention…

catholic.org/national/national_story.php?id=27900
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Vicki as a June bride.

GKC
 
I think one very positive side effect of the +VGR catastrophe is that orthodox Anglicans in the US are now looking outside their America-centered worldview and embracing a more global (dare I say Universal??) Christian identity. Obviously the demographic shift to the Global South has been gradual, but the enormously public fallout from all that’s happened in TEC has woken up a LOT of theologically conservative Episcopalians to a much broader Anglican world (at which they are no longer the center!).

I think this can only be a good thing in the long run, not only for orthodox Anglicans who are now realigning globally to support each other and come into a fuller sense of what COMMUNION is about, but for Christian unity in general, as a unified orthodox, catholic-minded Anglican denomination/communion will be much more approachable for ecumenical dialogue both with Rome and Constantinople.

Who knows, maybe the Anglicans will one day help to serve as a bridge to gap the East-West divide? 🙂

(No, I’m not holding my breath, but as His Holiness has reminded us, we live in HOPE!)
 
chris_molter said:
I think one very positive side effect of the +VGR catastrophe is that orthodox Anglicans in the US are now looking outside their America-centered worldview and embracing a more global (dare I say Universal??) Christian identity. Obviously the demographic shift to the Global South has been gradual, but the enormously public fallout from all that’s happened in TEC has woken up a LOT of theologically conservative Episcopalians to a much broader Anglican world (at which they are no longer the center!).

I think this can only be a good thing in the long run, not only for orthodox Anglicans who are now realigning globally to support each other and come into a fuller sense of what COMMUNION is about, but for Christian unity in general, as a unified orthodox, catholic-minded Anglican denomination/communion will be much more approachable for ecumenical dialogue both with Rome and Constantinople.

Who knows, maybe the Anglicans will one day help to serve as a bridge to gap the East-West divide? 🙂

(No, I’m not holding my breath, but as His Holiness has reminded us, we live in HOPE!)
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Much of what you say is true. But one thing is misleading. The bulk of the orthodox (generally speaking) Anglicans now in the process of re-orienting, as well as the bulk of the similarly orthodox Anglicans in the 3rd world around which they are coelescing, are over on the evangelical side of the Anglican spectrum, as opposed to the Anglo-Catholic side. Most of the latter were the first out the door, to Rome, to Orthodoxy, to the Continuum. Less amenable to a Roman dialogue, maybe.

GKC
 
jay29 said:
The cancer of Episcopalians: the acceptance of homosexuality**

Homosexual Episcopal Bishop Will ‘Wed’ Male Partner**

By Deacon Keith Fournier
5/9/2008
Catholic Online (www.catholic.org)
LOS ANGELES (Catholic Online) - In an interview with Matt Lauer of NBC, practicing Homosexual controversialist Bishop Gene Robinson announced plans to enter into a ‘Civil Union’ with his Male Paramour.

He told the interviewer it was “what God is telling me to do” :eek:

Just as the splintering Anglican Communion was preparing for its International Lambeth Conference. Just as the controversy surrounding the actions of some orthodox Anglicans planning an alternative Conference seemed to be out of the limelight. Right at this time,a controversialist Bishop named Gene Robinson once again enters the limelight to make himself the center of attention…

catholic.org/national/national_story.php?id=27900
Click to expand...
Any “church” that formally, officially permits or even rejoices in same-sex so-called “marriages” is a man-made temple of narcissism at best or diabolical at worst. :nope: I really can’t see how it can be any other way.
 
GKC said:
Much of what you say is true. But one thing is misleading. The bulk of the orthodox (generally speaking) Anglicans now in the process of re-orienting, as well as the bulk of the similarly orthodox Anglicans in the 3rd world around which they are coelescing, are over on the evangelical side of the Anglican spectrum, as opposed to the Anglo-Catholic side. Most of the latter were the first out the door, to Rome, to Orthodoxy, to the Continuum. Less amenable to a Roman dialogue, maybe.

GKC
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True, however, the evangelical world itself seems to be slowly turning towards appreciating the treasures of the Apostolic Church. Not all of them, of course, but many have re-evaluated their fierce opposition to the intercession of Saints, Mary, sacramental theology, etc. Anglican Evangelicals are in an even more unique position to be able to appreciate and utilize such things.

Also, if a large, strong, orthodox Anglican communion grows out of the ruins of what’s come of the 20th century, do you think the various bodies in the Continuum would look towards reunion with them or continue separate dialogues with Rome and Constantinople? What do you think it would take for the Continuum to seriously approach full rapproachment with the AC at large?
 
chris_molter said:
True, however, the evangelical world itself seems to be slowly turning towards appreciating the treasures of the Apostolic Church. Not all of them, of course, but many have re-evaluated their fierce opposition to the intercession of Saints, Mary, sacramental theology, etc. Anglican Evangelicals are in an even more unique position to be able to appreciate and utilize such things.

Also, if a large, strong, orthodox Anglican communion grows out of the ruins of what’s come of the 20th century, do you think the various bodies in the Continuum would look towards reunion with them or continue separate dialogues with Rome and Constantinople? What do you think it would take for the Continuum to seriously approach full rapproachment with the AC at large?
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I can’t imagine a strong orthodox Anglican Communion, in the future. But if there were such, it would likely be along the lines of the AMIA or the Network, and most of the Continuum would consider it rendered hopelessly protestant, with respect to orders, no better than than TEC before the diaspora.

All it would take for any given jurisdiction to consider reuniting with a suppositional orthodox Anglican Communion would be the assurance that on all matters doctrinal, such a Communion would be fully in agreement with each portion of the Continuum. Not likely. We can’t even get together within the Continuum

In my town are two basically orthodox independent Anglican parishes, mine (of the Continuum variety), and another that seems to be AMIA. There is no interaction, no overlap between the two. We’re Anglo-Catholic, they seem to be guitar communion evangelical, run by Rev. Bob, in blue jeans.

One of the reasons the Continuum is so fractured (among about 3 such) is the determination not to re-invent the Elizabethan Compromise. This time, each jurisdiction is determined to get it right. Keeps them in their little fiefdoms.

GKC
 
Lepanto said:
Any “church” that formally, officially permits or even rejoices in same-sex so-called “marriages” is a man-made temple of narcissism at best or diabolical at worst. :nope: I really can’t see how it can be any other way.
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I’m sure you’ll be able to cite at least a single reference to the Jesus character condemning homosexuality…

Good luck with that.
 
LaMar said:
I’m sure you’ll be able to cite at least a single reference to the Jesus character condemning homosexuality…

Good luck with that.
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St. Paul condemned it and THAT IS GOOD ENOUGH! :cool:

Paul SPOKE FOR CHRIST.

St.Paul’s Letters are the WORD OF GOD. :eek:

Good luck getting around those.
 
LaMar said:
I’m sure you’ll be able to cite at least a single reference to the Jesus character condemning homosexuality…

Good luck with that.
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Not everything that I believe happened to be uttered by Jesus.
 
First Lepanto said:
Any “church” that formally, officially permits or even rejoices in same-sex so-called “marriages” is a man-made temple of narcissism at best or diabolical at worst. I really can’t see how it can be any other way.
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Then I said:
I’m sure you’ll be able to cite at least a single reference to the Jesus character condemning homosexuality…
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Good luck with that.
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jay29 said:
St. Paul condemned it and THAT IS GOOD ENOUGH! :cool:

Paul SPOKE FOR CHRIST.

St.Paul’s Letters are the WORD OF GOD. :eek:

Good luck getting around those.
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Thanks. That’s correct. The position of the Catholic church on homosexuality is the “man made” doctrine.

The homophobia which Saul of Tarsus suffered from (some historians suspect he was a closet homosexual and they make a rather convincing case for it) is not applicable to anything the Jesus character ever taught.
 
Homosexuality was considered a serious sin among the ancient Jews. Jesus was a Jew. He taught that sinners should repent in order to seek Heaven. He didn’t teach that unrepentant sinners should be in religious leadership positions. Presumably, that includes active homosexuals.
 
LaMar said:
The homophobia which Saul of Tarsus suffered from
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I don’t believe it was a “suffering”
LaMar said:
(some historians suspect he was a closet homosexual and they make a rather convincing case for it)
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Never heard of it.
LaMar said:
is not applicable to anything the Jesus character ever taught.
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Who are you to say the Word of God is not applicable to Jesus?

Would you like to explain to me how HOMOSEXUAL ACTS are not FORNICATION, which falls under lust?

All true Christians know that **ANY **sex outside of a marriage between a man and a woman is FORNICATION and is a DAMNABLE sin.
 
jay29 said:
I don’t believe it was a “suffering”

Never heard of it.

Who are you to say the Word of God is not applicable to Jesus?

Would you like to explain to me how HOMOSEXUAL ACTS are not FORNICATION, which falls under lust?

All true Christians know that **ANY **sex outside of a marriage between a man and a woman is FORNICATION and is a DAMNABLE sin.
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Would you like to explain to me WHY you CARE so MUCH about gays and lesbians? (caps in honor of you lol)

Many people here on the Catholic Answers board seem perfectly obsessed with gay men, and they’ll go to great lengths about what gay men do with one another and how they express affection. Why do you suppose this is?

I’m straight. I don’t care what Bishop Whatsisname does, who he marries, or anything else about him. A quick reading of the gospels suggests Jesus Christ doesn’t care either.

The fact that so many men here like to spend days on end discussing homosexuality suggests they might not be satisfied as straight men. Maybe you should just give in to that leather and sequin fetish and go out tonight and express yourself. 😛
 
LaMar said:
Would you like to explain to me WHY you CARE so MUCH about gays and lesbians? (caps in honor of you lol)
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Because HOMOSEXUAL ACTS are against the Word of God. The Episcopal Church is endangering the souls of it’s followers and is FALLING APART.
LaMar said:
Many people here on the Catholic Answers board seem perfectly obsessed with gay men, and they’ll go to great lengths about what gay men do with one another and how they express affection. Why do you suppose this is?
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Homosexual acts are against nature and God.
LaMar said:
'm straight. I don’t care what Bishop Whatsisname does, who he marries, or anything else about him. A quick reading of the gospels suggests Jesus Christ doesn’t care either.
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Fornication is a DAMNABLE offense.
LaMar said:
The fact that so many men here like to spend days on end discussing homosexuality suggests they might not be satisfied as straight men. Maybe you should just give in to that leather and sequin fetish and go out tonight and express yourself.
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I’m straight myself. What gets me sick is how some churches condone things the Word of God condemns.:eek:
 
thirdn6 said:
Hmm, I hope you’re not saying that those Catholics before Luther came into the scene were not fully Christians.
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I’m not saying that.​

The Catholic Church is teaching the fulness of truth through the guidance of the Holy Spirit (biblical) and so I can say she is pure. Like you, most of us are sinners, too. But as members of the Catholic Church we also are members of Christ’s body. We are purged, washed clean, and nourished by the holy sacraments. In the end, as a Church we become the bride of Christ- spotless! white as snow! PURE! Because the Lamb of God is pure!
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But - we can’t extrapolate from the faultlessness of Christ to saying the CC is faultless. Holy, yes - sinless, absolutely not. Just we can’t reason from the universality of the knowledge of Christ, to that of the Church. The CC is holy - but sinful, equipped to teach - but always needing to learn more. It is incomplete & unfinished - not perfected, not yet. **That is why the CC is always in need of reform, always needing to grow. **​

Why the Anglicans can’t be washed clean? First of all, they are not genuine members of the Catholics Church- the body of Christ.
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**If they are in Christ, then they are members of Him. Christ is Lord of the Church - never the way about. **​

Secondly, they’ve put “tattooes” (protestantism) on their beliefs and doctrines- courtesy of great false teachers and ministers who poisoned the minds of less educated and innocent souls. And so they become “clones” and “polka-dotted breeds” that even Cdl Kasper is now confused if they truly are protestants or mere catholics.
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**But that explanation limits God’s grace by the limitations of men. If I didn’t believe God’s grace overrules even the worst that men are capable of, I wouldn’t still be Catholic. That it does, is clear from the Bible: God overruled the Assyrian, making him “the rod of [His] anger” against Judah, by working through his intentions to perform His Will. We see this in the story of Joseph - his brothers meant him ill, but God used their evil purposes to accomplish His own gracious purpose. The supreme example of this is found in the events of Holy Week. And it still happens - what the Nazis & Communists meant for evil, has given the Churches Saints & Martyrs. **​

**That’s why the intentions of men are of secondary importance: God can bring great good even out of our sins. So the human acts that made up the thing we know as the Reformation, are less important than what God makes of them. Which is why Henry VIII And All That are far less important to Anglicanism than the many goods God has drawn forth from Anglicanism: it is not vitiated by its history, because God has overruled its history. Therefore, its value cannot be reduced to the events of its history - value transcends events: they are incommensurable. **

**As for the Cardinal - if he doesn’t understand Anglican ecclesiology, that is no fault of the C of E. **
 
jay29 said:
St. Paul condemned it and THAT IS GOOD ENOUGH! :cool:

Paul SPOKE FOR CHRIST.

St.Paul’s Letters are the WORD OF GOD. :eek:

Good luck getting around those.
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**Absolutely - I hope you remind all those Catholics who question what St. Paul said in Romans 3 of all that. :cool: :eek: **​

 
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