Rosary during Mass.

[LilyM]

Also read this:

ie. some personal preference is allowed among the laity because the prayers in the missal are not the best thing for everyone.

So you’re saying you’re incapable of using a Missal written in the vernacular? That you can’t correctly understand the prayers and liturgical gestures of the Mass?

The solution, surely, if this is the case, is to learn them and understand them. I’m presuming you’re neither illiterate nor unintelligent, and are therefore perfectly capable of doing so.

Remember the Baltimore Catechism, as well as Mediator Dei, were (initially?) written at a time when the Mass was said exclusively in Latin, which was not a language every schoolchild learned, or learned to the requisite level to be able to follow a Missal or the prayers of the Mass.

AND there were higher rates of total illiteracy too, in vernacular languages as well. THEN there was much more reason why someone might not be able to follow along, and hence might legitimately make use of something like the Rosary.

 

[TMC]

Why go to Mass if you’re not going to pay attention? It doesn’t make any sense to me. As a child I was taught that if you’re not paying attention you’re not at Mass.

 

[ac_claire]

So if it’s good enough just for the priest to say the prayers on our behalf then why do we need to be there on Sundays either, why doesn’t he just offer them on our behalf without our presence on that day too?

Of course we are there so that we can pray along with him, and of course the best way to do that is to pray the actual prayers, which are stipulated precisely because they ARE the best prayers we can offer!

To repsond to the part underlined above- this is the reason why the issue came up for me in the first place. We have an elderly priest who offers the TLM I attend. His words and genstures are equally hard to make out, especially if you’re sitting in the back half of the church. So it’s hard to follow along. My first few TLMs were spent flipping through the missal in confusion and trying to spy on my neighbors without being too obvious to see where they are so I could follow along. There ws a lot of flipping and scanning, not as much praying.

So what I do now when I go alone is I just start in the missal when Mass starts and try to steadily read the prayers through. I’m not in unison with the priest but at least I am offering my prayers in union with the prayers and sacrifice he is offering on our behalf.

So…why not say the rosary instead? All the mysteries are centered on Christ and if it helps you focus and pray better, and since at least two popes have recommeneded it, I don’t see why it shouldn’t be done.

The priest is the one praying the actual prayers of the Mass for us. You pray the mysteries of the Rosary, meditating on Our Lord’s passion and death as the Sacrifice is being presented at the altar, offering your prayers in union with the priest and you get the added benefit of praying all of this with the Blessed Mother. It seems like a beautiful thing to me.

 

[Leonius]

So you’re saying you’re incapable of using a Missal written in the vernacular? That you can’t correctly understand the prayers and liturgical gestures of the Mass?

This isn’t about me.

Remember the Baltimore Catechism, as well as Mediator Dei, were (initially?) written at a time when the Mass was said exclusively in Latin, which was not a language every schoolchild learned, or learned to the requisite level to be able to follow a Missal or the prayers of the Mass.

Note Pope Pius XII says that even when the Mass is said in the VERNACULAR. Also Missals were in Latin and the vernacular, I can’t read Latin now but I can follow along in my missal just fine at a Mass in Latin.

AND there were higher rates of total illiteracy too, in vernacular languages as well. THEN there was much more reason why someone might not be able to follow along, and hence might legitimately make use of something like the Rosary.

I try not to base my judgements on assumption. It is fine to say the Rosary during Mass period. Several Pope’s say so and Priests who I trust say so, that you do not like it and want to force everyone to conform to your preferred way of praying changes that not one bit.

The manner of praying at the ordinary form does not work for me at all, should I still pray in that way even though it makes its extremely difficult for me to have that great interior recollection and piety which we are meant to have at Mass?

No of course I shouldn’t the interior recollection is far more important than any exterior display, when i join in with that form of praying i find interiorly there is nothing happening at all because all my attention is drawn to the external. The trance inducing repetition of dozens of voices speaking in unison simply causes my brain to shut down. That is my experience you may not like it but there it is.

 

[I_Believe]

I think what always get’s lost in these Rosary at Mass threads is that the Rosary can be prayed for so many intentions and petitions. But it is the meditations on the Mysteries that make this gift the universal prayer of the laity. And it most certainly can be united with the Holy Sacrifice.

Fr F.X.Lasance explains this in his prayer book “With God”…

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

Once we understand the importance of meditating on the Mysteries, it should be very clear how, especially the Sorrowful Mysteries, can be united with the Greatest Prayer of the Church.

Look at these holy meditations to see how fitting they are for Holy Mass…

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

It simply can’t be denied that praying the Eucharistic Rosary builds Faith in the Real Presence, can unite one with the Liturgy in a very deep fashion, and gains Grace. Not just at Mass, but before the Blessed Sacrament Exposed or in the Tabernacle as well. At home before a Crucifix if you like.

No, the Church does not promote it. It’s not required. But it is there for all who want to embrace it. It’s Catholic and it’s ok for Mass.

 

[jeanne71350]

I don’t see why there should be any problem with this. I’ve seen people do that all the time. I know I’ve done it. I’ve prayed the Chaplet of Divine Mercy as well. They shouldn’t stop you from praying. Especially in Church.

-Jeanne

 

[diggingdeeper]

To repsond to the part underlined above- this is the reason why the issue came up for me in the first place. We have an elderly priest who offers the TLM I attend. His words and genstures are equally hard to make out, especially if you’re sitting in the back half of the church. So it’s hard to follow along. My first few TLMs were spent flipping through the missal in confusion and trying to spy on my neighbors without being too obvious to see where they are so I could follow along. There ws a lot of flipping and scanning, not as much praying.

So what I do now when I go alone is I just start in the missal when Mass starts and try to steadily read the prayers through. I’m not in unison with the priest but at least I am offering my prayers in union with the prayers and sacrifice he is offering on our behalf.

So…why not say the rosary instead? All the mysteries are centered on Christ and if it helps you focus and pray better, and since at least two popes have recommeneded it, I don’t see why it shouldn’t be done.

The priest is the one praying the actual prayers of the Mass for us. You pray the mysteries of the Rosary, meditating on Our Lord’s passion and death as the Sacrifice is being presented at the altar, offering your prayers in union with the priest and you get the added benefit of praying all of this with the Blessed Mother. It seems like a beautiful thing to me.

Are there a lot of repetitions when you pray at Mass? I hear people accuse of ‘vain repetitions’. Is that a problem?

 

[LeroyCRHP]

The Rosary is a beautiful prayer, but my opinion I don’t think sitting during mass saying it is right. Before mass, after mass, yes, but during mass there is a lot going on we need to think about and pray about.

I think it sends the message there is nothing else going on here except me praying. I find it hard to believe but keep being told that at the TLM no participation required other than being there, pray the mass, say the Rosary, I can’t get it?

americancatholic.org/Messenger/Apr1998/Wiseman.asp#top
Rosary at Mass?

 

[I_Believe]

Leonius and Claire ac, you both give good support to the fact that the Rosary can be appropriate at Mass. It’s clear you both understand why it’s ok.

But I do think it’s important to pray the prayers of the Mass with the priest. Pope Pius X tells us
" …you must follow with eye, heart, and mouth all that happens on the altar. Further, you must pray with the priest the holy words said by him in the Name of Christ and which Christ says by him. You have to associate your heart with the holy feelings which are contained in these words and in this manner you ought to follow all that happens on the altar. When acting in this way, you have prayed Holy Mass"

I’ve been to quite a few TLM’s the last year or so, and I still get ahead of the priest or behind at times, but it’s getting easier because I’m learning to know where we are by watching the priest. And little by little, I’m learning bit’s of the Latin.

My point is, even when using the missal, there are several times during a High Mass when the Rosary can be prayed a decade at a time. During the censing of the altar is usually enough time to pray a decade. Standing in line for Communion, and the time it takes for all to receive after returning to the pew is an appropriate time to pray 3 or 4 decades. At a Low Mass, say on a weekday when perhaps only 15 are in the pews, the Rosary can be still be prayed. Pray a decade before Mass and any remaining after if need be.

A balance can be easily achieved.

 

[I_Believe]

The Rosary is a beautiful prayer, but my opinion I don’t think sitting during mass saying it is right. Before mass, after mass, yes, but during mass there is a lot going on we need to think about and pray about.

I think it sends the message there is nothing else going on here except me praying. I find it hard to believe but keep being told that at the TLM no participation required other than being there, pray the mass, say the Rosary, I can’t get it?

americancatholic.org/Messenger/Apr1998/Wiseman.asp#top
Rosary at Mass?

Hi Leroy, have you ever attended a TLM ? If not, I can understand your asking those questions. The OF is a much more audible praying of the Mass and certainly, with the frequent audible responses and prayers by the priest and laity, praying the Rosary during much of the OF Mass would seem out of place.

But on a Sunday, at a Mass with, say 200 laity, would you say that praying the Rosary from the moment you get in line for Communion until the priest has finished the post Communion rubrics is out of place, or doesn’t "seem right " ?

Would you concede that meditating on the Sorrowful Mysteries would be a very fitting and reverent way to remain focused on why we at Mass in the first place ?

It may not be a practice you embrace, but surely praying the Rosary with the appropriate intentions during this part of the Mass can’t be seen as a disassociation with the Liturgy ?

 

[ac_claire]

Are there a lot of repetitions when you pray at Mass? I hear people accuse of ‘vain repetitions’. Is that a problem?

I’m not sure I understand the question, dd. Do you mean while praying the Rosary at Mass or while praying the actual prayers of the Mass with the priest? In either case I’d say no, vain repetition isn’t a problem for me.

 

[ac_claire]

Why go to Mass if you’re not going to pay attention? It doesn’t make any sense to me. As a child I was taught that if you’re not paying attention you’re not at Mass.

Well certainly it’s best to pay attention. But praying the Rosary in the way that Leonius, I_Believe and myself are talking about at Mass is in no way “not paying attention.”

You’re meditating on what’s happening up there on the altar with the help of our Blessed Mother and the prayers of the Rosary. If you pray for the intentions of the Mass and unite your prayers with those of the priest, then you are still “praying the Mass,” using the Rosary.

 

[LilyM]

Well certainly it’s best to pay attention. But praying the Rosary in the way that Leonius, I_Believe and myself are talking about at Mass is in no way “not paying attention.”

You’re meditating on what’s happening up there on the altar with the help of our Blessed Mother and the prayers of the Rosary. If you pray for the intentions of the Mass and unite your prayers with those of the priest, then you are still “praying the Mass,” using the Rosary.

But it’s certainly far from following St Pius X’s exhortation that ‘…you must follow with eye, heart, and mouth all that happens on the altar.’

As I’ve said earlier, it’s not unacceptable, but you would do better to learn and pray the actual prayers of the Mass, if you can - even if you’re not keeping in time with the priest.

And I don’t think the Sorrowful Mysteries of the Rosary are appropriate at Communion time - we’re entering into the most intimate of Communions with Our Lord - it’s a time for joy - sorrow is NOT appropriate. As Our Lord said ‘the wedding guests do not fast (expressing sorrow) while the bridegroom is with them’ :yup:

 

[I_Believe]

But it’s certainly far from following St Pius X’s exhortation that ‘…you must follow with eye, heart, and mouth all that happens on the altar.’

As I’ve said earlier, it’s not unacceptable, but you would do better to learn and pray the actual prayers of the Mass, if you can - even if you’re not keeping in time with the priest.

And I don’t think the Sorrowful Mysteries of the Rosary are appropriate at Communion time - we’re entering into the most intimate of Communions with Our Lord - it’s a time for joy - sorrow is NOT appropriate. As Our Lord said ‘the wedding guests do not fast (expressing sorrow) while the bridegroom is with them’ :yup:

Lily, Of course it’s important to pray the Mass As St Pius tells, us. That’s why I quoted him.

But do you believe that praying a decade while the priest is censing the altar is out of place ? The priest prays a brief psalm passage, and we can pray it with him and still have time to pray a decade, or at least a meditation on a Mystery, while he continues censing the altar.

There is a balance to be found in uniting the Eucharistic Rosary with the Mass. Especially the TLM because there are simply more opportunities during the Mass.

I do agree, it should not replace the Prayer of the Mass itself.

 

[EasterJoy]

Lily, Of course it’s important to pray the Mass As St Pius tells, us. That’s why I quoted him.

But do you believe that praying a decade while the priest is censing the altar is out of place ? The priest prays a brief psalm passage, and we can pray it with him and still have time to pray a decade, or at least a meditation on a Mystery, while he continues censing the altar.

There is a balance to be found in uniting the Eucharistic Rosary with the Mass. Especially the TLM because there are simply more opportunities during the Mass.

I do agree, it should not replace the Prayer of the Mass itself.

I think the question is whether sacred silence is being served, neglected, abdicated: that is, whether interior recitation of the rosary has the effect of making one more or less present to that particular moment of the Mass. (I trust it goes without saying that one would never attempt to have an interior recitation going on on top of the audible recitation of liturgy during Mass, if one could help it.) There has to be time in a liturgy not just for talking to God, but for listening.

I would think it better to know and concentrate on the liturgy actually taking place, but if it is necessary to recite antiphons to the Blessed Virgin and meditate on the mysteries of the rosary in order to keep one’s mind and heart where they belong, then that is far better than letting them wander. The intention and the effect would be the most correct possible. OTOH, if the devotion is in any way taking the place of the liturgy, or if the person was capable of meditating directly on the words of the liturgy or even the profundity of the silent actions taking place, then *it seems to me *that it is less than ideal to do anything else instead, including something as salutory as reciting the Rosary.

This is in no way meant to put down the Rosary, but to express the opinion that interior silence that is still fullly present to the Mystery taking place would be the ideal. If one can attend to liturgy and nothing but liturgy, not shopping lists nor schedules nor the annoying way someone is clicking whatever-it-is-that-they-are-clicking (!?!) in their pew, then that would be the best. If not, then to be bridled back into the correct moment by the Rosary seems a sweet mode of self-correction, and in no way something that would displease God.

In other words, I would think interior recititation of parts of the Rosary during silent portions of the Mass could be understood and used as a very good method of self-correction, but perhaps not the summit of presence possible, not the ultimate we would strive for in liturgical participation. Does that make sense?

If you have to have noises going on all of the time in your mind, after all, how is that different than having a dependence on physical noise going on in your ears? Not that the Rosary is noise, but I hope you know what I mean. You want time in the Mass where you do nothing but* listen*.

 

[Leonius]

But it’s certainly far from following St Pius X’s exhortation that ‘…you must follow with eye, heart, and mouth all that happens on the altar.’

You can pray the Rosary and still follow what is happening on the altar, one is not exclusive to the other. When Pope St. Pius X says by mouth he does not mean that all the laity pray vocally all the prayers of the mass as takes place today in the ordinary form, he cannot mean that because that is not how Mass was said anywhere when he was Pope or over a thousand years before, such a thing was unheard of until the 1960’s.

In fact what is happening on the altar is exactly what is contained in the mysteries of the Rosary. Sorrowful mysteries are all about Christ’s sacrifice on cavalry, what happens on the altar is Christ’s sacrifice, do you see? When you approach God for communion you approach in reverence, in fear and trembling with awe at His awful majesty, this is God! Once you have received then there is Joy, it is at that point that you are joined to Christ not before. We are not protestants, the Catholic Mass is primarily a sacrifice, at Mass Christ sheds his blood for us, he suffers and dies on the cross so that our sins may be forgiven. At Mass you are kneeling at the foot of the Cross on cavalry looking upon Our Lord hanging on the cross with nails driven into His flesh and a crown of thorns on His head.

If you focus overly on the externals you can miss completely what actually happens at Mass on the altar supernaturally, miraculously. If you do not think of the sacrifice taking place on the Altar at Mass, if it does not bring to mind Christ dying on the cross for us, then you are not following the Mass as it is meant to be followed, and if praying the rosary does not bring this to mind then you are not praying the rosary as it is meant to be prayed.

Look at the picture of the Mass in my sig, is that what you see happening on the altar at Mass? If not you are not paying close enough attention interiorly with your heart.

 

[EasterJoy]

In fact what is happening on the altar is exactly what is contained in the mysteries of the Rosary.

I would take issue with putting it this way. The word “exactly” is out of place. What happens at Mass is not to be equalled by any other devotional practice. What happens at Mass does not need augmentation or improvement by any other devotional practice.

The Mass brings us to Calvary in fully-present reality, par excellence, in a way in which neither the Rosary nor the Stations of the Cross nor any devotional can match or add to.

If one allows oneself the private devotion of the Rosary during the liturgy of Mass–which is explicitly not a private act of worship–one should at least not imply that the Mass has any lack in it for which the Rosary is needed to compensate. If the Rosary is needed to compensate, it is because of a deficiency in the member of the faithful, not because of a deficiency in the Mass.

If you are implying that the Rosary addresses a deficiency in presence by the participant, and not a deficiency in the Mass itself, that is a reasonable point, particularly if the person does not fully understand or know the prayers and rituals of the Mass, or if that person is experiencing a problem such as spiritual dryness or outer distractions that make interior silence impossible.

Look at the picture of the Mass in my sig, is that what you see happening on the altar at Mass? If not you are not paying close enough attention interiorly with your heart.

Well, yes…so obviously a second devotional does not need to be overlaid on top of that. You don’t need to be singing a hymn or saying the Rosary. A profound interior silence is entirely appropriate. If a profound interior silence of adoration and awe cannot be attained, then other ways must be found to make oneself as present as possible. That is far better than just letting one’s mind wander around, and is nothing to apologize for, as long as the intent and effect is as you describe.

I say this as my opinion. It is my impression, though, that private devotions during Mass are not habits that are encouraged by the Church, so much as these devotions are allowed for those among the faithful who need them.

 

[porthos11]

I attend the traditional Mass, and I wouldn’t want to be distracted from *actively participating *in the beautiful liturgy by praying a private devotion.

With all respect to Pope Pius XII, I would never pray the Rosary or anything else at any Mass, traditional or otherwise. I want all my attention on the Sacrifice at hand.

 

[I_Believe]

I think the question is whether sacred silence is being served, neglected, abdicated: that is, whether interior recitation of the rosary has the effect of making one more or less present to that particular moment of the Mass. (I trust it goes without saying that one would never attempt to have an interior recitation going on on top of the audible recitation of liturgy during Mass, if one could help it.) There has to be time in a liturgy not just for talking to God, but for listening.

I would think it better to know and concentrate on the liturgy actually taking place, but if it is necessary to recite antiphons to the Blessed Virgin and meditate on the mysteries of the rosary in order to keep one’s mind and heart where they belong, then that is far better than letting them wander. The intention and the effect would be the most correct possible. OTOH, if the devotion is in any way taking the place of the liturgy, or if the person was capable of meditating directly on the words of the liturgy or even the profundity of the silent actions taking place, then *it seems to me *that it is less than ideal to do anything else instead, including something as salutory as reciting the Rosary.

This is in no way meant to put down the Rosary, but to express the opinion that interior silence that is still fullly present to the Mystery taking place would be the ideal. If one can attend to liturgy and nothing but liturgy, not shopping lists nor schedules nor the annoying way someone is clicking whatever-it-is-that-they-are-clicking (!?!) in their pew, then that would be the best. If not, then to be bridled back into the correct moment by the Rosary seems a sweet mode of self-correction, and in no way something that would displease God.

In other words, I would think interior recititation of parts of the Rosary during silent portions of the Mass could be understood and used as a very good method of self-correction, but perhaps not the summit of presence possible, not the ultimate we would strive for in liturgical participation. Does that make sense?

If you have to have noises going on all of the time in your mind, after all, how is that different than having a dependence on physical noise going on in your ears? Not that the Rosary is noise, but I hope you know what I mean. You want time in the Mass where you do nothing but* listen*.

Hi Joysong, we just got our power back on a couple of hours ago, so that’s why I’m slow to reply (and it was a very cold 35 hours )

I agree with all you say. There has to be a balance, and yes Sacred Silence is a good point to bring up. It makes sense, in the context you explained it, and I’ve never thought of that aspect of the Mass, or how it applies.

I must confess, I’ve never prayed the Rosary at the TLM, and only before or after the OF. I’m still learning the TLM, and it may be a while before I do so. I have meditated on a Mystery a few times during Communion, and a while after Mass. But as soon as the TLM becomes second nature for me, I’ll be praying the Eucharistic Rosary when moved to do so.

It’s not for everyone. And I think one should have a solid understanding of the Liturgy and it’s spirituality. We should all agree on that

I’d have probably thought it was strange for someone to suggest the Rosary during Mass if I hadn’t run across the mention of it in old prayer books. So I can see why some here have questioned it.