routines, traditons, no authenticity, no Joy

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jennifer101:
Love God with all your heart and be nice to your neighbor.

You don’t have to fast to get into heaven. You don’t have to say the rosary, or genuflect, or kneal then rise, then cross yourself, or receive communion, or attend ccd classes, or go to Church on Holy days of obligation or give up something for lent, or put out a nativity scene or sing in a choir or know the nicean creed or avoid Harry Potter or homeschool your children, or hang crosses in your home, or whatever else. Some Catholics act like trained circus monkeys jumping through every hoop they imagine will assist their walk into heaven. Searching for God and finding bits of Him even in people like Joel Osteen is not a crime. God actually DOES exist in Joel Osteen for those who think he’s nothing more than a tour guide to Hell.
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You don’t have to do a bunch of these. But receiving Communion was commanded by Jesus himself. The Nicene Creed is also important to know as it protects Catholicism from error, the same error you belleve Catholics have made. The creeds are basically a defense against heresy and were made so that errors did not creep in.

Hanging a blessed Crucifix in our home is a weapon and a reminder as many of the other optional practices. They are powerful weapons against evil.
 
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buffalo:
You don’t have to do a bunch of these. But receiving Communion was commanded by Jesus himself. The Nicene Creed is also important to know as it protects Catholicism from error, the same error you belleve Catholics have made. The creeds are basically a defense against heresy and were made so that errors did not creep in.

Hanging a blessed Crucifix in our home is a weapon and a reminder as many of the other optional practices. They are powerful weapons against evil.
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Yes communion was commanded. But it’s not necessary to get into heaven. Also, being a Celiac family- tell me why the hang up over the recipe of the host. That’s a bunch of useless traditon right there. You are not protected by a powerful weapon when you hang a cross. It’s just a cross. There’s no power in it. Blessed or not, it’s just a shaped material that will eventually be ruined. Knowing the nicene creed does not keep errors out of you. Look at all who can recite it and are still chosing to sin becasue they believe that knowing it is some kind of special catholic protection.

tothe other poster… So, Joel Osteen vacations in Vail? So what? Should you itemize the luxeries of the Pope as proof that he’s a bad guy? I know P. John Paul took many vacations. Was that a crime? I’m not jealous of anyone’s material wealth. Why are you?
 
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jennifer101:
Look at all who can recite it and are still chosing to sin becasue they believe that knowing it is some kind of special catholic protection.
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Almost all Christian faiths base themselves off of the Nicene Creed, not just Catholics. I am near the point to question your knowledge of basic Catholci and Christian teaching if you don’t know this.
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jennifer101:
tothe other poster… So, Joel Osteen vacations in Vail? So what? Should you itemize the luxeries of the Pope as proof that he’s a bad guy? I know P. John Paul took many vacations. Was that a crime? I’m not jealous of anyone’s material wealth. Why are you?
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You’re spinning my words in an attempt to dress me down and be uncharitable towards me, I’m not jealous. I do find it outrageous that you consider your fellow Catholics phonies, but Joel Osteen legit and a truly religious guy. To me a man of God should not lavish millions of dollars frivolously on materials for himself or his wife. It’s hypocritical, and Jesus wouldn’t approve.

What wealth does the Pope have? Typically a Pope is buried with no Earthly possession as Pope John Paul II was.
 
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jennifer101:
Yes communion was commanded. But it’s not necessary to get into heaven. Also, being a Celiac family- tell me why the hang up over the recipe of the host. That’s a bunch of useless traditon right there. You are not protected by a powerful weapon when you hang a cross. It’s just a cross. There’s no power in it. Blessed or not, it’s just a shaped material that will eventually be ruined. Knowing the nicene creed does not keep errors out of you. Look at all who can recite it and are still chosing to sin becasue they believe that knowing it is some kind of special catholic protection.

tothe other poster… So, Joel Osteen vacations in Vail? So what? Should you itemize the luxeries of the Pope as proof that he’s a bad guy? I know P. John Paul took many vacations. Was that a crime? I’m not jealous of anyone’s material wealth. Why are you?
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Jesus left His roadmap to heaven in the Catholic Church. Your church did not exist prior to 1530 or so.

The Crucifix has definite power. There is no question. Ask an excorcist. Ask the devil.

The Catholic Church is a hospital for sinners. Everyone in it from the Pope down is a sinner. We were not fortunate to have Jesus as our Pope.

Catholicism is a proposition, a hard one indeed. A very high standard, if you will, that men try to attain and fail. I can recite the creed and yet in some way everyday I fail it. However, I will keep trying and I hope in God’s merciful forgiveness.
 
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buffalo:
Jesus left His roadmap to heaven in the Catholic Church. Your church did not exist prior to 1530 or so.

The Crucifix has definite power. There is no question. Ask an excorcist. Ask the devil.

The Catholic Church is a hospital for sinners. Everyone in it from the Pope down is a sinner. We were not fortunate to have Jesus as our Pope.

Catholicism is a proposition, a hard one indeed. A very high standard, if you will, that men try to attain and fail. I can recite the creed and yet in some way everyday I fail it. However, I will keep trying and I hope in God’s merciful forgiveness.
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The Catholic leadership is sinking this ship. There is so much license that has been taken with the implementation of “traditons” that now have the look and feel of God’s decree over us. I’m tired of the made up baloney in the Catholic church. You’re comfortable following men who believe in limbo, purgatory, fasting, crosses with “real” power, and more… I’m not. Strip away all the extras forced on us by traditions and all you’re left with is the word of God. Simple, uncomplicated, no hoops to jump through, no ashes, no holy days of obligation, no communion with gluten, no choreographed standing, sitting, knealing… Enough already. Just because you can perform tricks on cue, recite 50+ hail Mary’s as you move your fingers along jazzy beads and all that other junk, doesn’t make you fit to know God. The Catholic church should have gotten over itself when Martin Luther made his point. He was right. If the church had acknowledged his valid points then, the church would be much better off today. A pope is here to run God’s church, not the church of long standing tradtions.
 
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jennifer101:
The Catholic leadership is sinking this ship. There is so much license that has been taken with the implementation of “traditons” that now have the look and feel of God’s decree over us. I’m tired of the made up baloney in the Catholic church. You’re comfortable following men who believe in limbo, purgatory, fasting, crosses with “real” power, and more… I’m not. Strip away all the extras forced on us by traditions and all you’re left with is the word of God. Simple, uncomplicated, no hoops to jump through, no ashes, no holy days of obligation, no communion with gluten, no choreographed standing, sitting, knealing… Enough already. Just because you can perform tricks on cue, recite 50+ hail Mary’s as you move your fingers along jazzy beads and all that other junk, doesn’t make you fit to know God. The Catholic church should have gotten over itself when Martin Luther made his point. He was right. If the church had acknowledged his valid points then, the church would be much better off today. A pope is here to run God’s church, not the church of long standing tradtions.
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I can show you biblical proofs for just about everything in your rant.

Where do you think all of this came from? The Bible you are reading is a gift to you from the Catholic Church.
 
Jenifer,

I too feel so many of the feelings that you discuss, my issue was that I could not find the love in our church, it seemed as if we have become so hooked up on our creeds, teachings, bibles, catechisms, dogmas and doctrines that we have lost all understanding of the love that is God.

My faith was boosted by looking into the profiles of a number of people whom I feel in following Gods message have managed to extend love to an unbelievable extent, one of these people being Mother Teresa. There are others but I shall not list them.

I feel as if the church is a cold institution that has lost all personality, and often, those who wish to act as Jesus would do not find, or are removed from an appropriate position in our church heirarchy.

I encourage you to attempt to overlook your experience of God the church, and God in mass, but rather to try and find love, extend love always - find God the love!

with love and hope,

Libero.
 
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jennifer101:
The Catholic leadership is sinking this ship. There is so much license that has been taken with the implementation of “traditons” that now have the look and feel of God’s decree over us. I’m tired of the made up baloney in the Catholic church. You’re comfortable following men who believe in limbo, purgatory, fasting, crosses with “real” power, and more… I’m not. Strip away all the extras forced on us by traditions and all you’re left with is the word of God. Simple, uncomplicated, no hoops to jump through, no ashes, no holy days of obligation, no communion with gluten, no choreographed standing, sitting, knealing… Enough already. Just because you can perform tricks on cue, recite 50+ hail Mary’s as you move your fingers along jazzy beads and all that other junk, doesn’t make you fit to know God. The Catholic church should have gotten over itself when Martin Luther made his point. He was right. If the church had acknowledged his valid points then, the church would be much better off today. A pope is here to run God’s church, not the church of long standing tradtions.
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I really think you’re missing the point, those things you are listing aren’t necesary for salvation except communion, but we believe it helps us and aids us in getting closer to God. And it is all Biblical. Is it necesary to sit around in circles like hippies and sing kum by yah like in a lot of these new age Churches? Of course not, but it’s there way of worshipping. Is it necesary for us fill a football stadium and listen to Joel Osteen prattle on about how you can do no wrong, of course not, but that’s how they worship. Speaking in toungues is it necesary? No but there are denominations that believe it to be,a dn it’s hwo they wroship. It’s all just different forms of worship. Some sing like rock stars at their service we kneel, and genuflect and cross ourselves, what’s so wrong with that? You’ve sunk to the point of whining, what’s the real problem? You’re very angry, and I can’t see anything anyone has said to you to warrant it.

What it really comes down to is do you believe in the real presence of Christ? If you do the Catholic Mass is the place for you, if you don’t and you really dislike Catholics as much as you appear to in your posts, it still is the right place for you, you just don’t know it yet…
 
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jennifer101:
The Catholic leadership is sinking this ship. There is so much license that has been taken with the implementation of “traditons” that now have the look and feel of God’s decree over us. I’m tired of the made up baloney in the Catholic church. You’re comfortable following men who believe in limbo, purgatory, fasting, crosses with “real” power, and more… I’m not. Strip away all the extras forced on us by traditions and all you’re left with is the word of God. Simple, uncomplicated, no hoops to jump through, no ashes, no holy days of obligation, no communion with gluten, no choreographed standing, sitting, knealing… Enough already. Just because you can perform tricks on cue, recite 50+ hail Mary’s as you move your fingers along jazzy beads and all that other junk, doesn’t make you fit to know God. The Catholic church should have gotten over itself when Martin Luther made his point. He was right. If the church had acknowledged his valid points then, the church would be much better off today. A pope is here to run God’s church, not the church of long standing tradtions.
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the Mass is awesome and I am often moved to tears during Mass from the sacrifice Christ provided for us. The Health and wealth gospel that Osteen and the others preach is empty and unbiblical, see below. As for the so-called extras and Traditions, see below:

Health and Wealth Gospel
Mk 10:28 - no “take cross and follow me” = not worthy of me
Rom 8:16-17 - heirs with Christ, if only we suffer with him
Rom 8:18 - present suffering nothing compared w/future glory
Phil 1:28-29 - granted to believe, also to suffer for him
Col 1:24 - filling up what is lacking in Christ sufferings
Heb 12:5-7 - whom God loves, he disciplines as sons
Heb 12:11 discipline seems painful, but brings righteousness
1Pet 1:6 - for a while you must suffer various trials
1Pet 2:19-21 - suffering = grace; Jesus suffered as our example

SCRIPTURE AND TRADITION
Bible Alone or Bible Plus Tradition?
1Cor 11:2 - hold fast to traditions I handed on to you
2Thess 2:15 - hold fast to traditions, whether oral or by letter
2Thess 3:6 - shun those acting not according to tradition
Jn 21:25 - not everything Jesus said recorded in Scripture
Mk 13:31 - heaven & earth shall pass away, but my word won’t
Acts 20;35 - Paul records a saying of Jesus not found in gospels
2Tim 1:13 - follow my sound words; guard the truth
2Tim2:2 - what you heard entrust to faithful men
2Pet 1:20 - no prophecy is a matter of private interpretation
2Pet 3:15-16 - Paul’s letters can be difficult to grasp & interpret
1Pet 1:25 - God’s eternal word = word preached to you
Rom 10:17 - faith come from what is heard
1Cor 15:1-2 - being saved if you hold fast to the word I preached
Mk 16:15 - go to the whole world, proclaim gospel to every creature
Mt 23:2-3 - chair of Moses; observe whatever they tell you

Tradition Condemned?

1Cor 11:2 - commends them for following Apostolic tradition
2Thess 2:15 - commands them to keep traditions
2Thess 3:6 - shun those acting not according to tradition
 
jennifer101,

You have accused posters of having “fake religiosity” when they posted about their own joy and love for both the Mass and the Catholic Church. I would offer to you that this is a judgement that you have made, and I have received a very different impression from their posts.

I can only speak for myself and say that I have tried to help you in the best way I know how, offering you advice and drawing on my own experience. I certainly do not feel I am better than you, nor did I mean to patronize you. I never scolded you in any way.

But I would say that, yes I do feel great joy every time I receive Jesus. I am very blessed to have been received into the Church at Easter almost two years ago after completing RCIA. I knew and understood who I was receiving that Easter, and I try to remind myself of the joy that it is each and every time I go to Mass.

I do understand that you are frustrated with those around you at Mass. While other Catholics can and do let us down, that does not mean that the Church is missing something. The Church has the fullness of truth, and hell shall not prevail against her.

You have said that you have problems with the Church as well. I don’t know what all of them are, but you mentioned that Catholic Church teachings do not show that our God is a loving father who adores each of us. Honestly, that is the teaching of the Catholic Church even if it is not addressed in the homily every Sunday. God’s love for us is certainly the reason for the Eucharist, and we address Him as Our Father as well.

I know it must be very difficult for you to live with a child with such a severe allergy! My husband has several allergies, but nothing nearly as difficult to avoid.

That said, the Church is not “hung up on a supposed recipe.” Wheat must be used to make the Eucharist or it cannot become the Body and Blood of Our Lord. It would become a symbol, not the real thing. There are some hosts that can be obtained that have had the gluten removed. I know it can be done, but it is very difficult for the priests involved. If you haven’t already, maybe you can inquire about this possibility. If that doesn’t work, one of the greatest mysteries of our faith is that the Body and Blood of Our Lord are contained in both the bread and wine! So your child will still be receiving all Jesus has to offer.

God bless you!
 
Hello Jennifer,

Welcome to the Forums! I understand your feelings; however, I must ask- What was your intent on posting this thread? Many people have offered you valid suggestions and advice (which I would assume that was what you were looking for). However, you have returned the advice with anger and a judgmental attitude regarding our Catholic Faith. If you want to leave the Church that Christ founded that is your decision, but it sounds as if you are trying to convince others to do the same.

Have you talked with your husband about this? Maybe he has some advice or suggestions that you would be willing to listen to. Since your decision will affect your children, I would think that you and your husband should discuss this fully.

God Bless!
 
Pillar of Fire, Pillar of Truth

WHETHER or not you are Catholic, you may have questions about the Catholic faith. You may have heard challenges to the Catholic Church’s claim to be the interpreter and safeguard of the teachings of Jesus Christ.
Code: 
					Such challenges come from door-to-door missionaries who ask, "Are 						you saved?", from peer pressure that urges you to ignore the Church’s 						teachings, from a secular culture that whispers "There is no God." 						

					You can’t deal with these challenges unless you understand the basics 						of the Catholic faith. This booklet introduces them to you. 

					In Catholicism you will find answers to life’s most troubling questions: 						Why am I here? Who made me? What must I believe? How must I act? All these 						can be answered to your satisfaction, if only you will open yourself to 						God’s grace, turn to the Church he established, and follow his plan for 						you (John 7:17).
AN UNBROKEN HISTORY
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					Jesus said his Church would be "the light of the world." He 						then noted that "a city set on a hill cannot be hid" (Matt. 5:14). 						This means his Church is a *visible* organization. It must have characteristics 						that clearly identify it and that distinguish it from other churches. Jesus 						promised, "I will build my Church and the gates of hell will not prevail 						against it" (Matt. 16:18). This means that his Church will never be 						destroyed and will never fall away from him. His Church will survive until 						his return.

more…
 
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jennifer101:
The Catholic leadership is sinking this ship. There is so much license that has been taken with the implementation of “traditons” that now have the look and feel of God’s decree over us. I’m tired of the made up baloney in the Catholic church. You’re comfortable following men who believe in limbo, purgatory, fasting, crosses with “real” power, and more… I’m not. Strip away all the extras forced on us by traditions and all you’re left with is the word of God. Simple, uncomplicated, no hoops to jump through, no ashes, no holy days of obligation, no communion with gluten, no choreographed standing, sitting, knealing… Enough already. Just because you can perform tricks on cue, recite 50+ hail Mary’s as you move your fingers along jazzy beads and all that other junk, doesn’t make you fit to know God. The Catholic church should have gotten over itself when Martin Luther made his point. He was right. If the church had acknowledged his valid points then, the church would be much better off today. A pope is here to run God’s church, not the church of long standing tradtions.
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I think it’s wonderful that the Church offers us so much. The extras may not be necessary, but they add spice and variety to our spiritual lives.

Speaking for myself, I don’t jump through hoops. I sit, stand and kneel at the proper times to do so and try to remember why it is proper to do so. I go to Mass on days of obligation because I want to and because I know the Church would not make it an obligation unless it were truly necessary.

God bless.
 
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jennifer101:
. . . I believe the C. Church is the right one to be a member of and have no intention of actually leaving. . . .Joel Osteen may be one dimentional, but so is the Catholic Church. The arrogance of the leadership keeps it blind to the truth.
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From this last and other statements of yours (often quite self-righteous and judgmental) it seems that you have in fact left the Catholic Church although you may still be sitting in one of its pews. I’m sorry you find Osteen’s mess of pottage so palatable.
 
If you were in my area, I’d have you over tonight – cook up some tea and we’d talk. You sound angry and hurt – I have been there!

I grew up on the other side of the fence, the Health and Wealth preachers – well, some of them were like family to me. There is one who is a star on Trinity Broadcasting, his son still drops by for dinner when he is in the area… my family was ON the PTL Club program, my brother still is a recurring guest on the Jim Bakker show. (I say this not to brag, but to let you know that I really have been in those trenches…) There are some well intentioned Christian people in those congregations –

Interestingly enough, I also have a very serious disability and my mom is a cancer survivor. What made me angry and disillusioned? Being told by some in those groups that my mom had cancer because she did not have enough faith (my mom is a living saint). Having so many people pray for me to be healed from my dwarfism; seeing people told that they lost their job/home because they did not tithe enough. As a teen, these made me so angry, that was NOT the God of love – God had been turned into a genie in a bottle to work miracles on command…

I began to read, to immerse myself in history – and that journey led me to the Catholic Church. This Church that not only believes in miracles – they have people devoted to nothing but investigating miracles! (After with my own eyes seeing one faith healer show another the best way to make legs appear to grow – I know there can be fakery in the name of miracles).

One can be hurt in any church, and you sound like a mom who is really mad right now. I would be happy to talk to you off the boards, email me, I’ll give you my phone number – heck, one of my best friends since we were 10 years old has Celiac so I can even relate to that! – just, please, don’t call me a trained monkey… I’m just a Christian, living every day trying to be a little bit of salt and light.
 
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