Running a marathon or doing the bare minimum

[Isaiah45_9]

But how is getting bit by mosquitoes as a self inflicted punishment for squishing one commendable? Is it a sin to kill a bug in anger/vengeance for a wrong it has done to you? If so, then how can one live his/her day-to-day life without being constantly burdened by one’s conscience? I wouldn’t be able to get out of bed because of the psychological burden that would place on me!

This story about St. Macarius suggests that he had an inflamed conscience. The slightest p(name removed by moderator)rick causes pain. It seems like the scrupulosity people with OCD suffer with regard to sin. That’s not healthy; that’s morbid.

For me, it is also unreasonable to let oneself be eaten by mosquitoes. Just as it is unreasonable to have a locusts and wild honey diet, and wear camel hairs for garments (Wear something other than jeans and basketball shorts with t-shirts? Really? ). And yet, Jesus did not criticize him for that and had him in very high regard.

However, I don’t think it is possible to truly be ascetic without being radical. Our reasonable minds cannot and will not understand the spiritual. For our minds it would be, like Kierkegaard would say, absurd. And yet, when we study the lives of spiritual saints - we find an incredible amount of absurdities. And still, their lives also show that they achieved their spiritual goals. It is a paradox, yes.

But going back to your OP. It is not a matter of a bare minimum but a matter of increasing one’s faith and avoiding it to be dead.

 

[howirenic]

You’ve totally misunderstood what I’m getting at. This isn’t me trying to prove myself better because of my insecurity regarding my spiritual infirmity. Folk on this forum have levied the objection. I am trying to understand the mentality of Orthodox and Catholics. As faith communities, they have distinct dispositions. In other words, there is a Catholic ethos and an Orthodox ethos. That means there are characteristics of their adherents that can be generally applied.

Also, try not to use such loaded words with respect to me such as “hypocrisy”, “insecurity”, and “spiritual shortcomings”. such words raise the temperature in the room so to speak and I don’t want this thread to degenerate into a flame war…

I’m afraid that you have misunderstood, my friend.

I was not referring to you, but rather to my coreligionists who would attack Catholics for “doing the bare minimum.” That sort of judgmental behavior, is, at least by my estimation, a sign of insecurity.

Please forgive me for not being as clear as I should have been.

 

[Jon_Mallory]

For me, it is also unreasonable to let oneself be eaten by mosquitoes. Just as it is unreasonable to have a locusts and wild honey diet, and wear camel hairs for garments (Wear something other than jeans and basketball shorts with t-shirts? Really? ). And yet, Jesus did not criticize him for that and had him in very high regard.

However, I don’t think it is possible to truly be ascetic without being radical. Our reasonable minds cannot and will not understand the spiritual. For our minds it would be, like Kierkegaard would say, absurd. And yet, when we study the lives of spiritual saints - we find an incredible amount of absurdities. And still, their lives also show that they achieved their spiritual goals. It is a paradox, yes.

But going back to your OP. It is not a matter of a bare minimum but a matter of increasing one’s faith and avoiding it to be dead.

You’re right. Jesus, the Prophets, and John the Baptist were all ascetics who did radical things. Even St. Paul disciplined his body. But how do you distinguish between true asceticism and people who struggle with OCD scrupulosity? People with OCD always feel like their sinning in some minor way and it interferes with their daily lives. I’m an average joe trying to navigate my way through the world. I’m no ascetic/saint.

 

[Jon_Mallory]

I’m afraid that you have misunderstood, my friend.

I was not referring to you, but rather to my coreligionists who would attack Catholics for “doing the bare minimum.” That sort of judgmental behavior, is, at least by my estimation, a sign of insecurity.

Please forgive me for not being as clear as I should have been.

Thanks for the clarification. No worries. This is an internet forum. Miscommunication is bound to happen.

 

[prodromos]

You’re right. Jesus, the Prophets, and John the Baptist were all ascetics who did radical things. Even St. Paul disciplined his body. But how do you distinguish between true asceticism and people who struggle with OCD scrupulosity? People with OCD always feel like their sinning in some minor way and it interferes with their daily lives. I’m an average joe trying to navigate my way through the world. I’m no ascetic/saint.

I explained that in my first response to you, which you seem to have ignored.

 

[Jon_Mallory]

I explained that in my first response to you, which you seem to have ignored.

And what if your spiritual confessor is wrong? Does a person totally submit his conscience to his/her spiritual confessor? I don’t think ministers are qualified to deal with mental illnesses.

 

[SyroMalankara]

You’re right. Jesus, the Prophets, and John the Baptist were all ascetics who did radical things. Even St. Paul disciplined his body. But how do you distinguish between true asceticism and people who struggle with OCD scrupulosity? People with OCD always feel like their sinning in some minor way and it interferes with their daily lives. I’m an average joe trying to navigate my way through the world. I’m no ascetic/saint.

It’s actually not considered proper to undertake any kind of fast, especially a severe one, without the advice of one’s elder… St. Macarius’ story is perhaps not meant to be emulated, but contemplated. If one’s elder suggests you or another is at that level of asceticism, then you may ask the elder if such a response is appropriate for you.

 

[prodromos]

And what if your spiritual confessor is wrong? Does a person totally submit his conscience to his/her spiritual confessor? I don’t think ministers are qualified to deal with mental illnesses.

That is just the sort of thing one would tell their spiritual father, so that he could tailor their ‘exercises’ according to their particular condition and guide them to a healthy spirituality.