RSV-CE Needs Correction - Confraternity Psalms (Split Thread)

[mmortal03]

Sorry for the delay. The 1948 Psalms seems to be the same translation as the 1951 and 1952 Confraternity Bibles from Carol.

Great! I have this all figured out now. I will wait for Cranch’s response, before I send off this email:

Mr. Keller,

I think I have found an instance of inaccuracy on one of your pages, though what you have on it has been VERY helpful in tracking down the problem.

The page in question is the following: kellerbook.com/LANGUA~2.HTM

On it, you list the CCD - Olinger (1950), the Ryan (1955), the Knox, and, what is purportedly, the CCD (1941) Psalms.

I have done some research and comparisons of my own (along with help from others), and I have found that there is actually another Psalms edition out there that you have confused as being the CCD (1941) Psalms.

I think I have determined that the text that you have listed as Psalm 129 from the “CCD (1941) Psalms” is actually not an excerpt from the real CCD (1941) Psalms. The text you have there is instead from one of the first English translations of the New Latin Translation of the Psalms called for by Pope Pius XII in 1945 (soon after DIVINO AFFLANTE SPIRITU) which came from the original Hebrew. I have a Benziger Brothers Psalms from 1945 that explicitly confirms this (it matches what you have there almost identically). Also, understanding the fact that Divino Afflante Spiritu had not been released until 1943 makes this case clear!

So, I will call the one that you have there, and what I have in my hands, the “CCD - Pius XII (1945) Psalms”. These happen to be what Olinger actually revised when he made the non-archaic language revision of these in 1950, as you can clearly see from their similarity by looking at your comparison on the page.

For complete proof of this, I will soon be purchasing a Confraternity Bible that I have been able to inspect that actually does contain the REAL, original, CCD (1941) Psalms that you distinctly refer to in the descriptions below the table, the Psalms that DID actually come from the older Latin Psalms, and not from the newer “Hebrew to Latin” Psalms of Pius XII. I have seen a picture of these, and also a transcription of Psalm 129 from these, and they are indeed different from the Douay Rheims, and are also different from all of those that you have listed on that page.

FYI, I think your descriptions below the figure are all accurate, and, practically speaking, you basically just need to replace what you have within the CCD (1941) Psalms column, with a text transcription of the proper text (of which I have provided for you below), and then add a new column titled as the “CCD - Pius XII (1945) Psalms” along with the transcription that you do already have there.

Here is a preliminary transcription of the real CCD (1941) Psalms, which I can confirm as accurate once I actually receive the document in my hands:

"Out of the depths I cry to thee, O Lord, O Lord, hear my voice! Let thy ears be attentive to the voice of my supplication. If thou didst keep count of offenses, O Lord, O Lord, who would endure it? But with thee is forgiveness of sins, that men may serve thee with reverence. In the Lord do I hope, my soul hopes in his word; my soul waits expectantly for the Lord, more than night watchmen for the coming of dawn. More than night watchmen for the coming of dawn does Israel await the Lord, because with the Lord there is mercy and with him there is plentiful redemption; and he shall redeem Israel from all its iniquities. "

 

[mmortal03]

So, here is what we have found so far:

1948 Confraternity Bible from SFH, and 1951 and 1952 Confraternity Bibles from Carol, which my idea is that this is the real CCD (1941) Psalms, from the Latin Vulgate:

"Out of the depths I cry to thee, O Lord, O Lord, hear my voice! Let thy ears be attentive to the voice of my supplication. If thou didst keep count of offenses, O Lord, O Lord, who would endure it? But with thee is forgiveness of sins, that men may serve thee with reverence. In the Lord do I hope, my soul hopes in his word; my soul waits expectantly for the Lord, more than night watchmen for the coming of dawn. More than night watchmen for the coming of dawn does Israel await the Lord, because with the Lord there is mercy and with him there is plentiful redemption; and he shall redeem Israel from all its iniquities. "

The following is what the page calls the CCD (1941) Psalms. I think it is, instead, the CCD - Pius XII (1945) Psalms, from the Hebrew->Latin Liber Psalmorum:

“Out of the depths I cry to thee, O Lord, Lord, hear my voice! Let thy ears become attentive to the voice of my supplication. If thou, O Lord, shouldst keep the memory of offenses, Lord, who shall stand? But with thee is forgiveness of sin, so that thou art served with reverential fear. I hope in the Lord, my soul hopes in his word; My soul longs for the Lord, more than watchmen for the dawn. More than watchmen for the dawn, let Israel long for the Lord, Because with the Lord there is mercy, and with him plentiful redemption: And he shall redeem Israel from all her iniquities.”

And finally, here is the one that I have sitting in front of me. Notice how similar it is to the second one above. (Closer to it than any of the others)

From “The Psalms: A Prayerbook, also the Canticles of the Roman Breviary in Latin and English” 1946 - Benziger Brothers, Inc., copyright 1945. “New English Translation with Ecclesiastical Approbation including The New Latin Version From the Hebrew by The Professors of the Pontifical Biblical Institute Authorized by Pope Pius XII.”

“Out of the depths I cry unto thee, O Lord, Lord, hear my voice! Let thine ears become attentive to the voice of my supplication. If thou, O Lord, keep the memory of offenses, Lord, who shall stand? But with thee there is forgiveness of sins, so that thou art served with reverential fear. I hope in the Lord, my soul hopes in his word; My soul longs for the Lord, More than watchmen for the dawn. More than watchmen for he dawn, Israel longs for the Lord, Because with the Lord there is mercy and with him plentiful redemption: And he shall redeem Israel from all her iniquities.”

 

[Cranch]

Something’s not right, mmortal03. Forgive the colors but it helps me keep things straight. First is this speculation:

1948 Confraternity Bible from SFH, and 1951 and 1952 Confraternity Bibles from Carol, which my idea is that this is the real CCD (1941) Psalms, from the Latin Vulgate

Then there is this fact:

From “The Psalms: A Prayerbook, also the Canticles of the Roman Breviary in Latin and English” 1946 - Benziger Brothers, Inc., copyright 1945. “New English Translation with Ecclesiastical Approbation including The New Latin Version From the Hebrew by** The Professors of the Pontifical Biblical Institute Authorized by Pope Pius XII.**”

Now, another fact:

I just happened upon a Confraternity Bible that my mother had. It says copyright 1949-1951-1952 Catholic Book Publishing Co. The Imprimatur was by Francis Cardinal Spellman September 14, 1948. The Psalms are "a new translation of **the new Latin version **approved by Pius XII. The rest of the Old Testament is the Douay Version. Psalm 129 matches the one I quoted above.

lak611’s “one I quoted above” is the text from the 1951 and 1952 Confraternity Bibles from Carol!!**

**Then comes more clarification:

Further update: I just looked at the introduction to the book of Psalms. It says: “The version of the psalms that follows is from the Latin translation of the original Hebrew text, which was prepared by the Professors of the Pontifical Biblical Institute of Rome at the command of Pope Pius XII, and published at Vatican City in 1945 A.D.”

Again, this is in reference to a Psalter which lak611 says matches Carol’s bibles. If I remember correctly, it also jibes with her ebay description. That lets out Carol’s bibles from containing an older (1941) translation from the Vulgate.

That being said, I think this is true… :

Basically, I think that site has the 1941 CCD Psalms mislabelled. -]I think what the 1941 CCD Psalms are, are what is in Carol’s bibles./-] What that site has listed should be marked as the 1945 Pius XII Psalms, imo, unless you guys have other ideas.

…for the reasons you laid out. The little differences between the “CCD 1941” and your 1946 Benziger are odd, but 1941’s “thy ears” is a definite typo, and the other discrepancies could be as well. It appears to me that we have two separate translations from Latin into English of Pius XII’s new Psalter:

1. SFH/Carol/lak611
2. your Benziger 1946 (I note this one actually claims Ecclesiastical Approbation for the English.)

All this being the case, I don’t believe we have identified the actual text of the true CCD 1941 version, if there is such a thing.

I don’t agree with this:

Furthermore, I do think that THIS is what the Olinger came from (also, what they have labelled on that page as the 1941 CCD Psalms). It makes more sense.

We know Olinger is in the 1970 NAB. The Preface to the NAB, The Old Testament says the NAB “is a completely new translation throughout. From the original and the oldest available texts of the sacred books…” And as Manfred posted earlier, the Preface also has this to say: “The basic text for the Psalms is not the Massoretic but one which the editors considered closer to the original inspired form, namely the Hebrew text underlying the new Latin Psalter of the Church, the Liber Psalmorum (1944, 1945). Nevertheless they retained full liberty to establish the reading of the original text on sound critical principles.”
I take that last sentence to mean they might even have looked at alternate Hebrew texts where they thought it necessary. Despite similarities to the “CCD 1941”, I believe the Olinger was translated from the Hebrew and wasn’t just an update of archaic English, but I am basing that solely on the above quotations. I also think it is the only English version translated from Hebrew, all the others being from Latin.

Finally where does all this leave Fr. Frey’s?

 

[Jerry-Jet]

Wouldn’t you have to get a Confraternity Bible form 1941, 1942, or 1943 to have one that had the CCD 1941 Psalms?

By 1944 wasn’t a new psalter being published?

Isn’t it true that Confraternity Bibles form 1941, 1942, and 1943 are quite rare?

Did World War II have any impact on the publishing of Catholic Bibles?

 

[mmortal03]

Wouldn’t you have to get a Confraternity Bible form 1941, 1942, or 1943 to have one that had the CCD 1941 Psalms?

No, as we have found, not necessarily. (and it depends on what the CCD 1941 Psalms actually is.)

By 1944 wasn’t a new psalter being published?

Not until 1945.

Isn’t it true that Confraternity Bibles form 1941, 1942, and 1943 are quite rare?

I don’t know if they are rare, as much as you just can’t find a lot of them online. I would bet that the people that have the most of them are, on average, too old to know what eBay is.

Did World War II have any impact on the publishing of Catholic Bibles?

Not sure on that one. Could you Google search that and let us know if you find out anything on it? I would be interested.

 

[mmortal03]

Now that we know that lak611 and SFH both have the Psalms that we still don’t have our hands on, Cranch, I don’t think I am going to buy any of those from Carol. So, if anybody wants one, go for them. It would do me just as well to work with someone like SFH or lak611 over the internet to do the comparisons than having to own one myself. Plus, you did put up a link to a cheaper one that seemed like it was what we needed. Maybe you or Jerry-Jet would be interested in that one?

 

[Cranch]

Now that we know that lak611 and SFH both have the Psalms that we still don’t have our hands on, Cranch, I don’t think I am going to buy any of those from Carol. So, if anybody wants one, go for them. It would do me just as well to work with someone like SFH or lak611 over the internet to do the comparisons than having to own one myself. Plus, you did put up a link to a cheaper one that seemed like it was what we needed. Maybe you or Jerry-Jet would be interested in that one?

I’ve got one “with Psalms from the new Latin version authorized by Pope Pius XII” arriving any day. I’ll let you know which of our samples it matches.

 

[Jerry-Jet]

So let me get this straight: Is there anyway to know if the Psalms are pre-Olinger aka eventual NAB other than reading psalms 1 and seeing if it uses "blessed "instead of “happy”?

What is the most recent publishing year that would be pre-Olinger?

I ask because if I knew a cut off date for pre-olinger Psalms then it would simply my search.

 

[mmortal03]

So let me get this straight: Is there anyway to know if the Psalms are pre-Olinger aka eventual NAB other than reading psalms 1 and seeing if it uses "blessed "instead of “happy”?

What is the most recent publishing year that would be pre-Olinger?

I ask because if I knew a cut off date for pre-olinger Psalms then it would simply my search.

I don’t think there are any after 1952 that we have seen so far, but that is as date specific as we can go. Before that, I think it matters more who published it, not the date.

 

[mmortal03]

Finally where does all this leave Fr. Frey’s?

I just got mine.

Minor punctuation fixes and spelling corrected from what the guy had sent me, but basically identical to what I had posted before that it says:

Fr. Frey (1947). (My Daily Psalm Book. Says it is the New English Translation from the New Latin Version)

Out of the depths I cry to thee, O Lord, O Lord, hear my voice! Let thy ears be attentive to the voice of my supplication. If thou shouldst remember sins, O Lord, O Lord, who could bear it? But with thee is forgiveness, that thou mayest be served with reverence. I hope in the Lord, my soul hopes in his word; my soul waits for the Lord, more than watchmen for the dawn. More than watchmen for the dawn, let Israel wait for the Lord, For with the Lord is mercy and with him is plenteous redemption: And he shall redeem Israel from all its sins.

Edit: It starts out similar to Carol’s text, and ends similarly, but is still its own variant.

 

[Cranch]

Grouped for referencee, Knox out for space.

Carol’s ** 1951 & 1952 Confraternity Bibles**;
SFH’s** 1948 Confraternity**; lak611’s** Confraternity © 1949-1951-1952**:

“Out of the depths I cry to thee, O Lord, O Lord, hear my voice! Let thy ears be attentive to the voice of my supplication. If thou didst keep count of offenses, O Lord, O Lord, who would endure it? But with thee is forgiveness of sins, that men may serve thee with reverence. In the Lord do I hope, my soul hopes in his word; my soul waits expectantly for the Lord, more than night watchmen for the coming of dawn. More than night watchmen for the coming of dawn does Israel await the Lord, because with the Lord there is mercy and with him there is plentiful redemption; and he shall redeem Israel from all its iniquities.”

Douay-Rheims (Challoner):

“1 Out of the depths I have cried to thee, O Lord: 2 Lord, hear my voice. Let thy ears be attentive to the voice of my supplication. 3 If thou, O Lord, wilt mark iniquities: Lord, who shall stand it. 4 For with thee there is merciful forgiveness: and by reason of thy law, I have waited for thee, O Lord. My soul hath relied on his word: 5 My soul hath hoped in the Lord. 6 From the morning watch even until night, let Israel hope in the Lord. 7 Because with the Lord there is mercy: and with him plentiful redemption. 8 And he shall redeem Israel from all his iniquities.”

CCD 1950 (Olinger);
Cranch’s** 1950 Confraternity**;** 1957 Confraternity Bibles**;** 1970 NAB**

Out of the depths I cry to you, O Lord; *
Lord, hear my voice
Let your ears be attentive * to my voice in supplication:
If you, O Lord, mark iniquities, * Lord, who can stand?
But with you is forgiveness, * that you may be revered
I trust in the Lord; * my soul trusts in his word.
My soul waits for the Lord * more than sentinels wait for the dawn.
More than sentinels wait for the dawn, * let Israel wait for the Lord.
For with the Lord is kindness and with him is plenteous redemption.
And he will redeem Israel * from all their iniquities.

** Mary Perkins Ryan, 1955

** Out of the depths I cry to you, O Lord, * Lord, hear my voice!
O listen intently, * hear the cry of my supplication.
If you, O Lord, were mindful of our sins, * Lord, who could endure it?
Bur forgiveness is yours, * so that with reverence men may serve you!
I hope in the Lord, * my soul hopes in his word:
My soul looks to the Lord, * more than watchmen look for daybreak.
More than watchmen look for daybreak, * let Israel look to the Lord:
For mercy is the Lord’s * and abundant redemption:
He will redeem Israel * from all his iniquities.

** CCD 1941 **(could be Benziger Bros. ©1945 misidentified)

Out of the depths I cry to thee, O Lord, * Lord, hear my voice!
Let thy ears become attentive * to the voice of my supplication.
If thou, O Lord, shouldst keep the memory of offenses, * Lord, who shall stand?
But with thee is forgiveness of sin, * so that thou art served with reverential fear.
I hope in the Lord, * my soul hopes in his word;
My soul longs for the Lord, * more than watchmen for the dawn.
More than watchmen for the dawn, * let Israel long for the Lord,
Because with the Lord there is mercy, * and with him plentiful redemption:
And he shall redeem Israel * from all her iniquities.

"The Psalms: A Prayerbook, also the Canticles of the Roman Breviary in Latin and English" 1946 - Benziger Bros., ©****1945. “New English Translation with Ecclesiastical Approbation including The New Latin Version From the Hebrew by The Professors of the Pontifical Biblical Institute Authorized by Pope Pius XII.”

“Out of the depths I cry unto thee, O Lord, Lord, hear my voice! Let thine ears become attentive to the voice of my supplication. If thou, O Lord, keep the memory of offenses, Lord, who shall stand? But with thee there is forgiveness of sins, so that thou art served with reverential fear. I hope in the Lord, my soul hopes in his word; My soul longs for the Lord, More than watchmen for the dawn. More than watchmen for he dawn, Israel longs for the Lord, Because with the Lord there is mercy and with him plentiful redemption: And he shall redeem Israel from all her iniquities.”

**“My Daily Psalm Book” Fr. Frey 1947 **
“The New English Translation from the New Latin Version”

Out of the depths I cry to thee, O Lord, O Lord, hear my voice! Let thy ears be attentive to the voice of my supplication. If thou shouldst remember sins, O Lord, O Lord, who could bear it? But with thee is forgiveness, that thou mayest be served with reverence. I hope in the Lord, my soul hopes in his word; my soul waits for the Lord, more than watchmen for the dawn. More than watchmen for the dawn, let Israel wait for the Lord, For with the Lord is mercy and with him is plenteous redemption: And he shall redeem Israel from all its sins.

 

[Cranch]

…1941’s “thy ears” is a definite typo…

Now I see this usage in Fr. Frey, so maybe not a typo (it ought to be, though, IMHO).

mmortal03 - You have pointed out the similarities between “CCD 1941” and 1946 Benziger Bros. One of the most interesting “fingerprints” that may point to a connection is the shared use of the feminine pronoun in reference to Israel in the last line of Psalm 129. It is found in none of the others.

 

[mmortal03]

Now I see this usage in Fr. Frey, so maybe not a typo (it ought to be, though, IMHO).

From what I have heard, it isn’t necessarily incorrect to place “thy” before a vowel sound, it just doesn’t naturally flow as well. I could be wrong, though.

mmortal03 - You have pointed out the similarities between “CCD 1941” and 1946 Benziger Bros. One of the most interesting “fingerprints” that may point to a connection is the shared use of the feminine pronoun in reference to Israel in the last line of Psalm 129. It is found in none of the others.

Yep, “she” is why I said what I did.

 

[Jerry-Jet]

In October of 1952 the first eight books of the Old Testament were published which would later on–after additional changes in Genesis become the NAB Old Testament.

So it appears that if one doesn’t like the NAB Old Testament but does want to get as modern a Catholic translation as possible without throwing the Douay Rheims into the toilet that the:

Confraternity Bibles such as Carol and others have for sale in 1952 are as modern as you can get.

The Confraternity New Testament translation doesn’t stray very far from the Douay Rheims Challoner.

For all of the Old Testament except for Psalms you have the Douay Rheims Challoner.

And in my opinion the peculiar translation of Psalms that uses an English translation of the Latin Translation of the Hebrew Psalms with some archaic language–

That’s the most poetic lyrical Catholic version of Psalms that I have ever read.

To me it sounds better than the Olinger psalms which would one day be the NAB Psalms and better than even the Douay Rheims Psalms.

Who says that only the KJV can have beautiful inspiring English language?

While my quest for the perfect bible has not ended–

the 1952 Confraternity Douay Bibles with this particular version of the Psalms are the best compromise that I have ever seen.

Such a Bible is not perfect or perfectly accurate–but it is Catholic and not filled with Protestant bias–though of course Challoner sometimes departed in my opinion too far from the vulgate in the direction of the KJV.

Now I think my next project should be to take one of those 1971 versions of the RSV that also had the Catholic changes from 1966–get rid of all the Protestantisms that drive me crazy—and print my own version of the RSV-CE for myself only of course.

On the other hand–how would that be any different from Protestants doing the same thing?

So my question is this: Is it ethical to try to come up with the best possible version of the RSV-CE for your own personal use without asking for permission?

I think the answer is no.

Since it is No!–my newest favorite Bible version will be these 1952 Confraternity Douay Bibles with the peculiar Psalms.

Still praying and waiting for an English version of the Nova Vulgata and a more improved RSV-CE 3d edition!

If a few of the contributors to this thread got together I think Catholics could have a really great Bible!

Maybe some Cathlic Bible scholar somwhere who has the right connections will read our quests for the perfect Bible and provide us with maybe not a perfect one–but with a better one some day!

 

[anthony022071]

I don’t want to segment this thread any further, so regarding the NAB, please see the following threads for a start, and then use the search feature for more. This has been discussed very frequently on this board:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=155725
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=2438411
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=5261
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=521
google.com/search?source=ig&hl=en&q=%22New+American+Bible%22+OR+NAB+site%3Aforums.catholic-questions.org&btnG=Google+Search

Regarding Jerome’s letters, could you start a new thread on that?

I will PM you the info on the RSV:CE.

Thanks!

Thanks for your responses.

 

[mmortal03]

So my question is this: Is it ethical to try to come up with the best possible version of the RSV-CE for your own personal use without asking for permission?

I think the answer is no.

I don’t see the harm if it would be for personal use. It would just be putting down on paper what is in your head. No use cluttering your head with all of it. Get it down on page.

I realize the problems with distributing or selling it, but not of making your own private edition.

Still praying and waiting for an English version of the Nova Vulgata and a more improved RSV-CE 3d edition!

If a few of the contributors to this thread got together I think Catholics could have a really great Bible!

Maybe some Cathlic Bible scholar somwhere who has the right connections will read our quests for the perfect Bible and provide us with maybe not a perfect one–but with a better one some day!

I think a comparison and discussion of the accuracy of the relevant and different Latin Psalters is in order (from Wikipedia):

You’ve got the Greek/Septuagint translations into Latin, culminating in the Vulgate’s Versio Gallicana, which were used predominantly throughout Church history (skipping the earliest ones for brevity):

Versio Romana

Called the Versio Romana or Psalterium Romanum, the Roman Psalter of 384 was Jerome’s first revision of the psalter. It was made from the Versio Vetus Latina (from the Septuagint), and corrected to bring it more in line with the Septuagint. This version was by and large replaced by Jerome’s later versions except in Britain, where it continued to be used until the Norman Conquest in 1066. It is still used today in the Vatican basilica and in St. Mark’s Cathedral in Venice. It is similar to the version used in the Ambrosian Rite.

Versio Gallicana

The Versio Gallicana or Psalterium Gallicanum was Jerome’s second revision, which he made from the Greek of the Hexapla ca. 386-391. This became the psalter of the Vulgate bible, and the basis for Gregorian chant. It became the standard psalter used in the liturgy throughout the West from the time of Charlemagne until it was replaced in the 2nd edition of the breviary by the Versio Nova Vulgata in 2000. It is still used today by indult in some monasteries and churches and by traditionalist Catholics.

The style of this most influential psalter is unique. For instance, the following quote, which is preserved in the 1945 Versio Piana, is a familiar verse frequently set to music:

Rogate quae ad pacem sunt Ierusalem — Psalm 121(122):6

which means, “ask for the things which are for the peace of Jerusalem.” In contrast, Jerome’s newer translation from the Hebrew has the briefer, rogate pacem Ierusalem, i.e., “ask for the peace of Jerusalem.”

…And then you’ve got the Hebrew/Masorah Psalter translations into Latin, which have never really caught on universally it seems, but when you least expect it, someone always decides to revive them, just for kicks, culminating in the “redheaded stepchild” of 1945 that a generation of Catholics grew used to, and most recently, with the Nova Vulgata:

Versio juxta Hebraicum

This version was the last made by Jerome. It is often informally called the “Hebrew Psalter” despite being written in Latin. Rather than just revise the Gallicana, he translated these psalms anew from the Hebrew ca. 398-405. This psalter is found in a few very old manuscripts of the Vulgate. It was found in Spanish manuscripts of the Vulgate long after the Gallicanum supplanted it elsewhere. It is not clear that it was ever used in the liturgy.

Versio Piana

Under Pius XII in 1945, a new translation of the psalms, the Versio Piana, Psalterium Vaticanum or simply Psalterium novum or Novum Psalterium, was made from a reconstructed Hebrew text based largely on the Masoretic. Its Latin adopted a classical rather than a biblical style. This version is sometimes called the Bea psalter after its author, Augustin Cardinal Bea. Although acclaimed by some classicists, this neo-classical translation was disliked by many who prayed the psalms in Latin.[4] Its use in the liturgy was encouraged but not required. It can be found in many breviaries printed between 1945 and 1971.

Nonetheless, most Roman Catholic priests and laymen which by year 2000 were of the age of 60 grew up with the Versio Piana and it was the preferred version in many countries.

Versio Nova Vulgata

In 1969, a new psalter was published which translated the Masoretic text while keeping much of the poetry and style of the Gallican psalter. It has proved to be a popular alternative to Jerome’s Gallicana. The 1969 psalter follows the Masoretic numbering of the psalms, so Psalm 23 begins “Dominus pascit me.” It is the psalter used in the present day Roman breviary.

So, which is the most accurate?

 

[Jerry-Jet]

I liked whatever translation of the Psalms the Confraternity Bibles from SFH, Carol, and lak611 had from 1948-1952 were because they sounded prettier.

Of course how pretty a translation is doe not mean how accurate it is.

Which translation of the Psalms do their Bibles use?

Overall I’m not fond of the Masoretic text because it is recent and not ancient and I guess I’m guilty of believing that if Protestants like it and use it in many of their translations of the Old Testament that there must be something not pro-Catholic about it.

Of all of these Psalters previously mentioned which would come closest to the Nova Vulgata?

Does the Nova Vulgata vary much from the Vulgate when it comes to the Psalms?

Can anyone speculate on what Pope Benedict XVI would think is the most accurate Psalter?

 

[mmortal03]

I liked whatever translation of the Psalms the Confraternity Bibles from SFH, Carol, and lak611 had from 1948-1952 were because they sounded prettier.

Of course how pretty a translation is does not mean how accurate it is.

I like accurate and pretty.

Which translation of the Psalms do their Bibles use?

We don’t know what the English translation is called, but we are guessing that they are one of two translations from the Versio Piana into English. (sorry to spoil your day)

Overall I’m not fond of the Masoretic text because it is recent and not ancient and I guess I’m guilty of believing that if Protestants like it and use it in many of their translations of the Old Testament that there must be something not pro-Catholic about it.

I don’t think it is for exactly these same reasons, but I also am more interested in the Greek Old Testament instead.

Of all of these Psalters previously mentioned which would come closest to the Nova Vulgata?

Well, I did mention the Nova Vulgata as well, but from how it is designed, it is supposed to be of the style of the Gallicana, but from the critical edition of those Benedictine monks. I’d like more info on this critical edition.

Does the Nova Vulgata vary much from the Vulgate when it comes to the Psalms?

Don’t ya wish you could read Latin?

Can anyone speculate on what Pope Benedict XVI would think is the most accurate Psalter?

I think he would be required to argue that the original languages are what is most accurate, but that the Nova Vulgata comes the closest. I don’t know if that is the reality, just what I think he would say.

 

[Jerry-Jet]

I have to believe that they use the Versio Romana in the Vatican basilica for a reason.

Do you think that those people in the Vatican know what they’re taking about?

 

[mmortal03]

I have to believe that they use the Versio Romana in the Vatican basilica for a reason.

Do you think that those people in the Vatican know what they’re taking about?

Yeah, I just doubt it is because of accuracy, but instead because of tradition. It is nice to know that they use it there, but why didn’t they ever switch to the Versio Gallicana?