RSV not so great? Really good?

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I just read an Orthodox article saying how and why the RSV is such a poor translation, etc…
they say the KJV is the most accurate to the original Greek, how do you all feel about this?
 
I just read an Orthodox article saying how and why the RSV is such a poor translation, etc…
they say the KJV is the most accurate to the original Greek, how do you all feel about this?
Well, I suppose every individual is entitled to his/her opinions, but the KJV?! Come-on! 😉 I like the RSV-CE myself.
 
Maybe you can share with us the arguments in the article. Otherwise, how are people supposed to respond with rationality?
 
I personally prefer the KJV and the NKJV.

These are the only two NT English versions that are based on the Received Text i/o the Alexandrian–sometimes called Critical–Text.

While the OT of the NKJV is based on the Hebrew, major differences from the LXX are at least given in the notes.

I’m looking forward to getting my Orthodox Study Bible with the OT based on the LXX.
 
well, yes I will try and figure out how to post a link 😊
Copy and paste it in and it will work. If you want to have text show for the link then it looks like this:

[/ url]

Just delete the extra space after the slash.](thelinkgoeshere)
 
ok, this is part of the article I was reading:

"Most modern English Bible translations are based on bogus versions of the Scriptures. Unfortunately, no English translation of the Bible has been made using the Byzantine text-type manuscripts of the New Testament since the King James Version (KJV) in 1611. The others are all based on the eclectic Greek New Testament manuscripts and various Hebrew Old Testament texts. The bottom line is that manuscripts which the Orthodox Church did not use or copy have been elevated above those texts which the Church has preserved by modern and contemporary Scripture scholars and translators. Sadly, but perhaps significantly indicative, is the fact that the scholars who put together those eclectic critical texts decisively reject the Byzantine (that is to say, Orthodox) text-type, claiming that the Byzantine text was corrupted by Orthodox copyists eager to conform the text of Scripture to Orthodox theology as it developed over the first several centuries of the Church’s life…
Modern translations obscure the Divinity of Christ. In what can only be a return to the ancient heresy of Arius, even the much touted 1952 Revised Standard Version (RSV) translation of Scripture tends to minimize Christ’s divine nature. Forty years ago the King James translation was widely impugned for being based on the Greek Byzantine texts which were called corrupt — an amazing accusation considering the pedigree of the eclectic critical texts. In the liberal theological milieu of that time, many Protestant theologians denied not only the virgin birth, but also the divinity of Christ and His resurrection. One curious feature of the RSV translation is its apparent mixture of old and new English; the older traditional second person singular pronoun, thou/thee/thy, is intermixed with the nondescript modern ye/you/you. While at first glance this seems chaotic, it actually serves as a hidden code. The traditional thou usage is employed when God is addressed, but you whenever anyone else is addressed…The clearly Protestant bias against the Theotokos, and her Orthodox definition as critical to preserving the divinity of Christ is also very evident in the RSV. Consider Matthew 1:25 (KJV): (Joseph) knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son; and he called his name Jesus. But in the RSV: (Joseph) knew her not until she had borne a son; and he called his name Jesus. From the Byzantine, Orthodox, texts, the KJV tells us that Mary brought forth not a son, but her firstborn — precluding her having had previous children. Moreover, He is clearly her son; but not Joseph’s. Note how the RSV is distinguished from the KJV in Luke 2:33; after Simeon returned Jesus to His mother, the narrative tells us (KJV): Joseph and his mother marveled at those things which were spoken of him. But the RSV: And his father and his mother marveled at what was said about him. The RSV infers that Joseph is Jesus’ father, presumably his biological father — a clear refutation of the dogma of virgin birth…The Byzantine text is clearly reflected in the KJV; the eclectic text by the RSV…There are many more examples, but let us simply note one more, I Corinthians 15:47, which needs no further comment. KJV: The first man is of the earth, earthly: the second man is the Lord from heaven. But the RSV: The first man was from the earth, a man of dust; the second man is from heaven.

The Corruption of Paraphrased Bibles. There is no need in this article to provide such critical analysis of the various other translations which followed the RSV (e.g, NIV, NAB); all are even more flawed" (:hypno:) “…What Translation Should I Use?The answer is this: the King James Version (KJV) is the most reliable and faithful English translation. Unfortunately, it is written in an archaic, 500 year old style of English. Although not as incomprehensible as the 2000 year old Greek of the New Testament and Liturgy is to modern Greek speakers, it is still awkward and difficult for many to understand…”

Source: Greek Orthodox Diocese of Denver Bulletin: March 1995, Volume 3, Number 3., pp. 14-17.

read the entire article article here: www.geocities.com/trvalentine/orthodox/bible_texts.html

:hmmm:
now I realize this article is written from an Orthodox perspective, but seems to bring up some interesting points, and as I have recently begun to attended D.L. at an eastern catholic parish, I had recently sought out a New Testament of the same translation as they use (the RSV) so that I could bring my little copy to read as the scriptures are chanted so I won’t miss anything, at least until I get used to the chanting/readings (so far I find it depends on who’s chanting 😉 ) and the calender I picked up provides daily reading references, so I figured I’d incorporate the daily readings (which are different readings than the RC ones) with my morning prayers at my little altar/icon “corner”…so I stumbled upon this article, and thought I’d submit the issue to you all for your opinions… (Mr. Woodstock? What do think of these arguments?)
anyway, thanks in advance for all your opinions and (name removed by moderator)ut!

:blessyou:
 
"Most modern English Bible translations are based on bogus versions of the Scriptures. Unfortunately, no English translation of the Bible has been made using the Byzantine text-type manuscripts of the New Testament since the King James Version (KJV) in 1611.

This is not true. The NKJV is also based on the Byzantine/Received Text in the NT.

I had recently sought out a New Testament of the same translation as they use (the RSV) so that I could bring my little copy to read as the scriptures are chanted so I won’t miss anything, at least until I get used to the chanting/readings (so far I find it depends on who’s chanting )


**Two things:
  1. The idea of saying holy words in an ordinary speaking voice is unknown in most world religions, and was unheard of in Christianity until the invention of the Low Mass. When the lessons are chanted properly, they are actually easier to understand. A danger of simply reading the Lessons is the tempation to, even unconsiously, give one’s own personal emphases or interpretation to them; chanting suppresses this tendency, allowing the Scriptural words to work by their own intrinsic power.
Read over the lessons privately before or after Liturgy. Don’t stick your nose in a book when they are solemnly proclaimed by chanting them in the assembly. It’s not for nothing the Deacon says, “Wisdom! Let us attend!”
  1. The texts of the Lessons as found in a Bible do not always match the liturgical text found in lectionaries, Menaia, etc. **
 
I just read an Orthodox article saying how and why the RSV is such a poor translation, etc…
they say the KJV is the most accurate to the original Greek, how do you all feel about this?
Like Greek, the KJV is an archaic version of the common language that is readily misinterpreted, but quite beautiful to hear.

In both cases, the modern vernacular is less precise a language, but this lesser precision is due to language elements that are no longer used.

I don’t speak the language of the KJV. Modern Greeks don’t speak Koine. With attention, I can understand the English of the KJV. Likewise, modern Greek speakers can understand much of Koine…

But in both cases, much of the language is idiomatic, and that idiom is long lost to the casual listener.
 
bpbasilphx said:
yeah, I thought about that, “Let us attend” does not mean look down and read, I think I will be taking your advice on that one! :o
 
The KJV is not my faveourite because it leaves out 7 books and uses old fashioned language.
 
Hello,

I should first remark that this would probably be best put in the Scripture forum.

Whoever wrote this sounds like they really don’t know what they are talking about. Really! It makes him sound outright ridiculous. I wouldn’t be surprised if he is or at one time was a “KJV only” fundamentalist.

Now, granted that the RSV-CE is not a perfect translation (if there can be such a thing). But it is infinitely better than the KJV. Just do a search on ‘KJV errors’. I think the number was around 30,000 errors. And beyond that, it is missing 7 whole books!

Quite frankly, the RSV-CE is the best translation in modern, standard English. If you like archaic language, and that is why you are drawn to the KJV, go with the Douay-Rheims version.

I’ll just quickly go over a couple points:
Modern translations obscure the Divinity of Christ. In what can only be a return to the ancient heresy of Arius, even the much touted 1952 Revised Standard Version (RSV) translation of Scripture tends to minimize Christ’s divine nature.
Where? How? Show me one place where they took out a reference to Christ’s divinity.
The clearly Protestant bias against the Theotokos, and her Orthodox definition as critical to preserving the divinity of Christ is also very evident in the RSV.
Again, where? The author of the article is apparently unaware that the Protestants get their views not from a faulty translation, but from a faulty interpretation. Indeed, the KJV is a Protestant Bible version. If it is so great, why then are the Protestants in the errors the author claims cannot come from their Bible version?
Consider Matthew 1:25 (KJV): (Joseph) knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son; and he called his name Jesus. But in the RSV: (Joseph) knew her not until she had borne a son; and he called his name Jesus. From the Byzantine, Orthodox, texts, the KJV tells us that Mary brought forth not a son, but her firstborn — precluding her having had previous children.
The author obviously doesn’t have access to a dictionary. Till, 'til, til, until are just different spellings of the same word.
Moreover, He is clearly her son; but not Joseph’s. Note how the RSV is distinguished from the KJV in Luke 2:33; after Simeon returned Jesus to His mother, the narrative tells us (KJV): Joseph and his mother marveled at those things which were spoken of him. But the RSV: And his father and his mother marveled at what was said about him. The RSV infers that Joseph is Jesus’ father, presumably his biological father — a clear refutation of the dogma of virgin birth…
I didn’t see Joseph’s name in the Greek version. It seems to say father “πατήρ”. The author might want to check the verses that say the Jesus was thought to be the son of Joseph, the carpenter. He might also want to read some of the Church Fathers who write about Saint Joseph.
The Byzantine text is clearly reflected in the KJV; the eclectic text by the RSV…There are many more examples, but let us simply note one more, I Corinthians 15:47, which needs no further comment. KJV: The first man is of the earth, earthly: the second man is the Lord from heaven. But the RSV: The first man was from the earth, a man of dust; the second man is from heaven.
Please show me how this is different.
 
Hi JMJ_coder, thanks for the time you took in your response, I appreciate it. I put this thread in the eastern catholic section because the RSV is the translation they use in the Melkite liturgy I am about to attend, and throughout the majority of Byz. catholic churches going by what I have read so far.
Did you read the whole article, by the way? I agree the differences seem minor and I don’t really care what they say, I have NAB, those little free NKJV they hand out on college campus from back in the day, and the Jerusalem bible, but I was looking for just your kind of response, educated and also informative, thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut! :cool:
shoot ~ was gonna make another point, gotta go!!!
 
I personally prefer the KJV and the NKJV.

These are the only two NT English versions that are based on the Received Text i/o the Alexandrian–sometimes called Critical–Text.

While the OT of the NKJV is based on the Hebrew, major differences from the LXX are at least given in the notes.

I’m looking forward to getting my Orthodox Study Bible with the OT based on the LXX.
You don’t have to wait. There is already a new translation from the LXX and the 1904 Patriarchal text on the internet that is soon to be published. You can download the entire New and Old Testaments here. There are also extensive commentaries and introductions included that are extraordinarily helpful.

Enjoy…

Yours in Christ
Joe
 
Hello,
Hi JMJ_coder, thanks for the time you took in your response, I appreciate it. I put this thread in the eastern catholic section because the RSV is the translation they use in the Melkite liturgy I am about to attend, and throughout the majority of Byz. catholic churches going by what I have read so far.
Did you read the whole article, by the way? I agree the differences seem minor and I don’t really care what they say, I have NAB, those little free NKJV they hand out on college campus from back in the day, and the Jerusalem bible, but I was looking for just your kind of response, educated and also informative, thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut! :cool:
shoot ~ was gonna make another point, gotta go!!!
No, at the time I read only the part you quoted as I was in a rush to go to Mass. I have now read the whole article - and I still think the author sounds ridiculous 9 times out of 10. This is definitely not an article I would present as scholarly or use to try to defend a position.
 
Hello,

No, at the time I read only the part you quoted as I was in a rush to go to Mass. I have now read the whole article - and I still think the author sounds ridiculous 9 times out of 10. This is definitely not an article I would present as scholarly or use to try to defend a position.
well, thanks again
 
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