Rules about Eating Meat

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I did not have a super traditional Catholic upbringing growing up, so I’m not sure about the official rules for how we are supposed to treat meat on Fridays.

I happened to hear from a priest just during a sermon that we aren’t supposed to eat meat any Friday, not just during Lent, which I had never heard before.

But doing some research I’ve seen some sources saying we only are supposed to give up red meat. And some saying some council of bishops said that since in the modern era meat is everywhere and giving it up is really no longer that big a sacrifice, that we can replace that with some other thing more dear to us, or just do additional prayer or go to mass or something along those lines.

Can someone straighten me out on this?
 
What country do you live in? Each Bishops’ Conference sets the rules for their people.

For Lent, meat is any warm blooded animal or bird.
 
What country do you live in? Each Bishops’ Conference sets the rules for their people.

For Lent, meat is any warm blooded animal or bird.
This. In the Latin Rite (I don’t know about Eastern), it’s meat from warm-blooded that we abstain from during Lent and traditionally on Fridays (though different Bishop’s conferences may have different rules on Fridays). So fish, shellfish, reptiles, and amphibians are generally fair game.
 
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I did not have a super traditional Catholic upbringing growing up, so I’m not sure about the official rules for how we are supposed to treat meat on Fridays.

I happened to hear from a priest just during a sermon that we aren’t supposed to eat meat any Friday, not just during Lent, which I had never heard before.

But doing some research I’ve seen some sources saying we only are supposed to give up red meat. And some saying some council of bishops said that since in the modern era meat is everywhere and giving it up is really no longer that big a sacrifice, that we can replace that with some other thing more dear to us, or just do additional prayer or go to mass or something along those lines.

Can someone straighten me out on this?
The general discipline of the Church is that we must abstain from all meat (generally, flesh meat of animals, not just “red meat”, chicken and turkey are considered “meat” too, but fish is not considered “meat”) on Fridays as penance for our sins.

In the United States, there is a derogation from this rule, and at one’s discretion, another penance may be substituted — an act of charity, prayer, abstaining from something else (alcohol, tobacco, etc.). But you must do some form of penance. What you choose is up to you, and you may consult your confessor if you wish, to find an alternative penance.

However, Americans Catholics generally just interpreted this as “we can now eat meat on Fridays”, and didn’t absorb the part about adopting an alternate penance.

Friday abstinence doesn’t bind if the Friday falls on a major feast day or solemnity (Christmas, Immaculate Conception, etc.). All Latin Rite Catholics age 14 and over are bound to abstain or to perform some alternate penance every Friday.

The Eastern Rites of the Church have their own regulations on fasting and abstinence.

Also, all Latin Rite Catholics are bound to fast and abstain on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday from the ages of 18 to 59. This means one full meal and two half-meals, all meatless, no eating between meals.

I will “age out” of the fasting requirement next year when I turn 60. Talk about feeling old.

Catholics who do not fall into the age requirements may still fast and abstain at their discretion, but it is not binding. I fully intend to continue fasting even though I don’t strictly have to.

These are very, very lenient requirements compared to times past, and compared to Eastern Christianity.

Is it possible that your priest is SSPX or sedevacantist? I don’t know whether the SSPX regard the newer disciplines as sufficient (they should if they recognize the Holy Father and the liceity of post-Vatican II rules), but sedevacantists typically proceed as though the newer disciplines don’t exist, and adhere to the older rules.
 
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Yes: the US bishops actually provided for people to substitute a different penance for abstinence from meat because “since the spirit of penance primarily suggests that we discipline ourselves in that which we enjoy most, to many in our day abstinence from meat no longer implies penance, while renunciation of other things would be more penitential.” In other words, if abstinence from meat is not the penance done in observance of Friday, then it ought to be because a penance that requires greater self-renunciation was chosen in its place.

http://www.usccb.org/prayer-and-wor...toral-statement-on-penance-and-abstinence.cfm

As you pointed out, the bishops did not intend to make the requirement more lenient but rather hoped to encourage Catholics in their care to find something that required more of them rather than less. Just holding on to the previous abstinence from meat wasn’t removed as a possibility, though, so some did keep doing that. (I was taught that during Lent it is not either/or but both/and, which is why the previous abstinence from meat was retained for that season.)

You are also correct to point out that the only message that seemed to get through was “abstinence from meat is not required on Fridays outside of Lent.” The requirement for a more demanding or more appropriate substitute got “lost,” somehow.
 
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CORRECTION: In my original post I said “soups, gravies, and non-flesh meat (such as liver) are allowed”. I had in mind pre-Vatican II rules that allowed this. There are those who say yes, and those who say no. Based on my best information, something such as chicken broth is allowed, but soups or gravies that have small pieces of meat are not. I’m not sure about organ meats. Do we have a priest here who could clarify?

I have no desire to eat organ meats anyway, though I have had the occasional fried chicken liver, they’re not bad. De gustibus non est disputandum.
 
have no desire to eat organ meats anyway
Oh, in Poland I’ve eaten a lot of things of, shall we say, uncertain origin. They like that kind of thing. One time I was “tricked” into eating a certain kind of sausage, and if it was what I think it was, all I can say is that will never happen again!

Hint: they love it in the UK.
 
Particularly if they are wrapped in bacon and baked.

As a youngster we had to follow the old rules.

It was not until I entered the Army that I understood what fish was supposed to taste like. My mother, who apparently was worried that the fish monger had not properly cleaned the fish, would fry the… well, you can probably guess what out of them. Fish sticks (something which takes serious work to damage) came out of the oven vulcanized. It truly was penance.

However, once I ate a properly prepared fish, I had a very hard time figuring out why fish was a penance; I live on the West Coats, so we have really fresh fish available.

If you were ever in the Army, you can understand the reference… 🤣🤣 But even those cooks couldn’t match my mother’s lack of skill cooking. Sunny side up eggs came out with a crisp bottom. I to this day cannot stand steamed carrots; hers were caramelized. Naturally.

By the age of 22, I had done a lifetime of penance.
 
Is it from the same general are as mountain oysters?
No, can’t say I’ve ever had the pleasure of dining on those. Saw them at an international meat market one time, I hear they’re actually pretty good, might give them a try one of these days.

I’m pretty sure it was blood sausage (kiszka). Weird texture and made with rice, tasted kind of grainy. It wasn’t objectionable, just different, but knowing what I know now… won’t happen again. There are just some things that I cannot eat. Mayonnaise is another thing (bad incident in college, involved a canteen sandwich and a microwave).
 
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I’m pretty sure it was blood sausage ( kiszka ). Weird texture and made with rice, tasted kind of grainy. It wasn’t objectionable, just different, but knowing what I know now… won’t happen again.
Sounds like what Slovaks call Jaternica or Hurka. I personally cannot eat it. I can’t even stomach the smell of it.
 
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I’m pretty sure it was blood sausage ( kiszka ). Weird texture and made with rice, tasted kind of grainy. It wasn’t objectionable, just different, but knowing what I know now… won’t happen again.
We were invited over to a relative’s house and she was serving it. I was just told that it was a kind of rice sausage, which struck me as a bit odd, but… it dawned on me years later what it was.
 
Brazilian friends who have had contact with the Amazon tribes, such as the people we have been seeing in the news from Rome this month, say the typical reaction to unfamiliar food works in both directions. The idea of eating ants, for example, is not one that appeals to most people who haven’t lived their whole lives in the jungle, but those same tribal people will typically react with a mixture of incredulity and disgust the first time they see someone drinking milk.
 
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Can someone straighten me out on this?
It may help to know the history.

APOSTOLIC CONSTITUTION PAENITEMINI​

St. Pope Paul VI, 1966:
In the first place, Holy Mother Church, although it has always observed in a special way abstinence from meat and fasting, nevertheless wants to indicate in the traditional triad of “prayer—fasting—charity” the fundamental means of complying with the divine precepts of penitence. These means were the same throughout the centuries, but in our time there are special reasons whereby, according to the demands of various localities, it is necessary to inculcate some special form of penitence in preference to others.(60) Therefore, where economic well-being is greater, so much more will the witness of asceticism have to be given in order that the sons of the Church may not be involved in the spirit of the “world,”(61) and at the same time the witness of charity will have to be given to the brethren who suffer poverty and hunger beyond any barrier of nation or continent.(62) On the other hand, in countries where the standard of living is lower, it will be more pleasing to God the Father and more useful to the members of the Body of Christ if Christians—while they seek in every way to promote better social justice—offer their suffering in prayer to the Lord in close union with the Cross of Christ.

Therefore, the Church, while preserving—where it can be more readily observed—the custom (observed for many centuries with canonical norms) of practicing penitence also through abstinence from meat and fasting, intends to ratify with its prescriptions other forms of penitence as well, provided that it seems opportune to episcopal conferences to replace the observance of fast and abstinence with exercises of prayer and works of charity.

Therefore, the following is declared and established:

I. 1. By divine law all the faithful are required to do penance.

2. The prescriptions of ecclesiastical law regarding penitence are totally reorganized according to the following norms: …
http://w2.vatican.va/content/paul-v...cuments/hf_p-vi_apc_19660217_paenitemini.html
 
Here’s the decree of Pope Paul VI on Friday abstinence:

http://w2.vatican.va/content/paul-v...cuments/hf_p-vi_apc_19660217_paenitemini.html

He made Friday abstinence voluntary in the Roman Catholic Church. (N.B. This decree does not apply to the Eastern Catholic Churches.) However, Roman Catholics are still bound to do penance on Friday if they do not observe Friday abstinence. (I’m paraphrasing the decree.)

Example: A boy & girl (both Roman Catholic) go out on a Friday night date for dinner & a movie. If they have steak for dinner, they could substitute giving up the movie as a penance.

The penance substituting for Friday abstinence should be just that - penitential. Example: A person can’t say they’ll give up dessert in lieu of abstaining from meat on Friday if they don’t eat dessert regularly. One can’t give up something one doesn’t have. So if they love cheesecake and “can’t live without it”, then they could try substituting giving up their favorite cheesecake if they eat meat on Friday.

Now in the Byzantine and Ukrainian Greek Catholic Churches, we have obligatory Friday abstinence throughout the year except for the Privileged Weeks which are:

Dec. 25 to Jan. 4 inclusive
The week after Pascha/Easter
The week after Pentecost
From the Sunday of the Publican and the Pharisee to the Sunday of the Prodigal Son

And when I was at SingCon 2019, we had no meat on Thursday evening or Friday, because for us the liturgical day begins with Vespers. So liturgically for us, Friday begins on Thursday evening at Vespers.
 
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I will “age out” of the fasting requirement next year when I turn 60. Talk about feeling old .
My mom is in her mid-80s. Last year, when she was in rehab, they brought her meat on Friday. She said: “I’m Catholic. I don’t eat meat on Friday.” They took it back and she got something else. (And I didn’t tell her to do that - she did it herself!)

This happened every Friday until about a week before she was released because they finally got it that she wouldn’t eat meat on Friday.

My Mom… ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️
 
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I will “age out” of the fasting requirement next year when I turn 60. Talk about feeling old .
I live in a part of the country where people just cannot comprehend abstaining from meat on Friday. Before I retired, Friday work lunches, potlucks, and so on, could be very problematical. Not eating a certain food for religious reasons is so far outside their experience, that they can’t grasp it. The company even scheduled an awards luncheon and celebration — on Good Friday afternoon! I told a co-worker (African American Baptist) that if I were invited, I simply would not go, that crosses a line. Thankfully I wasn’t invited, so it didn’t become an issue.

Abstinence, unlike fasting, doesn’t have an “age-out” factor. It is from 14 years old for the rest of one’s life.
 
An awards luncheon on Good Friday?!? 😱
 
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An awards luncheon on Good Friday?!?
Yes, sad but true. We are talking about some very, very obtuse people. Or maybe not — I suspect that there was considerable Masonic influence in that company. It was the company where the little old man came in my office the first day and ran his thumb over my knuckles to see if I’d return the Masonic handshake.
 
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