Rosary

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malphono said:
To me, though, the more important issue is praying the Rosary in church. Even in the Roman Church, the Rosary is more of a “private prayer” (even when done en groupe in a family setting, or among a gathering of neighbors, etc) than it is a public one. I see it as even more so when done in the East.
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This depends on where you are.

It is VERY common for the Rosary to be said by all the women in the village, with a scattering of men in Poland, Hungary, Slovakia, Czechia and Ukraine; both Roman Catholics and Eastern Catholics. It’s said everyday at the end of the day when the 6pm Angelus is rung. Yes, people in the villages still stop what they’re doing and pray the Angelus both Western and Eastern.

I asked my cousin how difficult it was during the Communist times when there were forced to go to the Orthodox church and she said they always had the Rosary that they could say together when walking down the road or working the fields or wherever… she said it was one of the things they kept them Catholic… :byzsoc:
 
Chaldean_Rite said:
Sorry Aussie but you are an Orthodox and must have missed the beginning of this thread. Wherever the origins are, its now a prayer of the Church universal.
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Im an Eastern Catholic actually.

and i didnt miss the begiing of the thread I am just responnding to someonewho said they prayed the rosry b4 the divine liturgy.

The Rosary is not a Prayer of the church Universal(though it could be argued that all prayers regurdless of rite belong to evey catholic)…the Akathist hymn is A. older and B. carries the same indulgances as the Rosary. why replace a verable tradition of an eastern church 4 that of a latin one…the Rosary is a western prayer beautiful and great…but it should not replace our own prayers…ultimatly what u really saying is that Latin prayers are superior to our own…this is the type of attitude that JP2 and Benedict have been trying to root out of the church.
 
Chaldean_Rite said:
Sorry Aussie but you are an Orthodox and must have missed the beginning of this thread. Wherever the origins are, its now a prayer of the Church universal.
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Melkites are Catholics. Byzantine Rite Melkite Greek Catholic Church Sui Iuris; the parallel orthodox are the Antiochian Orthodox.

And while the Rosary may be allowed for the whole of the Church, the Dominican/Marian Rosary is not normative for the majority of the Byzantines, and is not suited for public use in the Eastern Churches as a replacement for the hours; that is the role that it was being used for, a practice that Vatican II called into question.
 
Patchunky said:
This depends on where you are.

It is VERY common for the Rosary to be said by all the women in the village, with a scattering of men in Poland, Hungary, Slovakia, Czechia and Ukraine; both Roman Catholics and Eastern Catholics. It’s said everyday at the end of the day when the 6pm Angelus is rung. Yes, people in the villages still stop what they’re doing and pray the Angelus both Western and Eastern.

I asked my cousin how difficult it was during the Communist times when there were forced to go to the Orthodox church and she said they always had the Rosary that they could say together when walking down the road or working the fields or wherever… she said it was one of the things they kept them Catholic…
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When I said “… in church” I was speaking to the public recitation of the Rosary in the context of a service in church. As I look back at it now, I probably could have worded things a bit more clearly, and I apologize for any confusion. Your observation regarding the custom in Slavic villages is very edifying and truly falls in with the “gathering of neighbors” that I mentioned. Looks like we’re really saying the same thing. 👍
 
Aramis said:
Melkites are Catholics. Byzantine Rite Melkite Greek Catholic Church Sui Iuris; the parallel orthodox are the Antiochian Orthodox.

x x x .
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I think everybody here now understands that a “Melkite” or a “Greek Melkite” generally refers to a Catholic.

However, there are some posters who use the term “Melkite” equivocally. I know someone in another forum who describes himself as “Melkite Orthodox,” having changed Church affiliation from the Melkite Greek Catholic Church to the Antiochan (Greek)Orthodox Church.

In the case of “aussie_melkite,” he/she puts his/her religious affiliation as “Greek Orthodox.” So, “Chaldean Rite” should be correct in assuming that he/she is, indeed, Orthodox.
 
Amadeus said:
I think everybody here now understands that a “Melkite” or a “Greek Melkite” generally refers to a Catholic.

However, there are some posters who use the term “Melkite” equivocally. I know someone in another forum who describes himself as “Melkite Orthodox,” having changed Church affiliation from the Melkite Greek Catholic Church to the Antiochan (Greek)Orthodox Church.

In the case of “aussie_melkite,” he/she puts his/her religious affiliation as “Greek Orthodox.” So, “Chaldean Rite” should be correct in assuming that he/she is, indeed, Orthodox.
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It said greek catholic, last several times I checked.

But in any case, that’s off topic.

On Topic: The Marion/Dominican Rosary is approved for private use universally. It is not approved for public paraliturgical use universally. (It is used paraliturgically within the Roman Church, often as part of Exposition of the Blessed Sacrament or in lieu of the Hours. And for Romans, that’s an approved use.)

It has consistently been encroaching on certain requisite activities for the DLs of Sts Basil and John, specifically, Matins (1st hour), 3rd hour and/or vespers. Byzantine tradition is that, in lieu of the hours, the Jesus Prayer or an Akathist may be substituted privately or in community, but not for a pre-liturgy prefix. Indeed, there are specific prayers for before the DL when matins or 3rd hour (or vespers, for vigil DL’s) are not celebrated publicly. Then again, the priest and deacon are supposed to say the hours anyway, so doing them with the parish community makes a lot of sense.
 
Dear Aramis:

Yes, it’s off topic.

But just a few days ago, his/her affiliation was “Greek Orthodox.”

Now, it shows “Greek Catholic.” So, our friend Aussie from Brisbane is Melkite!?
 
My take is that if an Eastern Catholic wants to pray the Rosary at home, by himself after Liturgy, etc…, let him do it. But, in Church one should stick to the traditions of one’s own Rite. (Using Church to refer to Sui Juris and Rite to refer to practices of worship.)
 
i’m not very like the rose ,
but i need to say, the rose really very charming~
 
Amadeus said:
Dear Aramis:

Yes, it’s off topic.

But just a few days ago, his/her affiliation was “Greek Orthodox.”

Now, it shows “Greek Catholic.” So, our friend Aussie from Brisbane is Melkite!?
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I am inded a Melkite, but yes I did chnage it…im not sure why I was listed as Orthodox. error on my part prehaps? well it’s corrected now
 
aussie_melkite said:
I am inded a Melkite, but yes I did chnage it…im not sure why I was listed as Orthodox. error on my part prehaps? well it’s corrected now
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How do you make the mistake of typing in “Orthodox”? You have to type it in, it’s not like you accidentally checked the wrong box in a list. Glad you figured that out.
 
There is not one Rule of Prayer to the Mother of God. There have been many since the days of the Desert Fathers. In Slavic practice there have been variations since the founding of the Pecherska Lavra by Sts. Anthony and Theodosius. The Cell Rule of Optina is one example that makes use of repetitions of prayer to the Mother of God. St. Seraphim and other spiritual fathers also recommended a modified Rule of St. Pachomius and other existing rules that included more repetitive prayer to the Mother of God.

But these are private prayers, and not liturgical prayer such as the Moleben or Akathists. There are many Akathists to the Mother of God that have developed from the original of St. Romanus, especially amongst the Slavic churches - for specific feasts, in honor of specific wonder-working icons, etc.

Regarding the statement about Metropolitan Andrey, he also spoke of the “rosary” in terms of the Eastern prayer-rope, so be careful what exactly you are referring to. And for the question of who he is, he is perhaps the greatest hierarch of the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church since the time of the Union and St. Josaphat. He was responsible for immeasurable spiritual, liturgical, cultural, and catechetical renewal amongst his people. He is largely responsible for the revitalization of authentic Eastern liturgical and spiritual practices amongst the Greek Catholics in the 20th century, and he also renenergized traditional Eastern monasticism. And all of this during two World Wars and a Communist revolution (as well as serious health problems).

It was his consecration of key hierarchs before his death (many of whom are now beatified) and his placement of dedicated clergy that assured the survival of the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church during one of the greatest genocides perpetrated against any particular people in the history of mankind.
FDRLB
 
Diak said:
There is not one Rule of Prayer to the Mother of God. There have been many since the days of the Desert Fathers. In Slavic practice there have been variations since the founding of the Pecherska Lavra by Sts. Anthony and Theodosius. The Cell Rule of Optina is one example that makes use of repetitions of prayer to the Mother of God. St. Seraphim and other spiritual fathers also recommended a modified Rule of St. Pachomius and other existing rules that included more repetitive prayer to the Mother of God.
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Yes, but variations of the “Byzantine Rosary” and the “Eastern Rosary” that are online are not accurate not because they are simply not “The Rule of the Mother of God”, but that they are constructed: it is simply the rosary with Eastern prayers almost “tacked on”. I do not judge those who have been greatly edified by entreating the Mother of God in such ways. It is most important that you entreat her! But in the Rule of the Mother of God (not created by St. Seraphim, but just brought to our attention by him) follows more the Eastern Christian feasts, and even has prescribed intentions.

Saying that, I do not say that the western rosary is inferior. In fact, even though the link above is from the Western Orthodox site, the Western Orthodox themselves pray the western rosary paraliturgically. It’s just that some Eastern Christians express some discomfort with the “eastern rosaries”, and I wanted to bring up the more continuous alternative, that’s all. I don’t presume to determine what anyone should pray; I’m no one’s bishop.
 
Dox Rox:

The Term “Rosary” has been applied to any set of prayer beads and the collection of prayers associated therewith for centuries; the use of prayer beads well predates the use of the term Rosary (which seems to be 1350 or so).

The Marian Rosary of the Dominicans is one of several prayer-sets that fall under the term.

The Chotki is oft referred to as the Jesus Rosary; it is even listed in the 1913 Catholic Encyclopedia entry for Rosary.
 
(missed the editing window)…

One other thing to remember: The Chotki is NOT the marian Rosary in any way, and it is very much present in online sources and in discussions here.

It is approved for paraliturgical use in the byzantine rite churches. It still doesn’t replace matins nor 3rd hour.
 
Aramis said:
Dox Rox:

The Term “Rosary” has been applied to any set of prayer beads and the collection of prayers associated therewith for centuries; the use of prayer beads well predates the use of the term Rosary (which seems to be 1350 or so).

The Marian Rosary of the Dominicans is one of several prayer-sets that fall under the term.

The Chotki is oft referred to as the Jesus Rosary; it is even listed in the 1913 Catholic Encyclopedia entry for Rosary.
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Yes, but that doesn’t have to do with my point…
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me:
It’s just that some Eastern Christians express some discomfort with the “eastern rosaries”, and I wanted to bring up the more continuous alternative, that’s all. I don’t presume to determine what anyone should pray; I’m no one’s bishop.
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What I posted just wasn’t a construct to get the western rosary to fit into an eastern ethos (which is why it is in quotations) like some online seem to be; it was an organic eastern devotion, which some eastern Christians might be more comfortable with.
 
Everyone agrees the Rosary is a beautiful devotion, and I, for one, am for taking what is right and good from wherever it comes. What gives this question its “edge” so to speak, the elephant in the room, is the larger issue of Latin domination, real or perceived. And when the Latins on this forum say that the Rosary is a “universal devotion” based purely on papal declarations or western apparitions, it just pours salt on the wounds of schism. It really shouldn’t be too much to ask that the Orthodox have (name removed by moderator)ut into what is and isn’t a “universal devotion”.
 
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