C
CentralFLJames
Guest
Not sure if this is the best place to post this question. Please move it to a new area if its better suited in another category.
Got into a big debate with a supposedly Catholics lay person who makes rosaries. He’s pushing them on facebook which I don’t have a problem with. But the one he’s pushing to a baby-boomer audience to play into the sentimental culture is a rosary with hippy peace symbols in the place of the end of decade glory-be and Our-Father beads. I don’t think he intends any nefarious disrespect but I think he’s very naive and pretty liberal about the underlying symbolic message it would send secularists and those who would just love to see “dumb” Christians being duped into pushing secular-ideology.
I told him I though this was highly inappropriate given that the peace symbol from the 60s was associated with the free-love hippy movement that was very pagan in nature and had nothing whatsoever to do with Christianity. The “peace” was a fawning sort of faux peace of appeasement to weaken US resolve to stand up to the USSR communist expansion and originated out of symbology invented by atheist members of a British organization that was associated with a Fabian-Socialist society. Bertrand Russell (1872 - 1970), a philosopher, historian, mathematician, and a member of the Direct Action Committee against Nuclear War, supported Holtom’s claim and aggressively promoted the arms down symbol (a sign of defeat and despair - luciferian in concept).
He’s got a liberal supporter who’s getting very belligerent with me. So I reminded him that rosary’s are normally blessed and should follow the traditional forms. I also cited him this cc teaching:
“Sacred objects, set aside for divine worship by dedication or blessing, are to be treated with reverence. They are not to be made over to secular or inappropriate use, even though they may belong to private persons” (CIC 1171).
I told him that in my opinion most people associate the peace sign with the flower-child/hippy movement and that 90%+ of these people would support abortion on demand, casual non-committal sex, homosexual marriage and drugs etc. and that bad association would make it entirely unsuitable symbology for a rosary. I also mentioned that is competes with the cross and twist and distorts it with a competing iconic form. The peace symbol is just NOT part of the Christian lexicon and is emblematic more of anarchy and civil disobedience than it is any sort of Christian spiritual peace or teaching.
His supporter used a childish sort of argument: “well i don’t need a rosary to say the rosary - I can count on my fingers or toes”. I said this is true and that is entirely suitable since no one recognizes your fingers and toes as a rosary. He then used that as a way to say “ok then its settled - you just admitted it doesn’t matter what I use”. I then told him to use common sense - would he replace the crucifix with a cocker-spaniel figurine (he’s a dog lover) and replace the decade beads with plastic dog bones? He said ‘sure why not’?
Anyway - would appreciate any thoughts on this. Is there a specific reference from an ecclesial source that specifies acceptable forms and materials for the rosary or another CC reference? I know that there’s all kinds of things used for beads ranging from glass, metal, gems, plain wood, plastic, palm-seeds etc. but they have generally always traditionally been “beads” or cubes with no other markings, adornments or symbology - certainly no symbology not directly associated with Christianity.
fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/q77/s720x720/1016170_10201363681076255_1382420949_n.jpg
Got into a big debate with a supposedly Catholics lay person who makes rosaries. He’s pushing them on facebook which I don’t have a problem with. But the one he’s pushing to a baby-boomer audience to play into the sentimental culture is a rosary with hippy peace symbols in the place of the end of decade glory-be and Our-Father beads. I don’t think he intends any nefarious disrespect but I think he’s very naive and pretty liberal about the underlying symbolic message it would send secularists and those who would just love to see “dumb” Christians being duped into pushing secular-ideology.
I told him I though this was highly inappropriate given that the peace symbol from the 60s was associated with the free-love hippy movement that was very pagan in nature and had nothing whatsoever to do with Christianity. The “peace” was a fawning sort of faux peace of appeasement to weaken US resolve to stand up to the USSR communist expansion and originated out of symbology invented by atheist members of a British organization that was associated with a Fabian-Socialist society. Bertrand Russell (1872 - 1970), a philosopher, historian, mathematician, and a member of the Direct Action Committee against Nuclear War, supported Holtom’s claim and aggressively promoted the arms down symbol (a sign of defeat and despair - luciferian in concept).
He’s got a liberal supporter who’s getting very belligerent with me. So I reminded him that rosary’s are normally blessed and should follow the traditional forms. I also cited him this cc teaching:
“Sacred objects, set aside for divine worship by dedication or blessing, are to be treated with reverence. They are not to be made over to secular or inappropriate use, even though they may belong to private persons” (CIC 1171).
I told him that in my opinion most people associate the peace sign with the flower-child/hippy movement and that 90%+ of these people would support abortion on demand, casual non-committal sex, homosexual marriage and drugs etc. and that bad association would make it entirely unsuitable symbology for a rosary. I also mentioned that is competes with the cross and twist and distorts it with a competing iconic form. The peace symbol is just NOT part of the Christian lexicon and is emblematic more of anarchy and civil disobedience than it is any sort of Christian spiritual peace or teaching.
His supporter used a childish sort of argument: “well i don’t need a rosary to say the rosary - I can count on my fingers or toes”. I said this is true and that is entirely suitable since no one recognizes your fingers and toes as a rosary. He then used that as a way to say “ok then its settled - you just admitted it doesn’t matter what I use”. I then told him to use common sense - would he replace the crucifix with a cocker-spaniel figurine (he’s a dog lover) and replace the decade beads with plastic dog bones? He said ‘sure why not’?
Anyway - would appreciate any thoughts on this. Is there a specific reference from an ecclesial source that specifies acceptable forms and materials for the rosary or another CC reference? I know that there’s all kinds of things used for beads ranging from glass, metal, gems, plain wood, plastic, palm-seeds etc. but they have generally always traditionally been “beads” or cubes with no other markings, adornments or symbology - certainly no symbology not directly associated with Christianity.
fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/q77/s720x720/1016170_10201363681076255_1382420949_n.jpg
