Rubbing and kissing to images of Jesus

[chesterlab]

Jo, the jehovahs witnesses of course, would make the claims they do about all things Christian. Don’t let them in your house. They are a cult. If I had more time and space I would give you a little history of the Jws. If you want to get rid of them, keep some Catholic tracts by your door and tell them you want them to take them, since they want to give you all their propaganda. They believe anything Christian (or not JW) is possessed by demons, so they will leave your doorway post haste. I chased one out to her car one day when I attempted to give her a bible. They never come back after that, because then you are marked by the Jws as a “goat.” I’m glad I’m a goat.

 

[WilT]

Since the actions you describe (rubbing and kissing) are not exclusively acts of divine worship, you must know the person’s intention before you can rightly judge whether or not he is committing idolatry and really the only way to know his intention is for him to tell you. Jesus warned against making rash judgments and so, until you know for sure, it is best to give Catholics the benefit of the doubt in such matters.

Unlike the two Marys who were able to rub or embrace the feet of the risen Lord on Easter morning (Matt 28:9), because Jesus is now in heaven and they are on the earth, Catholics cannot physically show such signs of their affection for Jesus directly to him and so sometimes they show their affection for Jesus indirectly to him through the statues depicting him. The statues themselves are not the ultimate objects of Catholics’ affection (that would indeed be idolatry) but the statues serve merely as symbolic, physical focal points for the affection Catholics wish to show for Jesus Christ himself.

It is not a particularly easy read and the language it uses is a little antiquated, especially its broad, archaic understanding of the word “worship,” but the old Catholic Encyclopedia has an article on “Veneration of Images” that might help, especially the last section with the now somewhat misleading title “The principles of image-worship.”

 

[fred_conty]

In my country, for Catholics, there is such thing is rubbing the statue of Jesus then you make the sign of the cross. Also at Christmas eve, at the church, you are supposed to kiss the statue of baby Jesus.

How to prove that these are not idolatry?

Kissing is an expression of love not necessarily idolatry. Do you adore/worship everything you kiss?

 

[TK421]

@(name removed by moderator):

If somebody wants to believe that Catholics are idolaters bad enough, they are going to succeed at it. I don’t see how “toning it down” for that group of people is beneficial for ecumenism or evangalization. You just have to let them believe whatever it is that they insist on believing. If they are eventually ready to have an adult conversation, you can graciously have it.

Even if one were to pointlessly and irrationally concede on the subject of statues and images, and the Church were to cease all expression of adoration through these visual mediums (to her lose) there is still one thing that it absolutely cannot concede on, which is the fact that we worship the Eucharist. When we bow before the Eucharist, we are bowing before the Real Presence of Christ. This is doctrine. There is no amount of expression of adoration that could possibly be “too much” here.

This is something I’ve said on multiple threads: a great asset we have for evangalization and ecumenism is not on what we have in common with others, but on what makes us different. It worked in ancient Rome, and it will work today too. Those are the things that are going to catch people’s attention and baffle and intrigue them and make them start talking. It’s what is going to make them want to ask questions and - God willing - find out more. It’s the human condition to be exploratory. We have our noses in all things that are bizarre and foreign to us, which can be a cause for great evil, but also of great good. If Catholics become indistinguishable from the rest, we lose that edge.

 

[Rosebud77]

The object is a visible medium through which you are expressing affection towards a heavenly person. Similarly, when you say “I love you” over the phone, it is not the phone who you are saying “I love you” to, but rather, the person, who is in that moment invisible to you.

I’m the sacristan at my parish. When I walk into the Church and it is completely empty, I will hug / kiss the cheeks, hands, and feet of the St Therese statue. I will also kiss the Immaculate Heart & Sacred Heart. I frequently kiss the holy images that I keep in my apartment, especially the face, hands, and Immaculate Heart of my mother, and even her lips (not an odd thing in traditional cultures) but also the wounds of Jesus, the image of St Catherine, St Therese, and St Joseph. Many saints were likewise highly expressive in their adoration, and I have found this to be enormously beneficial to me. The 1st century Christians greeted one another with a kiss, and this continues in many modern cultures, although regrettably American culture has a rather confused understanding of this.

Unless you have a threatened immune system as a result of a condition, worrying about hygiene is ill-advised and even counterproductive. Many 21st century people suffer from weak immune systems precisely because they go to inordinate ends to avoid germs. Eat fruit & vegetables, and avoid stress in so far as it is possible, and you will optimize your chances to be healthy. If you catch a bug, your immune system will very quickly pummel it, and it will be even further protected from those strains in the future.

disagree totally with your last para… and after reading your post will never go near a statue again. I have seen this kind of thing here in Ireland and it comes across very strongly as superstition not any kind of faith… yukk, frankly! I do notmean to cause offence by the way. God is spirit and I worship Him in spirit and in truth…

 

[TK421]

None taken. I understand a person’s reservations in this, especially given the considerable opposition.

I follow the consistent practices of the many saints & Doctors of the Church, as well as people within the Gospels, in being very external and kinesthetic in my worship, and would be content and unintimidated to maintain my practice if 7 billion people on Earth disagreed. I do not fear the iconoclasts from Islam or Protestantism, nor their accusations, but feel sadness for them, that they are deprived of what I enjoy.

If sacred art were forbidden under pain of death, I would keep an image of Mary & Jesus in a pocket beneath my skin if need be. Now that I’ve had a taste of visual & kinesthetic worship - of worshiping with my entire body - there’s no way I could go back.

edit: This isn’t information I would readily share with someone if discussing religion. I would only discuss spiritual milk, and move on to the steak & peppers later. I’m a crazy statue-kissing Catholic, but also a tactical one.

 

[Rosebud77]

I "worship with my entire body " also but kissing statues is not worship. Ah but you are new! Time will bring greater wisdom