Rudeness in church

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livnlern said:
Loud talking before and after Mass more often than not is a problem with the pastor not letting his expectations known. If your pastor is one that walks around and talks with people before and after Mass, then you have a hopeless situation. There is nothing you can do except respectfully speak with him.
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What is with people.

I would hope you have a pastor that walks around and greets people.

I can understand keeping it quiet before Mass – but after Mass.

We are a community that is what Mass is all about – we are social being and I would hope that you would visit with people and find out how things are going.

That is what we are called to do as a community.

Go over and visit with these young parents.

Make them feel welcomed – rather than shun them and give them dirty looks and look like you wish they wouldn’t return. – Because that is what is sounds like people are doing. Even if you don’t say it or mean it – believe you me – I have heard from young families – and that is what they are thinking.

It wouldn’t hurt you to practice what you Jesus taught.

And if you need more time to pray – stay after Mass or go back to the church later.

If Jesus could respond to some of your comments – it would sound very much like his discussions with the Sadducees, Pharisees, and Scribes.

Why can’t you understand that you are dealing with other human beings who are made in the image and likeness of God – They are even fellow Catholics — let alone the enemy.

I can’t imagine what Jesus thinks when you approach the altar with this dislike on your minds and tongues to receive Eucharist.

You’re really reading your own ideas into this thread. No one has said anything about giving dirty looks or having “dislike on your minds and tongues”. There was no talk about shunning anyone. I don’t think you’ve read my posts or you wouldn’t put this interpretation into your remarks.

We do not go to the Sacrifice of the Mass in order to converse with others. That can be done outside of the church (in the hall or lobby wherever), when Mass has finished. We are there for Christ, not to idly gossip.

Talking before Mass starts (in the church) should be only for short greetings and in cases of necessity.
 
  1. I’m not sure what kids under 6 can get out of Mass.
  2. Parents with likely-to-kick-off kids could sit at the back, then exit speedily with Junior if he starts bawling. Less disruptive to others.
  3. Whispering “If you don’t shut up I’ll kill you and the priest will say your funeral Mass” should also be tried, especially amongst Irish and Italian families.
 
Layman said:
  1. Whispering “If you don’t shut up I’ll kill you and the priest will say your funeral Mass” should also be tried, especially amongst Irish and Italian families.
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:rotfl: maybe if I get really desperate I’ll try that. Quietly though, so as not to disturb others. I just hope that if I’m too quiet people won’t think I’m ignoring junior…
 
livnlern said:
I understand that some kids are more active than others, and am not blaming the kids. As I said in my posts, I love kids and having raised 4 of them, understand that it’s not always possible to have them sit still and be quiet. What I’m talking about are parents who don’t take them out when they get noisy or restless or don’t think about this ahead of time and sit in the crying room. To me this was a very simple thing. When my children were little, I would sit in the crying room with them and other families with young children and not have to worry so much about them talking and walking around. This helped me to relax and pay attention more than if I’d have sat in the big part of church and struggled the whole time to keep them occupied.
It’s just a matter of being thoughtful and considerate of others.
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I agree with you and I too took my little one out when he was a wee one. Or we stayed in the ‘cry room’.

I think some people are getting a tad too defensive around here. Others, the rest of us (my son is now 11 y/o) have a right to be ABLE to listen to Mass and all we ask is that you respect that. (And most people do.)
 
Elsport1 said:
My son is an “angel” at Novus Ordo Mass but when we go to EF things get a little iffy. We sit towards the front so he can see whats going on but it’s an awfully long “walk of shame” when he acts up. I’m at a loss as to how to make him behave for the last half hour of Mass. He’s 3 1/2 and often times ignoring his behavior is the best way to get it to stop. Please have patience with parents who bring their young children to Mass. We’re still trying to figure out how to be good holy parents.
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I used to bring crayons, drawing paper, books, etc with me to keep my son occupied. When he got bored and noisy, we went outside or to the vestibule where I would tell him whose photo or painting was on the wall.

And if he behaved in Church, he was rewarded. And he got a stern talking from me if he wasn’t (he was 5-6 years old at this time) He is still fidgety at 11, but otherwise behaves beautifully because I told him what was expected from him and what was not.
 
This topic is always such a divisive one. There are great arguements on both sides. I had the privilege of going to our Cathedral this weekend for the first time. They have a great solution. There is a nursery, but they want no pressure on parents to leave their kids there. I was on the first row with my five year old.

Parents need to put the needs of others first, as do non-parents, as do all. Maybe that parent of a noisy child, or that chatting adult, has arrived to the understanding of the Holy Mass you have. For a parent, maybe that judgemental person has come to the place of dying to self that you have.

We all are tempted with the loss of patience. Therefore, we owe it to help others in their temptation.
 
pnewton said:
This topic is always such a divisive one. There are great arguements on both sides. I had the privilege of going to our Cathedral this weekend for the first time. They have a great solution. There is a nursery, but they want no pressure on parents to leave their kids there. I was on the first row with my five year old.

Parents need to put the needs of others first, as do non-parents, as do all. Maybe that parent of a noisy child, or that chatting adult, has arrived to the understanding of the Holy Mass you have. For a parent, maybe that judgemental person has come to the place of dying to self that you have.

We all are tempted with the loss of patience. Therefore, we owe it to help others in their temptation.
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The Episcopalian church my husband attended had a great solution. The children leave the church after a certain time after the beginning of the service. The children then re-joined the parents after Communion. All of it was done in an orderly fashion and the caregivers usually had them at a little service of their own while the parents and others worshiped in the “adult” way. And there of course was a nursery for babies and toddlers.
 
Cristiano said:
Another answer is what my son’s Catholic school does. During the school Mass the children from pre-k, k, and the first two grades are assigned an adult or a buddy from 7th and 8th grade that models good behaviors and enforces them. These kids learn really fast and during the Sunday Mass are well behaved.
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This is a great idea! The big kids will want to set a good example and the little ones will want to emulate them.
 
livnlern said:
This is a great idea! The big kids will want to set a good example and the little ones will want to emulate them.
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I am looking forward next year to my son getting to go to Mass (Kindergarten) at school. Right now, even when he is not being very good in Mass he is never a distraction or loud. I am a big fan of taking them earlier and teaching them proper reverence. While I have never used death as a threat (as per brotherhrolf :D) I am not beyond Traditional Catholic Guilt.
 
please dont blame it all on children ive seen grown ups in their 40 s or so talk loudly to friendsleave your conversions in the parking lot not in church. i find it hard to pray when two older ladiesare chatting away in back about their dinner or a movie they saw i was taught when i was young a church is only for prayer with the lord not for a private chat room with friends. . thank you and God Bless
 
pnewton said:
While I have never used death as a threat (as per brotherhrolf :D) I am not beyond Traditional Catholic Guilt.
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:rotfl: pnewton, I know that I am not the only one who grew up in the 50s who knew that if you cut-up in public, you got it when you got home. Or that if a neighbor saw you cutting up, they wouldn’t hesitate to call your parents. It didn’t just apply to Mass, it was all-pervasive. We don’t have a cry room in my cathedral but DW always sat in the side chapel and if either got too fussy she would take them out. Of course, since the choir sang within eyesight of the chapel, I learned “the look” from my mother and used it judiciously.

Now the teachers and nuns at Masses in kindergarten and first grade, well, they used “clickers” (those metal noise making devices that went “click”). They sat behind their classes and if they saw you fidgeting or talking, they went “click”. God help you if you got two “clicks”. Writing “lines” is an effective way too. “I will not cut-up in Mass” is just as good of a learning tool.****
 
doanli said:
The Episcopalian church my husband attended had a great solution. The children leave the church after a certain time after the beginning of the service. The children then re-joined the parents after Communion. All of it was done in an orderly fashion and the caregivers usually had them at a little service of their own while the parents and others worshiped in the “adult” way. And there of course was a nursery for babies and toddlers.
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They have that at my parish, the kids (5-12) may leave just before the first reading. They are dismissed in an orderly fashion by the priest or deacon with a blessing. 2-3 adults will take them to a classroom and explain to them in “kid terms” what the reading are about.
 
I am not as annoyed by the behavior of children at Mass as I am by adults gossiping, engaging in rash judgement, and making ironic remarks about other parishiners behavior while they are standing in the confessional line. Children are children but adults should know better.

Paul
 
I will take the crying babies over dogs any day…I was visiting a parish yesterday, and a woman showed up with a dog (it wasn’t a working dog) in tow with her dressed in some type of doggy red leather jacket…the parishioners laughed and joked about it and then walked her dog around the inside of The Church (sneezing and making other noises) while SHE proceeded to set up The Altar, etc…not to mention she didn’t bow, genuflect, or show any other type of respect due to The Most Blessed Sacrament that is inside the The Tabernacle behind The Altar…I watched all of this take place while doing an examination of conscience before confession…then during Mass, I watched all four altar girls poke around and joke with each other…if it was one of my kids, they would have gotten the leather when they got home. Needless to say, I would have much rather had some crying babies around me then all of the nonsense that was taking place… 😦
 
I am a little bit younger…but I too remember all the same things…it was just something we didn’t do…and about the parents…it seems as if all the families worked together back then. They looked out for each other…my friends parents and the neighbors were allowed to tan my hide if I acted up…it was expected from them and it certainly wouldn’t have resulted in a law suit…then if I did act up and get in trouble…after I got spanked by the nuns at school or Church, it was ten fold when I got home and had to face dad (I got caught trying to stuff my pants with TP one time, and that wasn’t good :eek:…same as with the neighbors, if they called said they had to discipline me…it wasn’t good when dad got home…LOL…it is a real shame the kids today are missing out on that experience…is it just me, or did the previous generations produce more sound Catholics, citizens, and overall just more wholesome people??? Maybe it has something to do with the way we were raised.
brotherhrolf said:
:rotfl: pnewton, I know that I am not the only one who grew up in the 50s who knew that if you cut-up in public, you got it when you got home. Or that if a neighbor saw you cutting up, they wouldn’t hesitate to call your parents. It didn’t just apply to Mass, it was all-pervasive. We don’t have a cry room in my cathedral but DW always sat in the side chapel and if either got too fussy she would take them out. Of course, since the choir sang within eyesight of the chapel, I learned “the look” from my mother and used it judiciously.

Now the teachers and nuns at Masses in kindergarten and first grade, well, they used “clickers” (those metal noise making devices that went “click”). They sat behind their classes and if they saw you fidgeting or talking, they went “click”. God help you if you got two “clicks”. Writing “lines” is an effective way too. “I will not cut-up in Mass” is just as good of a learning tool.****
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I understand what you are saying completely. I have 2 daughters of my own, ages 4 and 6. I began taking them to church early on and my eldest attends our parish school here in Brooklyn, NY. I always lecture my kids that they must be quiet and pay attention. Some kids can do it while most cannot. I always stress that they must not be rude to the priest or the worshipers in church. I explain to them that we are here for worship and that it is not playtime. My kids are well behaved in church but they themselves how children their age and older treat our church as a play ground and think they can stand on chairs, scream and carry on as well as rip pages from the books! I always point out the children’s behavior and how other people react to it and they do not want to act like that. It’s hard to focus on the mass when parents are disrespectful and do not attend to their children’s behavior and let them roam wild in church.

These are probably the same parents who never show children respect or discipline of any kind and what we in the future will have to deal with, a generation of brats. It’s harsh but needs to be said. I agree that if your child cannot stay still for mass, leave them home. Leave them with a sitter or keep them in check, they are being disruptive to others who want to be there. If they act up during mass, step out and talk to them, if they will behave bring them back…if not, take them home.
 
I am also taking RCIA classes with my husband and the teenagers in my class there for confirmation are busy talking on the phone or texting during mass. The older people just shoot them dirty looks and they get the picture. And these kids are 17-19…I think respect and manners have fallen to the wayside these days.
 
I’ve gotten a good chuckle out of this this morning. Pnewton, the “look” transcended denominational or, indeed, racial or ethnic bonds. MIchael, yes indeed, parents worked together back then. It pains me deeply to quote Hillary but it does indeed take a village (i.e. neighborhood) to raise a child. We knew that if we cut up, there would be repercussions when we got home or when we got back to class.

But I see far more rudeness at my local geographic parish done by people my age or older and I am no spring chicken. We are in the presence of the Most High not at Walmart or not at our local Southern Baptist church where “fellowship” takes precedence and, to be honest with you, I can remember way back when that Protestant churches were equally silent before services. My grandmother was not Catholic and her church was as silent as ours used to be for her memorial service (within the context of Sunday) and I have been to a few Episcopalian services over the years and they “out-Catholic” us Catholics.

My cathedral parish is pretty good about it. We have several doctors in our congregation who are on call some of whom have their cell phones on vibrate and some forget but they always get up and leave immediately. One of the biggest reasons I don’t attend my local geographic parish is because “the look” doesn’t work on the “greeters” for whom discussions about the efficacy of Preparation H is an OK conversation at normal volumes when some of us are trying to examine our conscience in order to go to Confession. Believe me, I tried.
 
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