Russian Orthodox Church Warns Of Violence As It 'Cuts Ties' With [Ecumenical Patriarch] Bartholomew

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" ‘If the [Moscow Patriarchate] recognizes the church as an aggressor, if it is deprived of legal rights, then we can expect everything: that the schismatics will take control of the great monasteries, such as the Kyiv-Pechersk Lavra, the Pochayev Lavra,’ Metropolitan Ilarion, the chairman of the Russian Orthodox Church’s External Relations Department, said in a September 15 interview on Russian RT television.

‘Then, of course, the Orthodox believers will protect these holy places and bloodshed could follow,’ he added."

Looks like this is likely to get even uglier. 😦

…Meanwhile, a poll recently found that over 45% of all Orthodox in Ukraine claim affiliation with the Kyiv Patriarchate, 33% say they are “just Orthodox,” 16.9% with the Moscow Patriarchate, and 2.1% with the Ukrainian Autocephalous Orthodox Church.

 
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emilysue said:
Looks like this is likely to get even uglier. 😦
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Who knows, maybe it will end well?

There are some definite upsides. Catholic apologists get a useful recent example showing why having national Churches with strong ties to the national governments (and no authority over them) are, um, suboptimal. Maybe relations between Catholics and non-Moscow Eastern Orthodox will improve once they won’t have to keep good relations with anti-Catholic Moscow Patriarchate (with its delusions of “Third Rome”)?

Who knows - if things go just right, perhaps that might lead to at least partial healing of Great Schism?
 
MPat said:
Catholic apologists get a useful recent example showing why having national Churches with strong ties to the national governments (and no authority over them) are, um, suboptimal.
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That sounds like an pretty accurate description of the Catholic Church in Poland. An example is valuable only insofar as it is impervious to counterexamples.
 
AndrewAxland said:
That sounds like an pretty accurate description of the Catholic Church in Poland. An example is valuable only insofar as it is impervious to counterexamples.
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See part “and no authority over them”. Catholic Church in Poland (and elsewhere) has a higher authority - Pope, Curia, Ecumenical Councils.
 
MPat said:
“and no authority over them”
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The Polish Church is pretty oblivious to the higher authorities and the Church as a whole. It’s its own little nationalistic bubble or microcosm within the Church as a whole. I lived there twelve years myself, and avidly read the local Catholic publications. It was quite a shock.
 
AndrewAxland said:
The Polish Church is pretty oblivious to the higher authorities and the Church as a whole. It’s its own little nationalistic bubble or microcosm within the Church as a whole. I lived there twelve years myself, and avidly read the local Catholic publications. It was quite a shock.
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I find that suspiciously unspecific…

And the bishops are still appointed by the Pope.

But anyway, that is not what this thread is supposed to be about.
 
Are you talking about the PNCC or the RC in Poland? Two different things
 
And the bishops are still appointed by the Pope.
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The Catholic Church in China might be a better counterexample, if recent news is any indication.
 
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The Ecumenical Patriarch is under great pressure from the Turkish government as well as from Moscow. We should pray for all Eastern Christians. Most of us in the West have no idea the pressures that they are under.
 
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