Rudeness in church

[neiacatholic]

Good for you for bringing your children to Mass.

Our Sunday morning Mass is full of children and some days it is quite loud.

But you know what — those children will someday be adults who were taught that Mass was important enough to have to attend.

You can’t have it both ways – you can’t teach children the importance of Mass by not taking them and being that example.

When I was young if we misbehaved during Mass we were taken outside and spanked.

If you did that today — you would be handed over to child services.

Our church is fairly quiet before Mass – but you know what – I am glad it is noisy after Mass.

We are a community and it is our responsiblity to visit and find out how each other is doing – being a community is Catholic.

 

[PPeterson]

I try to page attention during mass and “keep my eyes on my own paper” so to speak. But lately I’ve noticed more people allowing young, disruptive children remain in church instead of taking them out and a lot of people talking directly before and after mass.
I love kids and know through experience it’s hard to keep little ones quiet and still during mass. But why are some parents so oblivious when their children are being noisy or are just too active to sit in the big church instead of the crying room or narthex (which is our crying room)? Yesterday at mass a couple in front of us allowed their little boy to stand on the seat and then helped him to stand on the rail of the seat in front of them!
Also, on the way out of mass, a lady behind me yelled out to her friend a row over from us as we were leaving. I know that we all like to say hello to friends from church, but what happened to the idea of talking in a quiet voice until you get outside?
I don’t mean to sound curmudgeonly but can’t help but notice these things happening more and more.

disapproving glances and posts like this tend to initially make me feel my family and I are not welcome at church. i’m an adult now though, and there’s no excuse for me indulging in “oh how i suffer” thinking. i think in reality we both have to put it behind us and not take ourselves too seriously. i try to accept that while i need to do my best to make sure we don’t disrupt mass for others, no matter how hard i try to keep my toddler in line there’s probably someone itching to disapprove and gossip about us to their more decorous peers (possibly on catholic answers). you might have to accept that being in church with other families and children is going to get under your skin sometimes, but that you can still be grateful for having the opportunity to celebrate the sacrament along with your community.

 

[cathguy]

Some parents are more skilled than others at dealing with these issues.

I got good tips on how to deal with kids and Church from Steve Wood’s “Legacy” and 123 Magic for Christian Parents. I combined both books advice, not to pat myself on the back, my 3 kids under the age of 7 are rarely if ever distracting in Mass.

Here is what has worked for me. Other parents may disagree, but it has worked for me.

1. Sit up front. The more traditional the Mass the more liturgical action and stuff going on, the better. Let the kids see what is going on.
2. Carrots and sticks. My kids go out to McDonalds after Mass every Sunday, IF none of them get “counted to three” during Church. If one of them blows it… no McDonalds. Carrot: McDonalds Stick: no McDonalds.
3. The kids have to participate. My four year old son stands, kneels, and sits at appropriate times. This is habit.
4. ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS go potty BEFORE Mass starts. We will NOT leave Mass for this purpose except in extreme emergency.
5. If a child of mine is disruptive during Mass and gets counted they get taken to the back of Church for a time out. They know that if this happens, MickyDs is absolutely out of the question.
6. Preparation. For a while, my son’s favorite game was playing Mass, and his favorite DVD was the Latin Mass DVD for children. We have sat through the EWTN Mass tons of times and explained what the rules for Mass are and what our expectations are.

All of this combined enables my kids to be pretty good, although I have seen better.

At one Latin Mass I attended a father was there with his seven children. They were in a row from tallest to shortest. I kid you not… these kids were darn near PERFECT. (We are not there yet… ) But we WILL BE!

Advice for the rest of you:

Parents are at Church doing what is right by bringing their kids to Mass. Data shows:

1. Kids who attend Mass without their father will not grow up to be practicing Catholics. Parents therefore should not divide and conquer, with Mom taking one kid to Mass and Dad another. No. The family should go to Mass together. Dad’s place is in the pew… with the kids.
2. Parents are probably very embarrassed when their kids act up. Please show the parents charity. While my kids are very good now, it wasn’t always this way. In fact, for awhile, I had to struggle, especially when we first started going to the Extraordinary Form. Please be patient with parents. Nasty looks, comments, etc. etc. These don’t help. They just turn up the heat on the parents, making them more tense, and you DO NOT want to drive them from Church.
3. Crying babies are NOT a distraction. That is beautiful. You haven’t lived until you assisted at a Latin High Mass with all the incense, and the beautiful music, and the sounds of life filling the Church… the sounds of life includes babies. If you want a perfectly quiet Church join a cloister.

If you are not a parent, or you are a dissenter who had a small family by choice, do us all a favor and keep your thoughts to yourself. We don’t need to hear it.

As for the other issues:

Loud talking before and after Mass more often than not is a problem with the pastor not letting his expectations known. If your pastor is one that walks around and talks with people before and after Mass, then you have a hopeless situation. There is nothing you can do except respectfully speak with him.

 

[Faith1960]

What about the parents who bring snacks for their kids to eat during Mass? The sound of cellophane crinkling, crispy snacks being crunched and the mess some of them leave behind on the floor is ridiculous. More than once I’ve had crumbs under my feet from another Mass.

 

[cathguy]

My son was giggling during mass yesterday, sometimes he lay down, and once or twice (that I noticed) I got a dirty look from a woman sitting near us. Let me say now, there is no crying room or family room or anywhere in our church where I can take him to fuss. If I want to go to church, he has to come with me. I guess that woman was thinking what some of you have posted, that I’m not a great parent blah blah blah. My son has a learning disability. He is not as easy to communicate with or control as the “average” child. He also looks older than he is. Funny how looks can be deceiving that way. And I’d hate for some of you to have had to attend mass with him when we first started going, for at times he was so out of control I wanted to drag him out mid-mass and take him home. Had I done that though, I would be no better off then I am today, since I would have been reinforcing the bad behaviour by giving in and taking him home since that was his actual goal in the first place. Now he’s much calmer, and still learning appropriate church behaviour. This takes time, and not just my patience, but the patience of the whole parish community.

Believe me I know it’s hard, but please resist the temptation to judge others. Also, church should be the last place where we behave so judgmentally. We really should just be glad that children are there, learning and loving Christ.

Amen!

 

[cathguy]

What about the parents who bring snacks for their kids to eat during Mass? The sound of cellophane crinkling, crispy snacks being crunched and the mess some of them leave behind on the floor is ridiculous. More than once I’ve had crumbs under my feet from another Mass.

Are you a parent?

Look, the temptation to bring food to keep the kids quiet is very great. I don’t recommend it though.

One parent I knew had great success though doing this:

1. He brought M&Ms to Mass. Just a few. They were open already and in a bag.
2. When the kids were sitting still being good and not making noise he would surprise them by popping one M&M in their mouth. If they were being naughty, no M&M. (Carrot and stick…)

That worked for him. I though prefer not using the food method. I think the kids should be taught about the liturgy and should pay attention and not get food rewards.

But every parent is different.

 

[Faith1960]

Are you a parent?

Yes, I am.

 

[cathguy]

\Yesterday at mass a couple in front of us allowed their little boy to stand on the seat and then helped him to stand on the rail of the seat in front of them!\

**This is one advantage to a pewless church. Little children can be moved more easily to a place where they can see what’s happening, and they are not pinned to one spot.

There is an autistic child at our parish. Guess what? She’s part of the Church, too.**

This is INTERESTING.

The best Mass my kids ever had was in a Church basement and it was an EF.

The reason they were so good is this: the pews were new and they had a gap in them. There was a board for your back but under that board there was empty space and then the seat.

The empty space just happened to be eye level for my youngest at the time.

He sat there and stared at the Mass the entire time through that slat and he was RIVETED. Then they moved that TLM upstairs and the slat left… oh well…

It was cool for him though. His own little little window onto the liturgy.

 

[livnlern]

disapproving glances and posts like this tend to initially make me feel my family and I are not welcome at church. i’m an adult now though, and there’s no excuse for me indulging in “oh how i suffer” thinking. i think in reality we both have to put it behind us and not take ourselves too seriously. i try to accept that while i need to do my best to make sure we don’t disrupt mass for others, no matter how hard i try to keep my toddler in line there’s probably someone itching to disapprove and gossip about us to their more decorous peers (possibly on catholic answers). you might have to accept that being in church with other families and children is going to get under your skin sometimes, but that you can still be grateful for having the opportunity to celebrate the sacrament along with your community.

I don’t mind when children turn and look around during mass or look at books or even stand on the seat when they want to see the mass. What bothers me is when they act up and the parents do nothing to get them to behave. As a parent I can tell the difference between making an effort to get Johnny or Susie to behave or just ignoring their actions and expecting everyone else to do the same. I don’t “itch to disapprove and gossip” about parents and their children. I’m merely making an observation that people need to be considerate of others while in church. Children are going to talk and move around. I know this. But the parent needs to take them to the crying room if they are misbehaving. What’s so hard about that?

 

[Cristiano]

I don’t mind when children turn and look around during mass or look at books or even stand on the seat when they want to see the mass. What bothers me is when they act up and the parents do nothing to get them to behave. As a parent I can tell the difference between making an effort to get Johnny or Susie to behave or just ignoring their actions and expecting everyone else to do the same. I don’t “itch to disapprove and gossip” about parents and their children. I’m merely making an observation that people need to be considerate of others while in church. Children are going to talk and move around. I know this. But the parent needs to take them to the crying room if they are misbehaving. What’s so hard about that?

I think that the problem is that the parents might make an effort during Mass, but if they are not consistent in enforcing behaviors outside the Church then they kids will ignore them. I have seen that consistent parents might have issues from time to time but usually it does not last too long.

 

[Adeodatus]

Please place your cell phones, pagers, children and mouths on “silent mode”.

 

[markomalley]

I try to page attention during mass and “keep my eyes on my own paper” so to speak. But lately I’ve noticed more people allowing young, disruptive children remain in church instead of taking them out and a lot of people talking directly before and after mass.
I love kids and know through experience it’s hard to keep little ones quiet and still during mass. But why are some parents so oblivious when their children are being noisy or are just too active to sit in the big church instead of the crying room or narthex (which is our crying room)? Yesterday at mass a couple in front of us allowed their little boy to stand on the seat and then helped him to stand on the rail of the seat in front of them!
Also, on the way out of mass, a lady behind me yelled out to her friend a row over from us as we were leaving. I know that we all like to say hello to friends from church, but what happened to the idea of talking in a quiet voice until you get outside?
I don’t mean to sound curmudgeonly but can’t help but notice these things happening more and more.

The obvious question in my mind is how well (reverently) is the liturgy celebrated there?

The other question has to do with the state of catechesis in that parish?

 

[airforcemom]

My church is very small - we have no problem with children especially under 5 - after that age they should have learned how to behave during Mass - a child with a learning disability may take a little longer. My oldest had a disability but all 3 of my children started attending Mass at 3 weeks old so it became routine for them. What I have a problem with is adults not knowing the proper way to behave. Being a very small church when you walk through the door you are in the church - we have no cry room for either babies or adults – those who are trying to pray before and after Mass find it very difficult with all the noise. It was not as bad before Katrina but now it is. We hope to have a sound system installed soon so we can have the Rosary before Mass and hope that when the adults enter they will be respectful of the Rosary. What bothers my husband who sits in the back because of asthma is a group of elderly ladies who sit in the back and talk all through Mass so he has a problem hearing what is being said. They certainly know better - in the 40s, 50s and some of the 60s the area had a very strict priest from Germany and I’m sure as he looks down he is very disappointed at the disrespect during Mass.

 

[TwoDachshunds]

How terrible for someone to bring a cripple to church. Only healthy, quiet adults and their well behaved children should be allowed in a Catholic church.

You appear to be working on your PhD in Missing the Point.

 

[Elsport1]

My son is an “angel” at Novus Ordo Mass but when we go to EF things get a little iffy. We sit towards the front so he can see whats going on but it’s an awfully long “walk of shame” when he acts up. I’m at a loss as to how to make him behave for the last half hour of Mass. He’s 3 1/2 and often times ignoring his behavior is the best way to get it to stop. Please have patience with parents who bring their young children to Mass. We’re still trying to figure out how to be good holy parents.

 

[Jotobo]

Go and have your self some children and we will see how well you can keep them quite. Seriously, like 1 in 1000 kids under the age of 8 or 9 can sit still for longer than 30 seconds. Its a fact of life. Its not going to change. There is only so much a parent can do. They are kids and they are bursting at the seems with energy. Most kids simply can not sit for an hour and not cause some kind of disturbance.

Do people think the parents just dont care? Maybe some dont. But ultimately many are just ignoring them so they will stop. Kids often want an audience and if they dont have one they stop. It could also be they are trying to lead by example. To show the children week after week that they, as parents, can sit still and follow directions.

Now teenagers I think are a different ball game completely. They understand full well how to listen and can CHOOSE not to.

Just my two cents.

 

[Jotobo]

Some parents are more skilled than others at dealing with these issues.

I got good tips on how to deal with kids and Church from Steve Wood’s “Legacy” and 123 Magic for Christian Parents. I combined both books advice, not to pat myself on the back, my 3 kids under the age of 7 are rarely if ever distracting in Mass.

Here is what has worked for me. Other parents may disagree, but it has worked for me.

1. Sit up front. The more traditional the Mass the more liturgical action and stuff going on, the better. Let the kids see what is going on.
2. Carrots and sticks. My kids go out to McDonalds after Mass every Sunday, IF none of them get “counted to three” during Church. If one of them blows it… no McDonalds. Carrot: McDonalds Stick: no McDonalds.
3. The kids have to participate. My four year old son stands, kneels, and sits at appropriate times. This is habit.
4. ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS go potty BEFORE Mass starts. We will NOT leave Mass for this purpose except in extreme emergency.
5. If a child of mine is disruptive during Mass and gets counted they get taken to the back of Church for a time out. They know that if this happens, MickyDs is absolutely out of the question.
6. Preparation. For a while, my son’s favorite game was playing Mass, and his favorite DVD was the Latin Mass DVD for children. We have sat through the EWTN Mass tons of times and explained what the rules for Mass are and what our expectations are.

All of this combined enables my kids to be pretty good, although I have seen better.

At one Latin Mass I attended a father was there with his seven children. They were in a row from tallest to shortest. I kid you not… these kids were darn near PERFECT. (We are not there yet… ) But we WILL BE!

Advice for the rest of you:

Parents are at Church doing what is right by bringing their kids to Mass. Data shows:

1. Kids who attend Mass without their father will not grow up to be practicing Catholics. Parents therefore should not divide and conquer, with Mom taking one kid to Mass and Dad another. No. The family should go to Mass together. Dad’s place is in the pew… with the kids.
2. Parents are probably very embarrassed when their kids act up. Please show the parents charity. While my kids are very good now, it wasn’t always this way. In fact, for awhile, I had to struggle, especially when we first started going to the Extraordinary Form. Please be patient with parents. Nasty looks, comments, etc. etc. These don’t help. They just turn up the heat on the parents, making them more tense, and you DO NOT want to drive them from Church.
3. Crying babies are NOT a distraction. That is beautiful. You haven’t lived until you assisted at a Latin High Mass with all the incense, and the beautiful music, and the sounds of life filling the Church… the sounds of life includes babies. If you want a perfectly quiet Church join a cloister.

If you are not a parent, or you are a dissenter who had a small family by choice, do us all a favor and keep your thoughts to yourself. We don’t need to hear it.

As for the other issues:

Loud talking before and after Mass more often than not is a problem with the pastor not letting his expectations known. If your pastor is one that walks around and talks with people before and after Mass, then you have a hopeless situation. There is nothing you can do except respectfully speak with him.

Well said

 

[Cristiano]

Another answer is what my son’s Catholic school does. During the school Mass the children from pre-k, k, and the first two grades are assigned an adult or a buddy from 7th and 8th grade that models good behaviors and enforces them. These kids learn really fast and during the Sunday Mass are well behaved.

 

[neiacatholic]

Loud talking before and after Mass more often than not is a problem with the pastor not letting his expectations known. If your pastor is one that walks around and talks with people before and after Mass, then you have a hopeless situation. There is nothing you can do except respectfully speak with him.

What is with people.

I would hope you have a pastor that walks around and greets people.

I can understand keeping it quiet before Mass – but after Mass.

We are a community that is what Mass is all about – we are social being and I would hope that you would visit with people and find out how things are going.

That is what we are called to do as a community.

Go over and visit with these young parents.

Make them feel welcomed – rather than shun them and give them dirty looks and look like you wish they wouldn’t return. – Because that is what is sounds like people are doing. Even if you don’t say it or mean it – believe you me – I have heard from young families – and that is what they are thinking.

It wouldn’t hurt you to practice what you Jesus taught.

And if you need more time to pray – stay after Mass or go back to the church later.

If Jesus could respond to some of your comments – it would sound very much like his discussions with the Sadducees, Pharisees, and Scribes.

Why can’t you understand that you are dealing with other human beings who are made in the image and likeness of God – They are even fellow Catholics — let alone the enemy.

I can’t imagine what Jesus thinks when you approach the altar with this dislike on your minds and tongues to receive Eucharist.

 

[livnlern]

neiacatholic:
Loud talking before and after Mass more often than not is a problem with the pastor not letting his expectations known. If your pastor is one that walks around and talks with people before and after Mass, then you have a hopeless situation. There is nothing you can do except respectfully speak with him.

What is with people.

I would hope you have a pastor that walks around and greets people.

I can understand keeping it quiet before Mass – but after Mass.

We are a community that is what Mass is all about – we are social being and I would hope that you would visit with people and find out how things are going.

That is what we are called to do as a community.

Go over and visit with these young parents.

Make them feel welcomed – rather than shun them and give them dirty looks and look like you wish they wouldn’t return. – Because that is what is sounds like people are doing. Even if you don’t say it or mean it – believe you me – I have heard from young families – and that is what they are thinking.

It wouldn’t hurt you to practice what you Jesus taught.

And if you need more time to pray – stay after Mass or go back to the church later.

If Jesus could respond to some of your comments – it would sound very much like his discussions with the Sadducees, Pharisees, and Scribes.

Why can’t you understand that you are dealing with other human beings who are made in the image and likeness of God – They are even fellow Catholics — let alone the enemy.

I can’t imagine what Jesus thinks when you approach the altar with this dislike on your minds and tongues to receive Eucharist.

You’re really reading your own ideas into this thread. No one has said anything about giving dirty looks or having “dislike on your minds and tongues”. There was no talk about shunning anyone. I don’t think you’ve read my posts or you wouldn’t put this interpretation into your remarks.