Round Churches --yeah or nay?

[Lepanto]

I like circular churches. They let me focus my attention on all the pretty women on the other side.

 

[Tim_c]

When I lived in Wichita, I went to a church called Magdalen. It was round, and very Orthodox. It can work.

My church is also round and very orthodox. We have stained glass windows, statues and a crucified Christ. The only downside is that the windows are 18x18" and ugly.

 

[Cat]

When I go into an old, historic Catholic Church that is filled with statues, ornate alters at the front and sides of the church, stained glass, murals on the ceiling…it “feels” like God is present. It “feels” Catholic. When I attend a modern “round” church, that is bare, it does not feel Catholic. The round church I attended where the priest was “giving” away Eucharist, is built in a way that one focuses more on the lay people rather than the priest. After all, when seated in a semi-circle, you actually see the other parishoners. I think when they used to build the more traditional style churches, everyone was facing the front. Just like in a traditional classroom.

Our faith shouldn’t be based on our feelings.

 

[Jacafamala]

There’s a church in our town here that was once so beautiful, and they tried to make it roundish. They ripped the altar out, put a platform in the center, and then stuck the tabernacle off to the side–along side the pews that have no kneelers. People walk past without genuflecting. Nope, doesn’t work.

This was a church that poor immigrants built with their nickels and dimes.

Pax Christi,
Ann

 

[JKirkLVNV]

The parish in my mother’s town is building a new church. It’s round, built in the shape of a monstrance. It draws on historical precedent. I don’t know what would look more “Catholic,” unless it was St. Peter’s.

stfoafrisco.org/index.asp

 

[Kielbasi]

Round churches do have a lot of advantages. The people can park on all sides of the building, and it makes for a shorter walk to their cars. The building is safer in case of fire, more exits all around the building, the people can see and hear better as more people can sit closer.

It isn’t a “catholic v protestant” issue, BTW. A lot of protestant churches have gothic, romanesque or other more traditional styles of architecture.

 

[Catholic_Kat]

Our faith shouldn’t be based on our feelings.

What does it mean then when people say they “feel” the holy spirit. My priest uses this expression all the time.

 

[Scotty_PGH]

The parish in my mother’s town is building a new church. It’s round, built in the shape of a monstrance. It draws on historical precedent. I don’t know what would look more “Catholic,” unless it was St. Peter’s.

stfoafrisco.org/index.asp

The outside looks nice, but the inside is atrocious. But at least the parishioners will be able to take a bath on their way to their pew.

 

[Walking_Home]

The round and/or semi-circular churces —seem to bring the “meal” aspect to the fore-front. Just as we sit around our dinning table at home —now it is being reflected in sitting around the Altar. A long term effect — could bring desensitization of the Holy Sacrifice – therefore leaving Mass as “meal” .

 

[Scotty_PGH]

The round and/or semi-circular churces —seem to bring the “meal” aspect to the fore-front. Just as we sit around our dinning table at home —now it is being reflected in sitting around the Altar. A long term effect — could bring desensitization of the Holy Sacrifice – therefore leaving Mass as “meal” .

The fact that these churches often look like a Pizza Hut just reinforces that whole “meal” thing.

 

[Brenda_V]

There’s a church in our town here that was once so beautiful, and they tried to make it roundish. They ripped the altar out, put a platform in the center, and then stuck the tabernacle off to the side–along side the pews that have no kneelers. People walk past without genuflecting. Nope, doesn’t work.

This was a church that poor immigrants built with their nickels and dimes.

Pax Christi,
Ann

It never works when you do something like this to an already existing building! Whether it is for a theatre or a church. My own parish needed to add on as we had outgrown our building (this was over 21 years ago) so, in order to take up the least amount of space and lose less parking lot spaces we ended up with a “semi-round” addition which tripled the occupancy load of the building. It was well done with the altar being front and center, two side sets of pews angled toward the altar and the center pews just following along in line with the existing pews. We have beautiful stained glass windows, wonderful Stations and as money has allowed beautiful statues added every so often. So a semi-round works but only if that is what the building was designed for!

What does it mean then when people say they “feel” the holy spirit. My priest uses this expression all the time.

This is a hard expression to define . I can tell you though that I have felt the Holy Spirit, I have felt the presence of Jesus in a Church, I have also felt the lack of Jesus presence in protestant churches but I can’t explain it to you. Some people are just more sensitive to this than others and that means absolutely nothing about your faith or theirs. You can not make it come to you at will either, if God sees a need for you to “feel the Holy Spirit”, He will make sure you feel Him and you will know it! This is why Cat says that our Faith is not a “feeling”, some will feel it some times and others will never feel it, ever.

So, to answer the OP’s question. round Churches - yeah or nay? I am going to have to answer, it depends. There are many factors that go into whether a round Church would work or not. The church mentioned in the above quote is one that I would agree with Ann about, this one would be a nay - don’t take something that is working and change it! If you are building new or putting in an addition then I would go with semi-circular so you can get as many people in as possible yet no one is behind the altar.

Brenda V.
p.s. I am appalled at that one church someone went to where the Priest asked if anyone wanted the “left overs!”

 

[Windmill]

Having the parishioners in the pews facing the same direction as the priest has deep eschatological roots. In the past, the Mass was celebrated ad orientem (towards the East) with priest and congregation all facing the same direction. The Sacrifice was offerred by the whole Church, but through the priest acting in the person of Christ.

After Vatican II, the meal dimension was, in my opinion, over-stressed. The round church creates a sense of gathering around a table, not of offerring a sacrifice through the priest. It made things a lot more “cozy” and casual.

Finally, another reason I dislike round churches is that you are also facing the people across the way from you. The congregation is literally turning in on itself.

“The turning of the priest towards the people has turned the community into a self-enclosed circle. In its outward form, it no longer opens out on what lies ahead and above, but is locked into itself. The common turning towards the East was not a “celebration towards the wall”; it did not mean that the priest “had his back to the people”: the priest himself was not regarded as so important. For just as the congregation in the synagogue looked together towards Jerusalem, so in the Christian liturgy the congregation looked together “towards the Lord”. As one of the fathers of Vatican II’s Constitution on the Liturgy, J. A. Jungmann, put it, it was much more a question of priest and people facing in the same direction, knowing that together they were in a procession towards the Lord. They did not lock themselves into a circle, they did not gaze at one another, but as the pilgrim People of God they set off for the Oriens, for the Christ who comes to meet us. …” -* Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger (Pp. BXVI), ***“Spirit of the Liturgy”

 

[JKirkLVNV]

The round and/or semi-circular churces —seem to bring the “meal” aspect to the fore-front. Just as we sit around our dinning table at home —now it is being reflected in sitting around the Altar. A long term effect — could bring desensitization of the Holy Sacrifice – therefore leaving Mass as “meal” .

A) You’re making an assumption that everyone has a round table for their meals and would thus associate round with meal. That would be a reach even for someone used to tortuous mental gymnastics to prove points not of the mind of the Church.

B) Regarding “the mind of the Church,” there have been round churches throughout history, most quite traditional (in that they were built in other times). There’s nothing revolutionary about the concept. Wouldn’t it be “modernism” to suggest that we couldn’t have round churches when there is clearly a “traditional” precedent?

C) The concept of the meal is an integral part of the Holy Sacrifice, even in it’s foreshadowing in the OT. The sacrifice was consumed by the priests and, if I’m not mistaken, those making the offering. The Holy Sacrifice is, absent mortal sin and the proper disposition, to be consumed (“except you eat My Body and drink My Blood, you shall not have life within you”). There are groups who have taken the “meal” aspect way too far, but I hardly think that the shape of their church was the issue that the Holy See addressed.

 

[DebChris]

What does it mean then when people say they “feel” the holy spirit. My priest uses this expression all the time.

As Brenda (#31) states it is hard to express what it means to experience or to “feel” the Holy Spirit.
My very first retreat was at a Marian Center called The House of the Lord. As soon as I drove onto the property there was an overwhelming sense of peace and quiet that cannot be put into words. I had this same experience when I entered the Franciscan Center in Marathon, WI and at the Christine Meditation Center. There is an overwhelming sense that God is present in these places.God told Moses “Take off your shoes for this is holy ground.” There is the overwhelming sense that the places mentioned as well as others are holy ground. It can be felt in old churches and shrines where generations of people have come to give worship to God.
The Church is the Spouse of the Holy Spirit. The easiest way to explain it is terms of the love spouses feel for one another. There is an experience, a heart sense, between two people in love that cannot be expressed in words. It is this same experience but infinitely greater when I feel the Holy Spirit in my life. My daughter once asked me why she felt a shiver after the Sacrament of Reconciliation. My only answer was that she had felt the Holy Spirit.
Christ gives us a “peace beyond understanding.” When an individual “feels” the Holy Spirit it can range from a mere “shiver” to something much more profound. It is not simply an emotion.

 

[ANGELIC_LOVE]

It Does Not Matter Wheather It Is A Round Church Or Not Solong As You Believe In God Then That Is All That Matt

 

[Walking_Home]

A) You’re making an assumption that everyone has a round table for their meals and would thus associate round with meal. That would be a reach even for someone used to tortuous mental gymnastics to prove points not of the mind of the Church.

B) Regarding “the mind of the Church,” there have been round churches throughout history, most quite traditional (in that they were built in other times). There’s nothing revolutionary about the concept. Wouldn’t it be “modernism” to suggest that we couldn’t have round churches when there is clearly a “traditional” precedent?

C) The concept of the meal is an integral part of the Holy Sacrifice, even in it’s foreshadowing in the OT. The sacrifice was consumed by the priests and, if I’m not mistaken, those making the offering. The Holy Sacrifice is, absent mortal sin and the proper disposition, to be consumed (“except you eat My Body and drink My Blood, you shall not have life within you”). There are groups who have taken the “meal” aspect way too far, but I hardly think that the shape of their church was the issue that the Holy See addressed.

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A. Whether a table is round, square, or rectangular is not the point—we still sit around it.—no matter the shape.

B. While there have been round churches in our history—in our current time—the Holy Sacrifice of Mass is being threatened. It is in our current climate that the architecture of a church can have negative effects.

vatican.va/roman_curia/synod/documents/rc_synod_doc_20050707_instrlabor-xi-assembly_en.html

The Perception of the Eucharistic Mystery among the Faithful

1. Generally speaking, the responses to the Lineamenta reveal a certain decrease in the understanding of the mystery celebrated. The Eucharist as gift and mystery is not always perceived. This is witnessed in various cultural nuances. For example, in those countries enjoying a general climate of peace and prosperity—primarily western countries—many perceive the Eucharistic mystery as simply the fulfilment of a Sunday obligation and a meal of fellowship/COLOR]. Instead, in those countries experiencing wars and other difficulties, many understand the Eucharistic mystery more fully, that is, including its sacrificial aspect. The paschal mystery, celebrated in an unbloody manner on the altar, gives profound spiritual meaning to the sufferings of Catholic Christians in these lands, helping these people to accept them as a participation in the mystery of the death and resurrection of the Lord, Jesus Christ.

Some responses, coming from the Church in Africa, mention that the idea of sacrifice is indigenous to the cultures of that continent. Therefore, this understanding, properly taken and purified of elements extraneous to the Gospel, is often used in pastoral catechesis for a better understanding of the sacrificial aspect of the Eucharist.

Catechesis is faced with the difficulty of preserving the sacrificial aspect of the Eucharist as well as the idea of the Eucharist as a meal. Oftentimes, the latter receives more emphasis than the former.

C. See B.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

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A. Whether a table is round, square, or rectangular is not the point—we still sit around it.—no matter the shape.

B. While there have been round churches in our history—in our current time—the Holy Sacrifice of Mass is being threatened. It is in our current climate that the architecture of a church can have negative effects.

vatican.va/roman_curia/synod/documents/rc_synod_doc_20050707_instrlabor-xi-assembly_en.html

The Perception of the Eucharistic Mystery among the Faithful

1. Generally speaking, the responses to the Lineamenta reveal a certain decrease in the understanding of the mystery celebrated. The Eucharist as gift and mystery is not always perceived. This is witnessed in various cultural nuances. For example, in those countries enjoying a general climate of peace and prosperity—primarily western countries—many perceive the Eucharistic mystery as simply the fulfilment of a Sunday obligation and a meal of fellowship**/**COLOR]. Instead, in those countries experiencing wars and other difficulties, many understand the Eucharistic mystery more fully, that is, including its sacrificial aspect. The paschal mystery, celebrated in an unbloody manner on the altar, gives profound spiritual meaning to the sufferings of Catholic Christians in these lands, helping these people to accept them as a participation in the mystery of the death and resurrection of the Lord, Jesus Christ.

Some responses, coming from the Church in Africa, mention that the idea of sacrifice is indigenous to the cultures of that continent. Therefore, this understanding, properly taken and purified of elements extraneous to the Gospel, is often used in pastoral catechesis for a better understanding of the sacrificial aspect of the Eucharist.

Catechesis is faced with the difficulty of preserving the sacrificial aspect of the Eucharist as well as the idea of the Eucharist as a meal. Oftentimes, the latter receives more emphasis than the former.

C. See B.

As per usual, it depends on what you boldface:

Catechesis is faced with the difficulty of preserving the sacrificial aspect of the Eucharist as well as the idea of the Eucharist as a meal. Oftentimes, the latter receives more emphasis than the former.

And I had already stipulated to the fact that the “meal” aspect was overemphasized by some.

None of that has anything to do with round churches, which, AGAIN, are a part our our tradition. There is no demonstrative proof that a round building makes people think “meal” more and “sacrifice” less. You look for things to worry over.

 

[Walking_Home]

As per usual, it depends on what you boldface:

Catechesis is faced with the difficulty of preserving the sacrificial aspect of the Eucharist as well as the idea of the Eucharist as a meal. Oftentimes, **the latter **receives more emphasis than the former.

And I had already stipulated to the fact that the “meal” aspect was overemphasized by some.

None of that has anything to do with round churches, which, AGAIN, are a part our our tradition. There is no demonstrative proof that a round building makes people think “meal” more and “sacrifice” less. You look for things to worry over.

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Very good —but what you bolded is not the problem the Church is concerned with—now is it. It is loosing the sacrificial nature of the Mass that She has to deal with.

And as I said—while round church are part of our history—it is in our current climate that the design can have a negative effect. Bad and/or false catechisis as to the nature of the Mass—can be re-enforced with a design that mimicks the environment of our dinning table.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

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And as I said—while round church are part of our history—it is in our current climate that the design can have a negative effect. Bad and/or false catechisis as to the nature of the Mass—can be re-enforced with a design that mimicks the environment of our dinning table.

To which I reply, in a total rip-off from Fidelis:

"ab abusu ad usum non valet consequentia–the abuse of something good does not, as a consequence, invalidate it’s proper use."

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Church buildings in the East, tend to be round, verses rectangular. In fact, the rectangle shape of church buildings, began after Constantine gave the Church, government buildings to use, which were rectangular and had a seating arrangement that of a court. Early Christians on the Middle East, celebrated Mass in a semi-circle, around the alter. Modern round church buildings are closer to early Christianity than rectangular ones.

In fact, the Eastern, Orthodox Church’s tend to have a dome, above the altar, with the seats around the altar.

Jim