Rural priest corners single mom

[Moore11]

I’m going to go ahead and take a different approach than the other posters, though I do agree with most of them. I think this is not about the priest at all. I think it is about a single mom who has some serious feelings and issues. First you say she wants the father to have nothing to do with the baby, then you say she puts that she does not know who the father is on the Birth Certificate. Well, I am sorry to inform you that the father has rights. The father also has responsibilities. And the child has rights!!! Not only that, but he probably should be involved with this child. For the sake of the child. The fact that he wanted an abortion is in the past and over with. Many mothers want abortions as well and they are legally allowed to mother their children after they are born. Fathers have biological rights, the child has a right to a father, and the father also may have financial obligations to the child and definitely has emotional obligations to the child. And he should be provided every opportunity to be able to fulfill these obligations at any time. Regardless of what kind of scumbag some may think him to be. At one point these two people did something reserved for married couples and life was created.

Now her aversion to questions may very well be a natural and normal thing, but not attending Mass because a priest asked an uncomfortable question is silly and shows a lack of maturity and theological understanding. Heck, my priest asks me very very uncomfortable questions in confession every couple of weeks!

And that is my advice. She should be a regular at confession as should we all. And then the priest might better understand this member of his parish so as to better minister to her and her child.!!!

 

[Allegra]

Dear Amy:

Get over it.

Sincerely Father_________

I’ve noticed may feel the Church should bend over backwards to accomodate their feelings and should just be over joyed that they show up for mass once in the while. If Amy thinks the priests was bad wait until she deals with the rest of the world.

While this would be childish and inappropriate, I agree with the sentiments. It sounds like Amy might need to toughen up a bit. It’s understandable that she feels defensive, given that her former actions are now so visable to the rest of the world and even Church-going Catholics are know to be harsh in this sort of situation. However, I highly doubt that the priest didn’t tell her what he needed the information for. She was probably defensive and upset over the whole thing and didn’t want to give it up. I’ve known more than a few single moms who like to think they can will their former partner out of existance if they try hard enough. I doubt the priest was disrespectful or ambigious. He was simply trying to get information out of a post-partum woman who was emotional, defensive, and probably a little bit unreasonable. If you know the priest, it might be a good idea to let him know that he offended her. (Even if her reaction was unwarrented) He might decide to reach out to her and hopefully she will realize that he is on her side and the Church will help support her through the hard times ahead.

 

[EasterJoy]

It could not matter less how we wish the mother would look at this situation. When the shepherd goes out looking for lost sheep, he does not expect that they will think like shepherds think. If they thought way, they would still be in the fold. He expects that they will, unfortunately, think the way that errant sheep think, and realizes that taking this into account is part of the work of getting them back into the fold.

That is the thing: A good shepherd can neither waste time getting upset that the errant sheep was not lost nor rationalize foolishly that whatever the sheep does is safe for it and however long it is out of the fold does not matter, so long as the sheep is making its own decisions. No, the shepherd has the task of teaching the errant sheep to learn the habit of hearing his voice and staying in the fold of its own accord. That is not an easy task, and every shepherd deserves our prayers for the work that is his to do.

 

[NeedImprovement]

• The following is just my limited opinion]

Some of life’s more trying situations can leave a person temporarily “shell-shocked” - one consequence of which presents itself as difficulty in thinking things all the way through when dealing with circumstances of a more critical nature.

Although this thread’s title may have been efffective in drawing people’s attention to solicit their opinions, I agree with 1ke’s opinion expressed in post # 13 , in that I don’t see the underlying issue as being as much a* priest cornering a single mom *; but something more along the lines of a courageous single mom who was banged around a bit in the process of becoming a mom , whose wounds may still be a little fresh, but who is dead set against establishing paternity of her child (for whatever reasons).

The best recommendation I can see which has been made on this thread more than once , is for Amy to sit down and discuss this with the priest – instead of running away from whatever it is she’s running away from. It’s a natural reaction to want to try and control every related thing once we’ve made a decision in a situation which was almost crushing us, but it isn’t all that realistic to simply run away from what we can’t control to give ourselves the illusion that we’re still in control. In this particular process, we can actually end up giving God less room to work in our lives – less space to be our Friend and our Helper. We can disorient ourselves .Depriving ourselves of the Eucharist (I’m sure our Blessed Lord Himself would tell us) is not the answer.

Fathers have rights – perhaps this is an issue Amy hoped to avoid. Or maybe she simply believes she is protecting her child by keeping the father out of it. Either way, it only works for the immediate interim.

Whatever her reasons , I would still question the wisdom of listing the name of the father as “unknown” on the birth certificate. First of all, it isn’t true.

Several other considerations:

What if something were to happen which meant that Amy could no longer care for her child . . . then what ?

There are good reasons for establishing paternity - reasons which have the child’s best interests at heart. Here are just several from among more listed by the Missouri Department of Social Services, Paternity Information For Moms and Dads

Identity – It is important to everyone to know who their parents are. Knowing both parents can give a child a sense of belonging.

Medical – Children need to know if they have inherited any special health problems. If a child develops a serious medical condition, it may be necessary to identify relatives with compatible blood or tissue types. Employers usually require paternity to be established before a father can add his child to his health insurance plan.

The advantages of establishing paternity outweigh whatever disadvantages Amy may perceive in her present mindset – that is, if we’re considering the well-being of her child ; which is most likely what I suspect the priest was considering – the well-being of her child in the future. . . in the long run.

Just because a father has rights, it shouldn’t be permitted to cloud Amy’s understanding of what is best for her child . Her child has rights too – and Amy has already respected her child’s greatest right – the right to life.

Hopefully , it won’t simply end there without progressing any further. I’m praying that with God’s help she will be able to do what is best for both her and her child.

 

[1ke]

On the baby’s birth certificate, the father was listed as “unknown.” I agree that the priest probably wanted to know who the father was for the baptismal records, but failed to approach it in a tactful way.

You do not know that. You have only a second hand story that may not be accurate. Feelings are not facts.

She is not so much “withholding Mass attendance” as avoiding that particular priest, who happens to be the only priest in the area. If she lived in a city with 5+ parishes like I do, she would just have started attending Mass elsewhere.

She is an adult. She should just talk to the priest about it.

I agree that we should not compromise our values to “keep the pews filled,” however, we also need to have room for those souls who are struggling and in the beginning stages of conversion.

Nothing here indicates otherwise.

Really, she needs to be an adult and simply talk to the priest.

 

[Phemie]

Fathers have rights – perhaps this is an issue Amy hoped to avoid. Or maybe she simply believes she is protecting her child by keeping the father out of it. Either way, it only works for the immediate interim.

Whatever her reasons , I would still question the wisdom of listing the name of the father as “unknown” on the birth certificate. First of all, it isn’t true.

Several other considerations:

What if something were to happen which meant that Amy could no longer care for her child . . . then what ?

There are good reasons for establishing paternity - reasons which have the child’s best interests at heart. Here are just several from among more listed by the Missouri Department of Social Services, Paternity Information For Moms and Dads

First of all, where I’m from a single mother can’t just put someone’s name as the father on the birth record. That someone has to declare he is the father. Otherwise, think of the possibilities… If a single woman files a return of birth with the dad’s name included and he hasn’t signed, they contact her, give her 30 days to correct that and, if not corrected within the allotted time, the father is recorded as ‘unknown’.

That said, there can be very good reasons to not reveal paternity.

My friend listed the father as unknown on her daughter’s birth certificate. Why? Because just before she found out she was pregnant, her boyfriend held a knife to her throat and threatened to kill her. It was the pregnancy that gave her the courage to get out of the relationship, come home, and start her life anew. She never told him she was pregnant and she did everything she could to protect her child from an abuser. She has now married and her child has been adopted by her husband.

 

[EasterJoy]

First of all, where I’m from a single mother can’t just put someone’s name as the father on the birth record. That someone has to declare he is the father. Otherwise, think of the possibilities… If a single woman files a return of birth with the dad’s name included and he hasn’t signed, they contact her, give her 30 days to correct that and, if not corrected within the allotted time, the father is recorded as ‘unknown’.

That said, there can be very good reasons to not reveal paternity.

My friend listed the father as unknown on her daughter’s birth certificate. Why? Because just before she found out she was pregnant, her boyfriend held a knife to her throat and threatened to kill her. It was the pregnancy that gave her the courage to get out of the relationship, come home, and start her life anew. She never told him she was pregnant and she did everything she could to protect her child from an abuser. She has now married and her child has been adopted by her husband.

In the State of Oregon, the Vital Records department will also provide “parent-parent” birth certificates for lesbian couples, as a way of establishing the legal rights of parents for both. Attorneys do caution that the federal government and other states may not recognize this as proof of parental rights.

Still, a priest has legitimate reason to ask this kind of a question, and he has a legitimate cause for concern when the parent of a newly-baptized child doesn’t want to answer the question. When you approach the Church for the baptism of your child, you imply that you yourself are under the pastoral care of the priest in that parish. That doesn’t mean he can do what he wants, but do keep in mind that he does not have a family of his own precisely so he will be free to “mind” the families under his pastoral care. Sometimes, the work of “minding his business” is going to leave him duty-bound to “mind” yours, too. As for secrets, a secret with a legitimate need to be kept can be kept very well by a priest.

 

[SamH]

My friend listed the father as unknown on her daughter’s birth certificate. Why? Because just before she found out she was pregnant, her boyfriend held a knife to her throat and threatened to kill her. It was the pregnancy that gave her the courage to get out of the relationship, come home, and start her life anew. She never told him she was pregnant and she did everything she could to protect her child from an abuser. She has now married and her child has been adopted by her husband.

And she chose to have children with this man?

 

[Phemie]

And she chose to have children with this man?

I doubt that she chose to get pregnant. She was an immature 20 year old who did very stupid things. It was the pregnancy that forced her to grow up and make the choices that were the best for her child.

 

[Moore11]

I doubt that she chose to get pregnant. She was an immature 20 year old who did very stupid things. It was the pregnancy that forced her to grow up and make the choices that were the best for her child.

How do you choose not to get pregnant?

 

[MSSheBear]

First of all, where I’m from a single mother can’t just put someone’s name as the father on the birth record. That someone has to declare he is the father. Otherwise, think of the possibilities… If a single woman files a return of birth with the dad’s name included and he hasn’t signed, they contact her, give her 30 days to correct that and, if not corrected within the allotted time, the father is recorded as ‘unknown’.

That said, there can be very good reasons to not reveal paternity.

My friend listed the father as unknown on her daughter’s birth certificate. Why? Because just before she found out she was pregnant, her boyfriend held a knife to her throat and threatened to kill her. It was the pregnancy that gave her the courage to get out of the relationship, come home, and start her life anew. She never told him she was pregnant and she did everything she could to protect her child from an abuser. She has now married and her child has been adopted by her husband.

Here in the States, once a child has been adopted the adoptive parent is the parent. I assume in Canada that is the case too and that the priest was out of line. Yes, someone should have a talk with the priest. I will be honest, I live in an urban area and if it were me I’d just find another parish.

By the way in California the birth mother could traditionally just put any man’s name on the birth certificate. I guess that is still the case but not everyone was pleased with it in the past. I assume it is still the case in most states.

 

[NeedImprovement]

First of all, where I’m from a single mother can’t just put someone’s name as the father on the birth record. That someone has to declare he is the father. Otherwise, think of the possibilities… If a single woman files a return of birth with the dad’s name included and he hasn’t signed, they contact her, give her 30 days to correct that and, if not corrected within the allotted time, the father is recorded as ‘unknown’.

That said, there can be very good reasons to not reveal paternity.

My friend listed the father as unknown on her daughter’s birth certificate. Why? Because just before she found out she was pregnant, her boyfriend held a knife to her throat and threatened to kill her. It was the pregnancy that gave her the courage to get out of the relationship, come home, and start her life anew. She never told him she was pregnant and she did everything she could to protect her child from an abuser. She has now married and her child has been adopted by her husband.

Thanks for explaining how the hospital does it Phemie.

It sounds as if your friend did what was best for her and for the child. I don’t suppose it will be easy to ever tell her child the entire truth. . . some things that a mom just has to carry around in her heart sometimes. A few moms I know personally have to carry around certain “secrets” like that .

Abusers don’t always remain abusers in every case. We guys can do some pretty dumb things when we’re young (and when we’re not that young too) .

But Alessandro Serenelli - Maria Goretti’s murderer, would be one of the more extreme cases of a total turnaround : Let out of prison 3 years early because of good behaviour and ended up living most of the rest of his life in a Capuchin monastery ; was forgiven by Maria Goretti’s mother and "From that time he was welcomed in that profoundly Christian family of the Gorettis as ‘Uncle Alessandro’ ".

Trying to get someone whom you’ve gotten pregnant to have an abortion is also abuse - regardless of what the laws (or lack of laws here) say.

But I didn’t see it mentioned anywhere in the thread that the father of Amy’s child is a physical abuser like the father of your friend’s child was.

There’s an incredible lack of information pertinent to this thread’s particular case. However , I have a difficult time imagining that if Amy were in the same situation as your friend was, and told the priest that the father of her child was physically abusive to her, that the priest would want to put her back in danger.

I was trying to figure out when to stop posting on this thread. I think you’ve helped me see that, given all the blanks in this scenario, anything more coming from this keyboard is going to be pointless.
Thanks
God Bless.

PS. Depriving oneself of the Blessed Eucharist is still not the answer . The evil one would love nothing better than for us to stop receiving Holy Communion.

In the biography of St. André Bessette (Brother André - founder of St. Joseph’s Oratory here in Montreal) - The Wonder Man of Mount Royal we find a very *matter of fact *analogy comparing our soul’s need for the Eucharist to our body’s need for food ; and this as it relates to people who told him they were avoiding Mass because they didn’t like a certain priest’s character traits or the way a certain priest gave a homily. When Brother André was presented these excuses, he simply replied [paraphrase], “So . . . ?. . . You still buy groceries even if you don’t like the cashier or clerk - don’t you ?”

 

[Moore11]

I was trying to figure out when to stop posting on this thread. I think you’ve helped me see that, given all the blanks in this scenario, anything more coming from this keyboard is going to be pointless.
Thanks
God Bless.

I think that is a good point. I think everyone on here agrees that the parties involved should TALK like grownups. Go talk to the priest. Have an open conversation like an adult without all the drama and there would be no problem at all.
Beyond that any description of “the evil guy” is tainted hearsay and could or could not be true.

 

[Phemie]

Still, a priest has legitimate reason to ask this kind of a question, and he has a legitimate cause for concern when the parent of a newly-baptized child doesn’t want to answer the question. When you approach the Church for the baptism of your child, you imply that you yourself are under the pastoral care of the priest in that parish. That doesn’t mean he can do what he wants, but do keep in mind that he does not have a family of his own precisely so he will be free to “mind” the families under his pastoral care. Sometimes, the work of “minding his business” is going to leave him duty-bound to “mind” yours, too. As for secrets, a secret with a legitimate need to be kept can be kept very well by a priest.

A lot of people seem to assume that he simply wanted to record it. That means it would no longer be secret.

In a conversation about grandmothers who take it upon themselves to secretly baptize their grandchildren (an urge I’ve had to fight to resist) my pastor told me of a case where a parishioner in one of his former parishes told him in confidence that she had baptized her grandchild without the parents’ knowledge. Because it was in confidence he says he couldn’t enter it in the baptismal register.

 

[SamH]

How do you choose not to get pregnant?

The old fashion way is to not have sex with the person.

 

[Moore11]

The old fashion way is to not have sex with the person.

 

[EasterJoy]

A lot of people seem to assume that he simply wanted to record it. That means it would no longer be secret.

In a conversation about grandmothers who take it upon themselves to secretly baptize their grandchildren (an urge I’ve had to fight to resist) my pastor told me of a case where a parishioner in one of his former parishes told him in confidence that she had baptized her grandchild without the parents’ knowledge. Because it was in confidence he says he couldn’t enter it in the baptismal register.

My point is that he is her pastor, and he has a right to try to discuss these issues with her. She can tell him her reasons for withholding the information, and they can discuss what can be done to meet her needs. For all we know, the diocese is quite able to seal this information from those who ought not have it. As it is, she’s acting as if the baptized have no duty to be candid with those who have been given authority over them. This poor mother may be absenting herself from Mass for no good reason whatsoever, because she does not understand the situation and therefore feels ill-used by her pastor. I’m generally against butting in when you have no business to stick your nose in, but the godmother of this child has legitimate cause to look into what the issue is, so that an understanding can be reached between the mother and her pastor.

As Steven Covey put it: The main thing is to keep the main thing the main thing. It makes no difference whether the pastor or the mother or both are “to blame” for the situation. All that matters is finding a meeting of the minds, so the mother will once again desire to come to church and feel as if she has a pastor who cares about her and who can be trusted. That’s the thing, and the godmother has “authority” to help facilitate that.

 

[NeedImprovement]

In the biography of St. André Bessette (Brother André - founder of St. Joseph’s Oratory here in Montreal) - The Wonder Man of Mount Royal we find a very *matter of fact *analogy comparing our soul’s need for the Eucharist to our body’s need for food ; and this as it relates to people who told him they were avoiding Mass because they didn’t like a certain priest’s character traits or the way a certain priest gave a homily. When Brother André was presented these excuses, he simply replied [paraphrase], “So . . . ?. . . You still buy groceries even if you don’t like the cashier or clerk - don’t you ?”

. . . spent a few days reading the book Brother André c.s.c.,The Wonder Man of Mount Royal ; by Henri-Paul Bergeron, c.s.c. ; english version] again (I think I read it at least 4 times when I was younger) - what an amazing apostolate - so many miracles taking place practically on a daily basis when St.(Brother) André was alive and serving at St. Joseph’s Oratory which he founded ( Bother André died January 6, 1937).

The last several days I’d been trying to locate the original context of that paraphrase I posted which is quoted above . . . but no luck . . . even after skimming through the book twice and beginning to see someone who looked a lot like this little guy in the mirror as a consequence . . . http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii269/theogrit/1sm056pullhair.gif

. . . Wasn’t long before I started questioning myself - wondering if it was something I read which the Curé of Ars said instead of St. André Bessette. Finally, about 45 minutes ago, I said a frustrated prayer to Brother André that went something like this :

First I picked up the book and held it in my hand, then said “I’d like to be sure I’m quoting you on that thread Bother André. I’ve spent a lot of time trying to verify that. . . if it is in this book, maybe you should just show me now.” Then closing my eyes, I continued," Why don’t you just help me open it at the right page. . . "

Guys . . . that’s exactly what happened: With my eyes closed I proceeded to randomly open the book to what happened to be page # 104 and there the text was right in front of me. Although it wasn’t that much of a consolation to discover I was proving to be considerably more efficient with my eyes closed than I was burning them out scouring through the book for several hours a couple of times well into the night , I figured that, since it appeared I now had (Saint) Brother Andrés attention, it would be an opportune time to throw in a couple of “thankyou” 's too.

(all that time spent perusing, when I could’ve caught up a little on my prayers instead . . . :doh2: .)

Unlike the paraphrase, the quote doesn’t precisely fit the literal context of the practical analogy comparing our needing the Eucharist for our souls as much as we need food for our bodies , but it is most accurate on not giving up Mass (or our religion entirely simply) because of any minister’s character traits. here’s the original :

Brother André, c.s.c. , The Wonder Man of Mount Royal ; H.P. Bergeron, c.s.c. ; excerpt from page # 104, © St. Joseph’s Oratory

**He knew how to make use of the most realistic comparisons in confuting erroneous opinions. To one, for instance, who declared that he had given up his religion because he had lost confidence in priests, he replied : " When you purchase something in a store, are you not indifferent as to whether the clerk who waits on you leads a good life or a bad one ?" **
.

Too often, single moms are left alone to fend for themselves. I think a fair interim solution would be for someone to give of their time to accompany Amy as a friend to and from Mass until someone has the presence of mind to clear the air. Regardless of a person’s disposition, they would be much less likely to feel obliged (cornered) in a given situation when they are accompanied by a friend.