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alt101
Guest
if it is not mandatory or necessary to have devotion to Mary, how can your penance be to say the rosary?
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Della
Guest
The Rosary is not centered in Mary but in Jesus. When Mary is mentioned it is to meditate on the wonders God worked through her faith, obedience, and love. The central word of the Hail Mary is Jesus, and the first part of the Hail Mary is taken directly from Scripture with the second part a simple invocation for her intercession. The Mysteries of the Rosary are all part of the story of Jesus’ life, death, and resurrection.
Catholics don’t have to pray for Mary’s intercession but we must believe what the Church teaches about her, and one those teachings is that God has exalted her for her great faith, her heroic virtue, and her great love for God and neighbor. Certainly there is nothing objectionable about any of those things?
Catholics don’t have to pray for Mary’s intercession but we must believe what the Church teaches about her, and one those teachings is that God has exalted her for her great faith, her heroic virtue, and her great love for God and neighbor. Certainly there is nothing objectionable about any of those things?
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alt101
Guest
but the Rosary is a Marian devotion, is it not? i mean, all things in Catholicism are probably centered on Jesus, but i’m pretty sure that the Rosary even began with a Marian apparition… i could be wrong.
i’m just curious!
i’m just curious!
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LilyM
Guest
The Rosary began with illiterate people wanting to pray the 150 Psalms as the monks did. Because they couldn’t read, these were replaced with 150 Our Fathers, which later became 150 Hail Marys. An old name for it is ‘Our Lady’s Psalter’ for this reason. So it didn’t begin with an apparition, although apparitions have played a very important part in its spread.
If for whatever reason you object to any penance you can ask your priest to replace it with another. So no, there’s no obligation on you to say the Rosary if you don’t want to.
Priests will often say something like ‘do you know the Rosary’? Partly to make sure they’re not giving you something you can’t do, but probably also to give you a chance to say ‘I’d rather have something else for my penance.’
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Tantum_ergo
Guest
All “Marian” devotions ultimately center on Jesus, because Mary herself ultimately centers on Jesus.
But this is very hard for people to grasp, particularly those coming from an ‘either-or’ perspective which is very prevalent today for all our supposed ‘gray areas’, ‘tolerance’, ‘diversity’, etc.
For some, the idea of giving Mary (or indeed, any saint or even any living person) ANY sort of acknowledgment is anathema. After all, am not just as good as anybody else? (Meaning: Nobody is ‘better’ than I. Look at schools and their self-esteem hoopla the last 20 years or so --many schools scrapped honor societies, awards, etc. --unless every single student received exactly the same ‘notice’ as any other student–lest their little egos be trodden on.)
Further, if I were to acknowledge that Mary (or St. Paul) was a person who either did or said something especially good. . .I’m kind of ‘taking the credit away from God’ in the minds of some. These are the people who yammer that Mary was nothing but an incubator, or that she really was nothing to brag about because she somehow at point A (the Incarnation) was so lacking in free will that she could NOT say ‘No’ to God so deserves no personal credit for her fiat–but at some time AFTER the incarnation was so FULL of ‘free will’ that she freely ‘sinned’ against God and was rebuked by Him, etc. Go figure. Yet these same people usually consider themselves ‘saved’ by their recitation of the Sinners Prayer such that they are absolutely going to heaven no matter what. Thing is, since they are supposedly crediting GOD, they figure they can brag all they want. He ‘predestined them’. But apparently He couldn’t have ‘predestined’ Mary or St. Paul, again, go figure.
This is what happens when people refuse to accept authority. Everything then comes down to what ‘my pastor’ or ‘my reading of this Bible passage, taken out of context, read as if it referred to 21st century Waukegan, Illinois’ congregation at the Megachurch’
FEEL it ‘means’.
But this is very hard for people to grasp, particularly those coming from an ‘either-or’ perspective which is very prevalent today for all our supposed ‘gray areas’, ‘tolerance’, ‘diversity’, etc.
For some, the idea of giving Mary (or indeed, any saint or even any living person) ANY sort of acknowledgment is anathema. After all, am not just as good as anybody else? (Meaning: Nobody is ‘better’ than I. Look at schools and their self-esteem hoopla the last 20 years or so --many schools scrapped honor societies, awards, etc. --unless every single student received exactly the same ‘notice’ as any other student–lest their little egos be trodden on.)
Further, if I were to acknowledge that Mary (or St. Paul) was a person who either did or said something especially good. . .I’m kind of ‘taking the credit away from God’ in the minds of some. These are the people who yammer that Mary was nothing but an incubator, or that she really was nothing to brag about because she somehow at point A (the Incarnation) was so lacking in free will that she could NOT say ‘No’ to God so deserves no personal credit for her fiat–but at some time AFTER the incarnation was so FULL of ‘free will’ that she freely ‘sinned’ against God and was rebuked by Him, etc. Go figure. Yet these same people usually consider themselves ‘saved’ by their recitation of the Sinners Prayer such that they are absolutely going to heaven no matter what. Thing is, since they are supposedly crediting GOD, they figure they can brag all they want. He ‘predestined them’. But apparently He couldn’t have ‘predestined’ Mary or St. Paul, again, go figure.
This is what happens when people refuse to accept authority. Everything then comes down to what ‘my pastor’ or ‘my reading of this Bible passage, taken out of context, read as if it referred to 21st century Waukegan, Illinois’ congregation at the Megachurch’
FEEL it ‘means’.
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alt101
Guest
i thought about asking for some other penance, but i felt weird about trying to pick and choose my penance, you know??
plus i’d like to think that if nothing else, i try to be obedient!
but it makes me uneasy to say the rosary as my penance.
i guess i’ll just ask for a replacement for the rosary.
i’m sorry, T O, i’m kinda new to catholicism and i’m not really sure what you’re talking about… excuse my naivity!
but by reading your signature, i can see how you’d be put off by this thread.
plus i’d like to think that if nothing else, i try to be obedient!but it makes me uneasy to say the rosary as my penance.
i guess i’ll just ask for a replacement for the rosary.
i’m sorry, T O, i’m kinda new to catholicism and i’m not really sure what you’re talking about… excuse my naivity!
but by reading your signature, i can see how you’d be put off by this thread.
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LilyM
Guest
Well, there’s nothing wrong with asking for another penance - it’s not like another one would necessarily be easier, y’know? And not all devotions are for everyone.i thought about asking for some other penance, but i felt weird about trying to pick and choose my penance, you know??
but it makes me uneasy to say the rosary as my penance.
i guess i’ll just ask for a replacement for the rosary.
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jmcrae
Guest
Because that’s what the priest wants you do to for your penance. It doesn’t mean that from now on, you have to pray five decades of the Rosary every day for the rest of your life (which is what a devotion to the Rosary would entail).
I would just do it out of obedience to the priest, if it were me.
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Tantum_ergo
Guest
It might help too if in addition to being humbly obedient (itself pleasing to God) you focused on a particular set of mysteries for the rosary. Today being Wednesday, it’s traditional to pray the Glorious Mysteries, but in a spirit of humility, you might want to pray the Sorrowful (which focus on Christ’s agony in the garden, scourging at the pillar, crowning of thorns, carrying of the cross, and crucifixion). While you start the decade (the first, the agony) you use the prayer He gave us (Our Father). As you repeat your Hail Marys (the first half of which is found in Luke chapter 2, the second half expressing her role as ‘Theotokos’ or God-bearer, ending with a request to ‘pray for us sinners’ (a request made by many in the Bible as well, including St. Paul asking his friends for their prayers for him), now and at the hour of our death. . .focus on ‘being there’ with Christ. Remember how His friends couldn’t even stay awake with Him? Yet He loved and died for them, and for us. Continue with the second decade, thinking of how Christ was whipped for our sins. . .etc.
Maybe it will help. . .and God bless you.
Maybe it will help. . .and God bless you.
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Super_Grover
Guest
If you try the rosary, take note of your spiritual disposition afterward. There is a strengthening grace that some people feel accompanies the Rosary. A simplistic way of saying it is that it’s just easier to not sin.
The Rosary is very Christ-centered and Bible-centered. I like the idea of another poster to do the Sorrowful. Our prayer is relational, the Trinity is relational, and the Holy Family is relational. Delving into these mysteries of relationship can deepen prayer life. To the extent that you think about Mary, think about her relationship with her Son (what they both may have been thinking and feeling) and it may aid you in understanding your own relationship with her Son.
If you decide to try it, let us know what you think after you’ve had some time to evaluate it. You may find yourself very distracted at times, but don’t worry about that and just return your concentration to the mystery when you realize that you’ve drifted.
The Rosary is very Christ-centered and Bible-centered. I like the idea of another poster to do the Sorrowful. Our prayer is relational, the Trinity is relational, and the Holy Family is relational. Delving into these mysteries of relationship can deepen prayer life. To the extent that you think about Mary, think about her relationship with her Son (what they both may have been thinking and feeling) and it may aid you in understanding your own relationship with her Son.
If you decide to try it, let us know what you think after you’ve had some time to evaluate it. You may find yourself very distracted at times, but don’t worry about that and just return your concentration to the mystery when you realize that you’ve drifted.
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alt101
Guest
thanks everybody…
and thanks for being so supportive and informative…
while i will no doubt avoid the rosary till my next confession (this sunday) i know very well what my penance will be
and i’ll take these thoughts with me.
i’d rather just say the rosary and feel right about it. also, i’d like to think that if nothing else, i could at least be obedient about my penance!
i’ve got a long way to go, ppl…
and thanks for being so supportive and informative…
while i will no doubt avoid the rosary till my next confession (this sunday) i know very well what my penance will be
and i’ll take these thoughts with me.i’d rather just say the rosary and feel right about it. also, i’d like to think that if nothing else, i could at least be obedient about my penance!
i’ve got a long way to go, ppl…
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alt101
Guest
i hope i’m editing these before you guys catch all my typos lol
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Spirithound
Guest
I also like and would suggest the Sorrowful mysteries as penance. Perhaps the Joyful Mysteries include Mary the most, but the Sorrowful ones really are totally Christ-centred.
God bless.
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Della
Guest
I’ve bolded the sentence I think is the crux of the matter. So, I’ll ask: Why does praying the Rosary make you uneasy? I only ask so we can help you, not to try to force you to become a devotee of the Rosary.i thought about asking for some other penance, but i felt weird about trying to pick and choose my penance, you know??
but it makes me uneasy to say the rosary as my penance.
i guess i’ll just ask for a replacement for the rosary.
i’m sorry, T O, i’m kinda new to catholicism and i’m not really sure what you’re talking about… excuse my naivity!
but by reading your signature, i can see how you’d be put off by this thread.
I feel I may be of some help to you because I used to have the same uneasiness about praying “to” Mary, if that’s your issue.
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alt101
Guest
wow thanks for asking
i guess i just don’t see the point. when it’s my penance, i’m already actually telling all my sins to a priest, which i understand the benefits of that and i understand in persona christi, but i feel kinda like i’m being absolved of my sins from a priest, and then turn around and as my penance, say a rosary, which is a marian devotional… i’d rather just have some part of my forgiveness be straight to and from God…
as i’ve said, i’m somewhat new to catholicism and i’ve got some logic to work out yet. it is just a bit stifling to me. i realize it’s all for our benefit, but i just feel weird about it being so… standard. does that make sense? it’s not that i think it’s wrong… it’s hard for me to explain.
coming from a charismatic pentecostal background, i’ve got a lifetime of refiguring to do.
i guess i just don’t see the point. when it’s my penance, i’m already actually telling all my sins to a priest, which i understand the benefits of that and i understand in persona christi, but i feel kinda like i’m being absolved of my sins from a priest, and then turn around and as my penance, say a rosary, which is a marian devotional… i’d rather just have some part of my forgiveness be straight to and from God…
as i’ve said, i’m somewhat new to catholicism and i’ve got some logic to work out yet. it is just a bit stifling to me. i realize it’s all for our benefit, but i just feel weird about it being so… standard. does that make sense? it’s not that i think it’s wrong… it’s hard for me to explain.
coming from a charismatic pentecostal background, i’ve got a lifetime of refiguring to do.
S
Super_Grover
Guest
This book by Scott and Kimberly Hahn, Rome Sweet Home, might be helpful.
alibris.com/booksearch?title=rome+sweet+home
I pointed you to a used book site so that you could get it cheaper, but it’s available on Amazon or anywhere. As I recall, when they converted, Marian devotion was one of the more difficult hurdles for them too. As a cradle Catholic, I never had as hard a time with Mary “culturally”, but I did not always understand it. If you like the Hahn’s, you could next try Scott Hahn’s book Hail Holy Queen, a truly excellent book that shows the biblical support (both in the Old and New Testaments) for the Catholic position on Mary.
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Della
Guest
Ah. Well, penance isn’t “part of forgiveness” in the sense you mean here, you see. Penance is what we do to make up for the temporal punishment due to sin. You’ve been made right with God when you were absolved of your sins. By praying a Rosary (or parts of it) you are making right what you owe to your fellow man for the destruction your sins did to the Body of Christ. Mary is very much a part of that. She prays for us sinners all the time for this very purpose. This is why she urges us pray the Rosary at so many of her apparitions. She isn’t asking for glory for herself, but for us to pray in humility to make up for the damage we have done to others. Does that make sense?
I completely understand what you’re saying. I went through the same sort of thing, too. It takes some time to become “accustomed” to a new world view–a new way of thinking about the Body of Christ. Moving from the “Lone Ranger” type of belief system to thinking of ourselves as a part of a larger whole–a Body instead of each one of us being our own head, so to speak.
Yes. I’ve been Catholic for 20 years now and I’m still “catching up” on a lot of things. But, that’s all right. God grants us the grace to understand things as we go along. Ask Mary to help you–simply and in sincerity of heart, and she will do so.
Mary’s really a great friend to have. Everything she does is willed by God not by herself, so you can rest assured that she isn’t going to lead you away from God. Not at all. In fact, she wants to and will lead you closer to her Son in ways you would not have imagined possible.
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alt101
Guest
u guys are so awesome.
maybe i should start addressing my questions to you, Della
lol
i’ll definitely check those books out too…
thanks alot!
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Della
Guest
You’re welcome. All I’ve been doing is relating some information to you within your situation. It’s just great that some of my poor words have been helpful to you, thank God.
u guys are so awesome.
maybe i should start addressing my questions to you, Della
lol
i’ll definitely check those books out too…
thanks alot!
Z
Zooey
Guest
OK, I have to preface this, by saying that I am the Methodist-In-Residence, so what do I know? But I am also a devotee of the rosary (I even make them!)…i thought about asking for some other penance, but i felt weird about trying to pick and choose my penance, you know??
but it makes me uneasy to say the rosary as my penance.
i guess i’ll just ask for a replacement for the rosary.
i’m sorry, T O, i’m kinda new to catholicism and i’m not really sure what you’re talking about… excuse my naivity!
but by reading your signature, i can see how you’d be put off by this thread.
Anyhow, I have the feeling that the idea was to get you to spend some time in prayer & meditation about the life of Christ…because the rosary does take time, you see. (Yes, I’m
reading priests’ minds now… ) And it is a meditation…you don’t just fly through it mindlessly (at least you shouldn’t!).So maybe, if you look at it that way, instead of as this “strange idea that has nothing to do with me right now”, it might help to understand it better.
So, anyhow, the reason for jumping in here at all, was to say, that there is a terrific Scriptural Rosary over at Rosary Army, which gives you a “hook” for your thoughts as you pray, which maybe might be meaningful to someone coming from your religious background…
Try this: rosaryarmy.com/?page_id=583
Just click on “prayers” at the top, and you can choose any set of the mysteries you wish…There is also a good article on “Why Catholics & Other Christians Pray the Rosary”.
I personally have printed out all the sets of mysteries from this, it is so helpful because it gets you really thinking about the Gospel story.
HTH!!
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