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Shoreguy1105
Guest
Do Easter Catholics pray the Rosary? If not, do they have another similar prayer to Our Blessed Mother similar to the Rosary?
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aussie_melkite
Guest
some of the Latinized Eastern Catholics do. however in the east a prayer called the “Akathist hymn to the Mother of God” is the prayer that “should” be used instead of the Rosay its a liturgial poem very similar to the Litanies used in the Western Church (in fact some belive the Akathist hymn is the basis of the Western Litany of the BVM)
The Akathist hymn i belive also carries the same indulgiances as the Rosary does.
here is a link to the Akathist hymn:
byzantines.net/liturgy/akathist.htm
there however was an atempt to moderify the Western Rosary to Byzaintine useage but a bunch of Ukranian Greek Catholic Priest’s, I believe some Orthdox use a similar prayer called “The rule of the Mother of God”
heres a link to the “Byzantine Rosary”:
angelfire.com/pa3/OldWorldBasic/Rosary.htm
The Akathist hymn i belive also carries the same indulgiances as the Rosary does.
here is a link to the Akathist hymn:
byzantines.net/liturgy/akathist.htm
there however was an atempt to moderify the Western Rosary to Byzaintine useage but a bunch of Ukranian Greek Catholic Priest’s, I believe some Orthdox use a similar prayer called “The rule of the Mother of God”
heres a link to the “Byzantine Rosary”:
angelfire.com/pa3/OldWorldBasic/Rosary.htm
C
Chaldean_Rite
Guest
Yes, Eastern Catholics pray it. The Rosary of the Blessed Mother is a universal prayer of the Church.Do Easter Catholics pray the Rosary? If not, do they have another similar prayer to Our Blessed Mother similar to the Rosary?
join the Rosary Confraternity
D
Deacon_Lance
Guest
Chaldean Rite,Yes, Eastern Catholics pray it. The Rosary of the Blessed Mother is a universal prayer of the Church.
join the Rosary Confraternity
Let preface my coments by saying that I have no objection to the Rosary or those that pray it.
How do you arrive at the conclusion that the Rosary is a universal prayer of the Church? There are a few prayers of Apostolic lineage that are used by every sui iuris Church in the Catholic Church, the Our Father, the Nicene Creed, the Gloria, and a few others but every prayer has its lineage. The Rosary is the product of the Latin Church of the Middle Ages. Its form and content are regulated by the liturgical books of the Latin Church. Certainly anyone can pray it, but it is a prayer form produced by and regulated by the Latin Church, just as the Akathist is a form produced by and regulated by the Byzantine Church.
Fr. Deacon Lance
T
Tidus
Guest
If it is good enough for men like Andrew Sheptytsky it is good enough for me
C
Chaldean_Rite
Guest
Hello Fr. Deacon Lance,Chaldean Rite,
Let preface my coments by saying that I have no objection to the Rosary or those that pray it.
How do you arrive at the conclusion that the Rosary is a universal prayer of the Church? There are a few prayers of Apostolic lineage that are used by every sui iuris Church in the Catholic Church, the Our Father, the Nicene Creed, the Gloria, and a few others but every prayer has its lineage. The Rosary is the product of the Latin Church of the Middle Ages. Its form and content are regulated by the liturgical books of the Latin Church. Certainly anyone can pray it, but it is a prayer form produced by and regulated by the Latin Church, just as the Akathist is a form produced by and regulated by the Byzantine Church.
Fr. Deacon Lance
Peace be to you.
Its a universal prayer because it comes from Heaven. Not only that, there are a handful of encyclicals on it that urge it to be prayed addressed to the entire Church.
APOSTOLIC LETTER
- ROSARIUM VIRGINIS MARIAE*
OF THE SUPREME PONTIFF
JOHN PAUL II
TO THE BISHOPS, CLERGY
AND FAITHFUL
ON THE MOST HOLY ROSARY
- The Rosary of the Virgin Mary, which gradually took form in the second millennium under the guidance of the Spirit of God, is a prayer loved by countless Saints and encouraged by the Magisterium.
ENCYCLICAL OF POPE PIUS XII
ON RECITING THE ROSARY
TO OUR VENERABLE BRETHREN, PATRIARCHS, PRIMATES,
ARCHBISHOPS, BISHIOPS, AND OTHER ORDINARIES
HAVING PEACE AND COMMUNION WITH THE APOSTOLIC SEE
- But it is above all in the bosom of the family that We desire the custom of the Holy Rosary to be everywhere adopted, religiously preserved, and ever more intensely practiced. In vain is a remedy sought for the wavering fate of civil life, if the family, the principle and foundation of the human community, is not fashioned after the pattern of the Gospel.
ENCYCLICAL OF POPE LEO XIII
ON THE ROSARY
*To Our Venerable Brethren, the Patriarchs, Primates, *
- Archbishops, Bishops, and other Local Ordinaries having *
- Peace and Communion with the Apostolic See.*
- Impelled, therefore, by a constant desire that Christians should ever be convinced of the efficacy and dignity of the Rosary of Our Lady, We first of all pointed out that the origin of this form of prayer is divine rather than human, showing it to be an admirable garland woven from the Angelic Salutation, together with the Lord’s Prayer, joined to meditation, and that this form of prayer was most powerful and particularly efficacious for attaining eternal life
J
JMJ_coder
Guest
Well, the easy answer is because the Popes have told me.How do you arrive at the conclusion that the Rosary is a universal prayer of the Church?
Pope Leo XIII: “…the recitation of the Rosary, or “Psalter of Our Lady,” as it has been styled by some of the Popes, is also in a way public, constant, and universal.” (Augustissimae Virginis Mariae, 7)
Pope John XXIII: “In this way the rosary of Mary assumes the dignity of a great public and universal prayer, to express the ordinary and extraordinary needs of Holy Church, of the nations and of the whole world.” (Il Religioso Convegno)
J
JMJ_coder
Guest
Yes, many Eastern Catholics pray the Rosary. My local Romanian Byzantine Church recites the Rosary, lead by Father, before their Sunday Liturgy.
Some may not like it due to some notion of latinizations, but I don’t see a problem with Eastern Catholics reciting the Rosary anymore than Latin Catholics venerating Icons. In both cases, it is a universal expression of the faith.
Some may not like it due to some notion of latinizations, but I don’t see a problem with Eastern Catholics reciting the Rosary anymore than Latin Catholics venerating Icons. In both cases, it is a universal expression of the faith.
D
Deacon_Lance
Guest
Chaldean Rite,
No Catholic is required to belive in apparitions. There are also a handful of encyclicals that encourage Eastern Catholics to return to their own traditions:
"Since, in fact, we believe that the venerable and ancient tradition of the Eastern Churches is an integral part of the heritage of Christ’s Church, the first need for Catholics is to be familiar with that tradition, so as to be nourished by it and to encourage the process of unity in the best way possible for each…
It has been stressed several times that the full union of the Catholic Eastern Churches with the Church of Rome which has already been achieved must not imply a diminished awareness of their own authenticity and originality.(58) Wherever this occurred, the Second Vatican Council has urged them to rediscover their full identity…"(Pope John Paul II Orientale Lumen).
“All members of the Eastern Rite should know and be convinced that they can and should always preserve their legitimate liturgical rite and their established way of life, and that these may not be altered except to obtain for themselves an organic improvement. All these, then, must be observed by the members of the Eastern rites themselves. Besides, they should attain to on ever greater knowledge and a more exact use of them, and, if in their regard they have fallen short owing to contingencies of times and persons, they should take steps to return to their ancestral traditions.”(Vatican II Decree on Eastern Catholic Churches).
Again this is not say that I think Eastern Catholics should not say the Rosary but it should not displace our own ancient forms of honoring the Theotokos.
Fr. Deacon Lance
No Catholic is required to belive in apparitions. There are also a handful of encyclicals that encourage Eastern Catholics to return to their own traditions:
"Since, in fact, we believe that the venerable and ancient tradition of the Eastern Churches is an integral part of the heritage of Christ’s Church, the first need for Catholics is to be familiar with that tradition, so as to be nourished by it and to encourage the process of unity in the best way possible for each…
It has been stressed several times that the full union of the Catholic Eastern Churches with the Church of Rome which has already been achieved must not imply a diminished awareness of their own authenticity and originality.(58) Wherever this occurred, the Second Vatican Council has urged them to rediscover their full identity…"(Pope John Paul II Orientale Lumen).
“All members of the Eastern Rite should know and be convinced that they can and should always preserve their legitimate liturgical rite and their established way of life, and that these may not be altered except to obtain for themselves an organic improvement. All these, then, must be observed by the members of the Eastern rites themselves. Besides, they should attain to on ever greater knowledge and a more exact use of them, and, if in their regard they have fallen short owing to contingencies of times and persons, they should take steps to return to their ancestral traditions.”(Vatican II Decree on Eastern Catholic Churches).
Again this is not say that I think Eastern Catholics should not say the Rosary but it should not displace our own ancient forms of honoring the Theotokos.
Fr. Deacon Lance
D
Deacon_Lance
Guest
Do you also pray the Akathist before Liturgy? This is what I am talking about. Nothing wrong with praying the Rosary as long as it does not displace our own traditions.Yes, many Eastern Catholics pray the Rosary. My local Romanian Byzantine Church recites the Rosary, lead by Father, before their Sunday Liturgy.
Some may not like it due to some notion of latinizations, but I don’t see a problem with Eastern Catholics reciting the Rosary anymore than Latin Catholics venerating Icons. In both cases, it is a universal expression of the faith.
Fr. Deacon Lance
D
Deacon_Lance
Guest
CELEBRATION OF THE AKATHIST HYMN IN THE BASILICA OF SAINT MARY MAJOR
DECEMBER 8, 2000
At 5 P.M., after the homage to the statue of the Immaculate in the Piazza de Spagna, the Pope reentered the Patriarchal Basilica of Saint Mary Major for the celebration, in the Holy Year, of the Akathist Hymn in the Byzantine rite.
The celebration was presided over by the Holy Father, with the participation of representatives of various Byzantine Catholic Churches. The Akathist Hymn was sung in the Greek, Old Slavonic, Hungarian, Ukrainian, Romanian and Arabic tongues.
At the end of the singing of the 24 stanzas of which the Akathist hymn is composed, John Paul II gave the following homily:
"Mary “is an icon of the Church, the symbol and anticipation of humanity transfigured by grace, the model and the unfailing hope for all those who direct their steps towards the heavenly Jerusalem.” (Ap. Let. Orientale Lumen, 6)
Most Dear Brothers and Sisters! Behold yourselves gathered int the Basilica which the Roman people, in the aftermath of the Council of Ephesus, have dedicated with devote fervor to the Holy Virgin Mary. This evening the Byzantine liturgical tradition celebrates the first Vespers of the Conception of Saint Anne, while the Latin liturgy renders praise to the Immaculate Conception of the Mother of God.
I express my lively pleasure for the participation of a crown of brother and sisters, who are here with us this evening in representation of the Eastern Catholic Churches. I address my cordial welcome to all the bishops of the Byzantine Rite present in this Basilica together with their faithful.
This evening, we are all pervaded with an inward joy, the joy of rendering praise to Mary with the Akathist Hymn, so dear to the Eastern tradition. It is a canticle totally centered on Christ, contemplated in the light of His Virgin Mother. For a full 144 times, this hymn invites us to renew to Mary the greeting of the Archangel Gabriel: “Ave Maria!”
We have retraced the stages of her existence and rendered praise for the wonders fulfilled in her by the Omnipotent: from the virginal conception, beginning of the new creation, to her divine maternity, to her sharing in the mission of her Son, especially in His suffering, death and resurrection.
Mother of the risen Lord and Mother of the Church, Mary precedes us and leads us to the authentic knowledge of God and to the encounter with the Redeemer. She points out to us the way and shows us her Son. In celebrating her with joy and gratitude, we honor the holiness of God, Whose mercy has done marvels in His humble handmaid. We salute her with the title of “Full of grace” and implore her intercession for all the children of the Church who with this Akathist Hymn celebrate her glory.
She guides us to contemplate, in the coming Christmas, the mystery of God made man for our salvation!
DECEMBER 8, 2000
At 5 P.M., after the homage to the statue of the Immaculate in the Piazza de Spagna, the Pope reentered the Patriarchal Basilica of Saint Mary Major for the celebration, in the Holy Year, of the Akathist Hymn in the Byzantine rite.
The celebration was presided over by the Holy Father, with the participation of representatives of various Byzantine Catholic Churches. The Akathist Hymn was sung in the Greek, Old Slavonic, Hungarian, Ukrainian, Romanian and Arabic tongues.
At the end of the singing of the 24 stanzas of which the Akathist hymn is composed, John Paul II gave the following homily:
"Mary “is an icon of the Church, the symbol and anticipation of humanity transfigured by grace, the model and the unfailing hope for all those who direct their steps towards the heavenly Jerusalem.” (Ap. Let. Orientale Lumen, 6)
Most Dear Brothers and Sisters! Behold yourselves gathered int the Basilica which the Roman people, in the aftermath of the Council of Ephesus, have dedicated with devote fervor to the Holy Virgin Mary. This evening the Byzantine liturgical tradition celebrates the first Vespers of the Conception of Saint Anne, while the Latin liturgy renders praise to the Immaculate Conception of the Mother of God.
I express my lively pleasure for the participation of a crown of brother and sisters, who are here with us this evening in representation of the Eastern Catholic Churches. I address my cordial welcome to all the bishops of the Byzantine Rite present in this Basilica together with their faithful.
This evening, we are all pervaded with an inward joy, the joy of rendering praise to Mary with the Akathist Hymn, so dear to the Eastern tradition. It is a canticle totally centered on Christ, contemplated in the light of His Virgin Mother. For a full 144 times, this hymn invites us to renew to Mary the greeting of the Archangel Gabriel: “Ave Maria!”
We have retraced the stages of her existence and rendered praise for the wonders fulfilled in her by the Omnipotent: from the virginal conception, beginning of the new creation, to her divine maternity, to her sharing in the mission of her Son, especially in His suffering, death and resurrection.
Mother of the risen Lord and Mother of the Church, Mary precedes us and leads us to the authentic knowledge of God and to the encounter with the Redeemer. She points out to us the way and shows us her Son. In celebrating her with joy and gratitude, we honor the holiness of God, Whose mercy has done marvels in His humble handmaid. We salute her with the title of “Full of grace” and implore her intercession for all the children of the Church who with this Akathist Hymn celebrate her glory.
She guides us to contemplate, in the coming Christmas, the mystery of God made man for our salvation!
J
JMJ_coder
Guest
I myself am not Eastern Catholic by rite. I do attend Eastern Liturgy during off weeks (when I don’t sing in choir). I don’t believe that they have the Akathist - or Matins - before the Liturgy. Though I did once go to a Moleben (sp?) for the Blessed Mother at the local Byzantine Monastery (Nuns) for a East-West discussion and prayer group. One of these days, hopefully, I get to go to an Akathist.Do you also pray the Akathist before Liturgy? This is what I am talking about. Nothing wrong with praying the Rosary as long as it does not displace our own traditions.
Fr. Deacon Lance
Do you know how long an Akathist takes - just looking over the text once, I got the impression that it is a substantial investment in time - the Rosary takes 15-30 minutes. Not that time is overly important, but poor Father has such a dwindling congregation (a growing problem for all ethnic parishes). And also, a couple of his regulars are traditionalist Latin Catholics who attend his Liturgy rather than join the SSPX.
J
JMJ_coder
Guest
Yes, I don’t think there should be any turmoil in the West partaking of the spiritual riches of the East or the East likewise partaking of the spiritual riches of the West.CELEBRATION OF THE AKATHIST HYMN IN THE BASILICA OF SAINT MARY MAJOR
DECEMBER 8, 2000
D
Deacon_Lance
Guest
“Do you know how long an Akathist takes - just looking over the text once, I got the impression that it is a substantial investment in time - the Rosary takes 15-30 minutes.”
The full Akathist takes 45 minutes to 1 hour. However, the Akathist is divided in 4 parts (In Lent, one part is taken with Compline the first 4 Fridays and the whole hymn is sung at Compline on the 5th Friday or Matins on Akathistos Saturday) and it would be very easy to take on part before the Liturgy and it would take about 15-20 minutes.
Fr. Deacon Lance
The full Akathist takes 45 minutes to 1 hour. However, the Akathist is divided in 4 parts (In Lent, one part is taken with Compline the first 4 Fridays and the whole hymn is sung at Compline on the 5th Friday or Matins on Akathistos Saturday) and it would be very easy to take on part before the Liturgy and it would take about 15-20 minutes.
Fr. Deacon Lance
B
bpbasilphx
Guest
St. Seraphim of Sarov called the recititation of 150 Angelic Salulations the Prayer Rule of the Theotokos.
A
aussie_melkite
Guest
if anyhting is going to be prayed publicly b4 the Divine Liturgy it sould be the service of Matins…not the Rosary.
The Rosary is a beautiful prayer, and is one of the tresures of the LATIN CHURCH (and on a perosnal note i pray it privatly at least once a week)…but we too have beautiful prayers and devotions to the Mother God, and ours are just as vernerable and just as pleasing to God and the Theotokos as Latin ones.
Latin devotions should not replace Eastern ones in Public worship (in private u can pray what ever you like)
The Rosary is a beautiful prayer, and is one of the tresures of the LATIN CHURCH (and on a perosnal note i pray it privatly at least once a week)…but we too have beautiful prayers and devotions to the Mother God, and ours are just as vernerable and just as pleasing to God and the Theotokos as Latin ones.
Latin devotions should not replace Eastern ones in Public worship (in private u can pray what ever you like)
B
bpbasilphx
Guest
if anyhting is going to be prayed publicly b4 the Divine Liturgy it sould be the service of Matins…not the Rosary.
**Or maybe the Little Hours (1, 3, 6).
Matins might be a bit involved for inexperienced Cantors and Readers.**
**Or maybe the Little Hours (1, 3, 6).
Matins might be a bit involved for inexperienced Cantors and Readers.**
A
aussie_melkite
Guest
your right…let me re-phraseif anyhting is going to be prayed publicly b4 the Divine Liturgy it sould be the service of Matins…not the Rosary.
**Or maybe the Little Hours (1, 3, 6).
Matins might be a bit involved for inexperienced Cantors and Readers.**
"if anything is going to be prayed publicly b4 the Divine Liturgy it should be the Liturgy of the Hours.
C
Chaldean_Rite
Guest
Sorry Aussie but you are an Orthodox and must have missed the beginning of this thread. Wherever the origins are, its now a prayer of the Church universal.if anyhting is going to be prayed publicly b4 the Divine Liturgy it sould be the service of Matins…not the Rosary.
The Rosary is a beautiful prayer, and is one of the tresures of the LATIN CHURCH (and on a perosnal note i pray it privatly at least once a week)…but we too have beautiful prayers and devotions to the Mother God, and ours are just as vernerable and just as pleasing to God and the Theotokos as Latin ones.
Latin devotions should not replace Eastern ones in Public worship (in private u can pray what ever you like)
M
malphono
Guest
I will not argue about that, but it’s also true that the origins of the Rosary are in the Roman (Latin) Church from whence it spread to the East. There is nothing “wrong” with praying the Rosary in the East, but at the same time it really should not supercede our own proper traditions, at least not in public celebration. Which seems to echo Deacon Lance in post #9:Sorry Aussie but you are an Orthodox and must have missed the beginning of this thread. Wherever the origins are, its now a prayer of the Church universal.
Deacon Lance:
(although I would have said Yoldat Aloho at the end, but that’s just me and it’s the same thing anyway).Again this is not say that I think Eastern Catholics should not say the Rosary but it should not displace our own ancient forms of honoring the Theotokos.
To me, though, the more important issue is praying the Rosary in church. Even in the Roman Church, the Rosary is more of a “private prayer” (even when done en groupe in a family setting, or among a gathering of neighbors, etc) than it is a public one. I see it as even more so when done in the East.
Now, as to whether it should be done publically (and in an organized way) in church before the DL (or Qourbono/Qourbana/Qourobo/etc, as the case may be, but for the purpose of economy here I’ll stick with DL) I think it depends on the particular community. In an urban setting in the US, we’re lucky to have people actually show up on time for DL itself, never mind something that precedes it. In that case, if the few “early birds” want to pray a Rosary, no real problem. But where the faithful are disposed to arriving in time for a service to precede the DL, I think it should be something from our own respective traditions. They can always say the Rosary at home.
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