Rules Concerning Female Altar Servers

[andy4d]

We’ve had 4 girls serving in the Parish I go to for a couple of years now. They all get on with the boys ok. We’ve had 2 boys drop out of serving that I know of. I think both of them would have stopped serving anyway, even without girls serving. So it can work. I think it depends on the people involved.

 

[holyfamily1]

OK–I’ll say it. It seems much of this discussion is just another attempt to blame women for lack of male participation in the Church, or for whatever ails the Church. There have been threads recently on female lectors, women in the sanctuary, AND, of all things–the FEMINIZATION of music (as if music has a gender)–all being excuses for why men do not participate in the Church.

It really is getting quite sickening, and I for one no longer buy some of the excuses given.

Altar girls are not the reason vocations to the priesthood are down. Period. Women are not to blame. Blame the men, who just don’t want to sacrifice enough to be priests. And the lack of religion in general among the population. And the drive for money, power, and recognition that is far more prevalent among men then women.

And just remember who stayed with Jesus at the foot of that Cross. And who He first appeared to after the Resurrection. And who He LISTENED to at Cana. And who, century after century, has quietly and persistently passed down the faith even when the men in power were behaving badly.

I truly believe some of you men just plain don’t want women to be visible in the Church.

:dts: :ehh:

 

[holyfamily1]

They are blaming icky girls.

You don’t think that young boys think of girls their age as icky?

 

[CB_Catholic]

You don’t think that young boys think of girls their age as icky?

A 10 year old–yes. A 14 year old? NO. And you know what? Young girls find boys just as icky as the boys find them. But they serve any way. Mull on that a while.

There is no positive correlation, none has ever been proved, that female altar servers are responsible for a decline in priestly vocations. Most of the objection seems to come from men (with some exceptions) who themselves aren’t priests.

The thing that refuses to be called misogyny in the Church has got to stop.

 

[leinadster]

A 10 year old–yes. A 14 year old? NO. And you know what? Young girls find boys just as icky as the boys find them. But they serve any way. Mull on that a while.

There is no positive correlation, none has ever been proved, that female altar servers are responsible for a decline in priestly vocations. Most of the objection seems to come from men (with some exceptions) who themselves aren’t priests.

The thing that refuses to be called misogyny in the Church has got to stop.

It seems to me or this has something to do with equality and all that stuff?

You are not a priest neither, I don’t see the relationship for that argument.

Ang again, this is NOT mysogyny, I think you should get your facts straight.

 

[Brendan]

It’s allowed!
Unless the local bishop decides unilaterally that he doesn’t want it.
.

Or if the pastor decides that he doesn’t want it in his parish, or if the celebrating priest decides that he does not want their assistance at the Mass.

As the links in post 4 show, a bishop cannot mandate the use of altar girls, he can only choose to allow them.

And likewise with the pastor in his parish. If the bishop gives permission, the pastor can still choose otherwise in his parish.

 

[L_Marshall]

I heard an excellent solution to all problems herein contained recently.

A pastor schedules it so that at any Mass, it is only boy servers, or only girl servers. The schedule alternates like this:

• Saturday Vigil Mass (07/06) – Boy Servers
• Sunday Mass (07/07) – Girl Servers
• Saturday Vigil Mass (7/13) – Girl Servers
• Sunday Mass (7/14) – Boy Servers

The boys wear a cassock & surplice, while the girls wear white albs.

The schedule allows the family to attend what Mass they prefer, and allows different genders to serve at each time (alternating weeks).

It allows the girls to serve, but also creates the esprit de corps in the altar boys that has the chance of increasing vocations.

More so, it promotes good gender identity (because of the difference in clothing), and neither gender sees it as the realm of another, because they only serve with their own gender.

 

[Catholic_Wife]

OK–I’ll say it. It seems much of this discussion is just another attempt to blame women for lack of male participation in the Church, or for whatever ails the Church. There have been threads recently on female lectors, women in the sanctuary, AND, of all things–the FEMINIZATION of music (as if music has a gender)–all being excuses for why men do not participate in the Church.

It really is getting quite sickening, and I for one no longer buy some of the excuses given.

Altar girls are not the reason vocations to the priesthood are down. Period. Women are not to blame. Blame the men, who just don’t want to sacrifice enough to be priests. And the lack of religion in general among the population. And the drive for money, power, and recognition that is far more prevalent among men then women.

And just remember who stayed with Jesus at the foot of that Cross. And who He first appeared to after the Resurrection. And who He LISTENED to at Cana. And who, century after century, has quietly and persistently passed down the faith even when the men in power were behaving badly.

I truly believe some of you men just plain don’t want women to be visible in the Church.

THANK YOU, CB!!!
:clapping:

Also blame the parents, many of whom contracept and have only one or two sons and don’t want their sons to be priests so they can have more grandchildren and/or someone to carry on the family name…

I think that all of us women who serve at the altar should go ahead and sit in the pews and get some rest and make the men finally step up! If women sat in the pews, there would still be a shortage of priests, permanent deacons, lectors/readers, EMHCs, cantors AND altar servers. This Catholic woman would love to have a Sunday in which I get to just sit at the feet of Jesus and rest instead of being asked to cantor or to fill in a reader or as a EMHC. I know other women at my parish who love also like this, but the men just won’t step up…

 

[Oneofthewomen]

Just want to chime in that this woman agrees with you both 1000%
I work for the Church, and have volunteered in many capacities over the years, and getting men involved is a challange.

Actually, getting anybody to commit to a Church activity, what ever it may be, is difficult. I have had people, when asked to participate in something, who have said “Well, I’ll pencil you in, but if I get a better offer for that weekend, I won’t be able to help you.”

I don’t have the answers, but I do know we need to stop playing the “blame game” and start teaching the faith. Let’s face it, in the US especially, catechesis has been abyssmal, at best. I believe it’s starting to turn around. I am trying to do my part, in my little part of the world. I would humbly suggest that instead of complaining about something that one has no control over, they do something to be part of the solution. :blushing:

THANK YOU, CB!!!
:clapping:

Also blame the parents, many of whom contracept and have only one or two sons and don’t want their sons to be priests so they can have more grandchildren and/or someone to carry on the family name…

I think that all of us women who serve at the altar should go ahead and sit in the pews and get some rest and make the men finally step up! If women sat in the pews, there would still be a shortage of priests, permanent deacons, lectors/readers, EMHCs, cantors AND altar servers. This Catholic woman would love to have a Sunday in which I get to just sit at the feet of Jesus and rest instead of being asked to cantor or to fill in a reader or as a EMHC. I know other women at my parish who love also like this, but the men just won’t step up…

 

[holyfamily1]

But, the reason that men don’t want to participate is that woman have overtaken almost everything. They are lectors, EMHC, hospitality ministers, servers, everything. The liturgy has been feminized, and that needs to stop. I personally think that an all man sanctuary like before Vatican II helps vocations. Think about all the vocations before the council. Remember, what the council says. Remember what the President of the Council for Divine Worship says. It is very interesting to see how angry some people get when people point out the fact that it isn’t the norm for woman to be in the sanctuary.

 

[holyfamily1]

The thing that refuses to be called misogyny in the Church has got to stop.

Are you suggesting woman clergy?

 

[Catholic_Wife]

I really wish people would stop blaming women for men’s lack of participation and interest in serving at Mass! Women will step and and do what needs to be done when nobody else will do it (because that’s what women do) - and men just aren’t doing what needs to be done. It’s amazing to me that we have almost 2,000 families in our parish, but only a few dozen men actually serve at the altar because the average Catholic man - if he’s anything like my husband - is lazy (or too tired from working hard all week) and doesn’t want to make the effort.

All I can say is that when my husband decided to become a reader at Mass (after I literally forced him to), I stepped down from that role. He has been approached about being a EMHC and/or acolyte, and if he would just do it, I would also step down from helping to distribute Communion. Then again, we don’t want him cantoring any time soon…

 

[maryjk]

You don’t think that young boys think of girls their age as icky?

**But, the reason that men don’t want to participate is that woman have overtaken almost everything. **They are lectors, EMHC, hospitality ministers, servers, everything. The liturgy has been feminized, and that needs to stop. I personally think that an all man sanctuary like before Vatican II helps vocations. Think about all the vocations before the council. Remember, what the council says. Remember what the President of the Council for Divine Worship says. It is very interesting to see how angry some people get when people point out the fact that it isn’t the norm for woman to be in the sanctuary.

So, now men think women are icky?

Or did it happen that men weren’t stepping up to take care of things, so women did?

 

[otjm]

You don’t think that young boys think of girls their age as icky?

Why would that make a difference?

“Aw, whyyy do IIII have to seeeerrrve with those icky giiiirrrrls?”

Answer by a parent who chooses to be a parent instead of a doormat: “Because I said so.”

Since when did a 10 or 12 (or for that matter, a 15) year old boy determine what they are going to do?

Didn’t happen when I was a kid.

Didn’t happen when my kids were kids.

 

[otjm]

Are you suggesting woman clergy?

Red herring alert!

 

[larsont7]

I know one example can’t prove anything, but it’s interesting that the diocese that has the greatest percentage of vocations per capita by far (Lincoln, NE) is one of the only two dioceses in the USA that doesn’t allow altar girls. Again, not proof of anything, just an observation.

I also know that our small parish, which does not allow altar girls, just had one priest ordained this year with 4 more young men in the seminary to be ordained over the next few years. In contrast, the entire archdiocese of Omaha has about the same number of priestly ordinations coming up even though there are dozens of those parishes, most of them much larger than our own. A year or two ago, they had 0 ordinations to the priesthood and this year they had 1.

Of course altar girls are not the only reason this is happening, I am sure, but I don’t think their use can be completely dismissed either.

 

[holyfamily1]

I know one example can’t prove anything, but it’s interesting that the diocese that has the greatest percentage of vocations per capita by far (Lincoln, NE) is one of the only two dioceses in the USA that doesn’t allow altar girls. Again, not proof of anything, just an observation.

I also know that our small parish, which does not allow altar girls, just had one priest ordained this year with 4 more young men in the seminary to be ordained over the next few years. In contrast, the entire archdiocese of Omaha has about the same number of priestly ordinations coming up even though there are dozens of those parishes, most of them much larger than our own. A year or two ago, they had 0 ordinations to the priesthood and this year they had 1.

Of course altar girls are not the only reason this is happening, I am sure, but I don’t think their use can be completely dismissed either.

Lincoln also has the FSSP and if my memory serve me right, the cloistered Carmelite nuns with whom my friend’s sister is.

 

[holyfamily1]

Of course altar girls are not the only reason this is happening

Of course it isn’t the only reason for a lack of vocations but,
It certainly in doing its part!

 

[Oneofthewomen]

REALLY? REALLY? :doh2:

As a middle-aged woman, I have to ask- how old are you?

Do you realize that how whiney you sound? Blaming all those icky girls & woman for your (the general “your”, as in the men who complain about this garbage) lack of responsibility or inititive!

It seems that many young (uner 30) men have these really strange ideas about women & church, and point to the pre-VII, post-WWII “golden age” of the 1950’s.
Well, chew on this for a while, all the people (priests, sisters & lay people) who are responsible for the position the Church in America is in now, were raised in that “golden age”!

Maybe you should be careful what you wish for.

But, the reason that men don’t want to participate is that woman have overtaken almost everything. They are lectors, EMHC, hospitality ministers, servers, everything. The liturgy has been feminized, and that needs to stop. I personally think that an all man sanctuary like before Vatican II helps vocations. Think about all the vocations before the council. Remember, what the council says. Remember what the President of the Council for Divine Worship says. It is very interesting to see how angry some people get when people point out the fact that it isn’t the norm for woman to be in the sanctuary.

 

[zab]

OK–I’ll say it. It seems much of this discussion is just another attempt to blame women for lack of male participation in the Church, or for whatever ails the Church.
Oneofthewomen;10942057:

I don’t have the answers, but I do know we need to stop playing the “blame game” and start teaching the faith.

I really wish people would stop blaming women for men’s lack of participation and interest in serving at Mass! Women will step and and do what needs to be done when nobody else will do it (because that’s what women do) - and men just aren’t doing what needs to be done.

It does kind of sound that way at times, that women are being blamed because of a lack of male presence. But then again, men are being criticized, too. My comments on another thread were not intended to blame women. I have witnessed what happens when a pastor neglects to invite men and boys to participate in the Liturgy. (now I’m blaming the pastor ) When the right people do not respond, it leaves an opening for some who may have an agenda to step in. I’ve seen it happen in the 1980’s when we had very few altar boys and it didn’t seem like anyone was inviting, encouraging or instructing new young boys to be altar servers. We even had men serve at daily Mass because many times there was no boys to serve. So a couple of women (and these two did have other motives. They both left the parish when a new pastor arrived) got the pastor’s permission to go to the school and invited boys and girls to be altar servers. The excuse given was that the boys didn’t want to serve so we’ll invite girls. But the truth was- nobody was inviting the boys. Then a male parishioner, an elderly gentleman and former altar boy, stepped up to instruct the newly invited group. He did a good job. But when the next pastor came, he took over the instruction of the altar servers and also began encouraging boys to serve. He also began to phase out the girls. The next two pastors have not neglected to invite, encourage, and instruct boys to serve at the altar. Today we have an army of altar servers, all male.