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Jehuty_X
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// cool…no problems with pages falling off??? i’ve read reviews about that on amazon’s site…
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CalCatholic
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No, I have a hardback copy also that I have had for over a year, and neither one has lost any pages.
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Jehuty_X
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// cool…thanks…
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Omyo12
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From what I’ve heard, not all of the suggestions the Vatican made were incorporated.
That is why I started this thread in the first place to see exactly what changes were made between the RSVCE and RSV2CE.
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Manfred
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Omyo,
You are quite right. The RSV-2CE is far from conforming to Liturgiam Authenticam.
E.g., you still won’t read, “Amen, amen, I say to you…”; it still didn’t correct Luke 1:34 to read, “How shall this be, since I know not man?”
Expunging the thee/thou/thine form does not necessarily a good translation make.
I only wish mmortal03’s excellent comparative analyses were still available on line for us all to review. Please visit the thread “RSV-CE Needs Corrections”, as some bits and pieces may be found there.
And thanks be to God you got your thread back on track and away from all that blabbering about “bindings”!
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CalCatholic
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Well you better notify Ignatius Press that they are using false advertising, because that is what they are printing in their RSV-2CE Bibles.Omyo,
You are quite right. The RSV-2CE is far from conforming to Liturgiam Authenticam.
E.g., you still won’t read, “Amen, amen, I say to you…”; it still didn’t correct Luke 1:34 to read, “How shall this be, since I know not man?”
Expunging the thee/thou/thine form does not necessarily a good translation make.
I only wish mmortal03’s excellent comparative analyses were still available on line for us all to review. Please visit the thread “RSV-CE Needs Corrections”, as some bits and pieces may be found there.
And thanks be to God you got your thread back on track and away from all that blabbering about “bindings”!
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Omyo12
Guest
Not really, it reads:
“This edition was revised according to Liturgiam Authenticam”
and it’s true, aside from changing the archaic language, some phraseology was also changed:
Mary is now called “full of grace” in Luke 1:28
a cup is now called a “chalice” (though I prefer cup)
Psalm 139 now read:
“I praise you, for I am wondrously made. Wonderful are your works! You know me right well…”
as oppose to…
“I praise thee,** for thou art fearful and wonderful**. Wonderful are thy works! Thou knowest me right well…”
and these revisions are according to the Liturgiam Authenticam
The problem is, it could have simply done more. It’s not the perfect Catholic bible as many would hope.
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Jehuty_X
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// after doing a long search online, so far, i was not able to find any links on the changes between the rsv-ce and rsv-2ce…the only thing i find is pretty much the same thing that is mentioned on ignatius’s site…
// oh, omyo12, sorry for getting off topic and not notifying it on my post…
// oh, omyo12, sorry for getting off topic and not notifying it on my post…
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CalCatholic
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Let me know when you find a perfect Bible, because I also want to purchase it! All Bibles are translations and have their flaws, you just have to find the one with flaws that you can live with.
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CalCatholic
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Maybe the only way to find out all the changes made to the RSV-2CE is to get a copy of both and start going through them line by line (I’d start with the New Testament).
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Omyo12
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No one’s asking for a “perfect” Catholic Bible, even if they incorporated all the Vatican suggestions and followed the Liturgiam Authenticam tooth and nail it wouldn’t be “perfect”
In fact, the only Bible that pretty much is 100% Catholic in its renderings is the Douay-Rheims…
However what I’m saying, and what some other people are agreeing with me on, is that the RSV-2CE didn’t incorporate all of the suggestions made by the Vatican. Does it make it any less of a Bible? of course not!
However, it had the list at hand, but they didn’t do it. That’s the shame people are pointing out.
It’s not about it being perfect…
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Omyo12
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It’s ok, the original list has been removed, I’ve been reading the RSV2CE and NAB New Testaments side-by-side and comparing the two. So far, I like the renditions of both (though the RSV2CE is higher up). The RSV2CE also flows a little better. I’m preferring the NAB in names and how it translates certain words.
The inclusive language of the NAB NT is minor. Many times the Greek word is ανθρωπος which literally means “human”
My biggest problem with the NAB is its rendering of Luke 1:28 among others
As for the RSV2CE, it indeed is more literal in its sentence structure and still flows beautifully. However, the NAB translates certain words more literally.
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Traditional_Ang
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Jehuty:
The Heading Omyo12 Pointed out in Post #14 was something that was Added by the PRINTER Just as Newspapers add Headlines to articles and editorials. Ignatius Press quite probably had nothing to do with the Heading. The Scriptural Text was looked at by multiple editors who all looked for possible errors. This Heading was looked at only by those who added it (It’s not part of the inspired text & not included in Liturgical Readings). Blaming that on the publishers is like blaming the fact that I’m fat on the doctors who removed my Acoustic Neuroma 14-1/2 years ago.
You should take to look through most books like you guys are looking through the Sacred Scriptures… You’ll find that, for every “Typo” or “Printer’s Error” you find in the Scriptures, you’d find at least 5 in the regular books. And, Remember, Most of what you’re seeing aren’t “Typos”, they’re “Printers Errors” - Errors that are still part of the Printing Process. One reason they are is something you should be familiar with, fallible human nature - we all fail and make mistakes, no matter how careful we are. and, No System has been developed that is completely free of human error or that can eliminate every human error. IOW, unless we want to spend inordinate amounts of time in “Error Detection & Revision”, there will be Errors.
How many are you willing to live with so you can have a nice looking hardbound Bible for $30.- ($20.- thru Amazon.com)?
Now, Unlike most publishing houses, Ignatius Press actually has people you can contact so any errors you find can be corrected in latter printings. All publishers need to know from you is the exact edition & Print Date you purchased (it’s in the front of the book), the Book of the Bible, Chapter & verse, the page it’s on and the nature of the “Error”.
You’ll find Ignatius Press’ Customer Service Department to be very good and responsive…
St. Mary’s has a bunch of St. Ignatius RSV-2CE in their Pews, and they love them & use them during the Pastor’s Homilies & for their Scripture studies. They have theirs because the RSV-2CE was the first translation I was happy with after I came back from my 20 year “walkabout”.
We don’t pick a version of the Scriptures for it’s lack of “Printer’s Errors” (NONE are free of these kind of “Errors”), but for it’s faithfulness to the original languages and it’s usefulness either as a “Reader” or as a “Study Bible”. Using that philosophy, I’ve stuffed into a Bookshelf and book-pack:
Ignatius Bible - RSV-2CE Hardback
Ignatius Study Bible Booklets
Ignatius Lectionary Complete Set RSV-2CE (don’t ask how)
Jerusalem Bible - Original Version, bought used (2 copies)
Revised English Version with Apocrypha
Orthodox Study Bible
New Oxford Annotated Bible With Apocrypha - Expanded Version (Revised Standard Version)
New American Bible (Catholic Study Edition)
New International Version (Archeological Study Edition)
Parallel New Testament in Greek & English (NASB - NIV)
And, As you can see if you read my postings, I’ll gladly use whatever the WEB gives me as well. I can say with absolute certainty that they all contain “Printer’s Errors” & other flaws. It not only comes down to what “Errors” & flaws you can live with, but how many Translations you feel you need to effectively study the Bible. Most teachers suggest 4 - 2 Formal Equivalence (RSV-2CE, NASB) & 2 Dynamic Equivalence (CEV, NLT). Many Translations sit somewhere in between: ( JB, NJB, NAB, NEB, REB, NIV) and are perfectly useful for most people.
You have decide which ONES work better for you. I hope this makes things a little clearer for you.
Your Brother & Servant in Christ, Michael
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Traditional_Ang
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Omyo12:
I can only tell you Fr. Joseph Fessio, S.J. did his Doctoral Dissertation the then Fr. Joseph Ratzinger. He also still attends a seminar with several other fellow students every summer with the now Pope Benedict XVI at Castel Gandolfo. Fr. Joseph Fessio is the Founder & Editor in Chief of Ignatius Press, and very little is done by IP that doesn’t have his approval.
Fr. Fessio is a first rate Theologian surpassed by few in the Church, and, unlike many you’ve heard of, he’s orthodox to a fault. Any Changes that were on the Original Vatican List Ignatius Press didn’t make were approved by the Vatican, and probably by His Holiness himself.
One thing I think everyone needs to know, the RSV-2CE was produced for reading during the Liturgy. A LOT of the Faithful, and more than a few priests, had complained about the NAB, esp. the Revised Edition read at Mass in the 1990’s. Ignatius thought there might be a market there - they didn’t realize the USCCB got money from the sale of the NAB and the NAB Lectionaries - and they didn’t realize the USCCB would NEVER ALLOW a different Lectionary than theirs to be PURCHASED for use in Roman Catholic parishes in America.
As it is, The Ignatius Lectionary is approved for use in the Liturgy by the Vatican in all English Speaking Countries, and it is APPROVED for use in Jamaica & the Antilles. I think I can safely say that, if the Vatican requires the TAC to adopt a 3 year Lectionary, the Ignatius Lectionary would be adopted by the newly renamed “Anglican Catholic Church” . The Ignatius Lectionary is already used by Archbishop Hepworth & Bishop David Chislett in their parishes, & they like it.
In case you’re curious, the Ignatius Lectionary comes as a beautiful, and durable, 2 volume set, in the same way the USCCB’s NAB Lectionary does. and, Now you all know why the RSV-2CE reads so well.
Your Brother & Servant in Christ, Michael
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Traditional_Ang
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McCorm45:
Fr. Fessio is the Editor of Ignatius Press - You guessed right on that one. Ignatius Press is the “small publisher” that has the contract to publish Pope Benedict’s books, among others. I’d say Fr. Fessio’s lucky if he had 15 people working in the Production Department who could have gone on your “fishing expedition”.
As I tried to say earlier, I’m sure most of these details were worked out in meetings, first with Cardinal Ratzinger and then with his IMMEDIATE successor AFTER Cardinal Ratzinger became Pope Benedict XVI. Even if the notes weren’t shredded, they’re spread over 3 or 4 major cities (Rome, Ave Maria University, Denver & San Francisco). and, I’m sure NO ONE remembers enough of the details of these hours & hours of meetings for anyone to reconstruct them!
You’re probably the least responsible for this feeling, but I just can’t shake the feeling that almost everyone here is applying a standard and a level of scrutiny to the RSV-2CE NO Translation, including the beloved DR could possibly survive. That’s why I’m saying to try to buy and have at least 2 or 3 Translations for use in STUDYING the Scriptures, and then use one of them for a “Carry” or Reading Bible.
Your Brother & Servant in Christ, Michael
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mccorm45
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Yeah, I am certainly aware of who Fr. Fessio is and what his role is with Ignatius Press. (I have a number of Ignatius Press books and I have heard Fr. Fessio speak on a couple of occasions.) But anytime someone posts on a blog saying they are a particular person, it is always prudent to be cautious on verifying that it is the actual person, in this case Fr. Fessio, who made the comments.
As for your reasoning behind why there are no details about what was changed to make the RSV-2CE thats fine. All I know is that many of the other major Bible translations out there, for example the NIV/TNIV or NLT/NLT2 have documentation, via the web or book form, which explains what they did in updating the translation. They also list the various Bible scholar/translators who were involved in the process. Even the original RSV-CE documented all the changes they made to the NT in the appendix. So the RSV-2CE does none of this because those involved in the project didn’t keep their notes or no one remembers enough of the details? That’s sounds a bit fishy to me.
So, while I have no real problem with the RSV-2CE for what it is, I tend to think it is really not a second edition, but rather an uneven “updating” of a fifty year old translation.
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Donald45
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This may sound a bit pedantic, but my main problem with the 2nd edition of the RSV-CE is the paper thay chose, which is of a kind of glossy “magazine” quality. The glare from this shiny paper makes reading a frustrating, and often infuriating, task. Anyone who spends much time studying the Bible will likely avoid this edition if they value their eyesight. I don’t know who decided on this paper, but they dropped the ball badly. I’ll stick with the 1st edition until the 2nd is printed on a far more readable material.
Gaudium de veritate,
Don
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Gaudium de veritate,
Don
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Manfred
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Well said, Tim, VERY well said!
Your “uneven updating” is very close to what I call “a work-in-progress”.
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