Russian punk band 'blasphemy' trial - thoughts?

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GWright said:
What P*ssy Riot did was wrong.
  • Freedom of worship is a (universally recognised) fundamental human right. P-Riot disrupted that right for other people. The international community condemns nations which mess with peoples fundamental rights, so no-one should praise it or portray it as harmless in miniature.
  • They also caused alarm (to those who were present) which is the defintion (in the UK) of a “breach of the peace” (most countries have similar laws).
So there is very much a case for them to answer.

It is frankly infantile to suggest that any punishment for these crimes mean the Orthodox Church and Russian State are unhealithy close.

At the end of the day, neither Patriarch Krill or President Putin were the victims.

The victims were the ordinary people who had their prayers disrupted and were offended by this behaviour in a sacred place. (and those who were disgusted by reading about it in the news).

What if there had been a body lying in state, or a funeral in progress when they descended on the Church? Would they have had the decency / nous to change their plan? I am not so sure.

Ironically, the band’s problem is putin, not the orthodox church. Their choice of location was entirely erroneous - it was an easy, unrelated target, which they knew would garner cheap publicity, this was not a brave or bold act.

The only people who defend this are people who have no respect for anything, and do not value the feelings of others.

The only news outlet giving it much coverage in the UK is the Guardian, which is viciously anti-clerical and childishly champions every such vaucous act of puerile attention seeking. Essentially, its a newspaper (more a comic) for hateful, mixed-up people from the fringes of society. No-one else is interested.

P-Riot should get a fair trial and an appropriate punishment for their crimes.

Someone suggested elsewhere that each doing several hundred hours of cleaning work in Orthodox Churches might be sufficient. (with the results posted on you-tube of course).

The incident reminds me of when gay HIV+ group ACT-UP disrupted a Catholic mass at St Patricks Cathedral in New York. They threw used-condoms about and the eucharist on the floor. It was a PR disaster and only earned them the abject revulsion of any decent person.
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You have no right *not to be *offended.
 
GWright said:
What P*ssy Riot did was wrong.
  • Freedom of worship is a (universally recognised) fundamental human right. P-Riot disrupted that right for other people. The international community condemns nations which mess with peoples fundamental rights, so no-one should praise it or portray it as harmless in miniature.
  • They also caused alarm (to those who were present) which is the defintion (in the UK) of a “breach of the peace” (most countries have similar laws).
So there is very much a case for them to answer.

It is frankly infantile to suggest that any punishment for these crimes mean the Orthodox Church and Russian State are unhealithy close.

At the end of the day, neither Patriarch Krill or President Putin were the victims.

The victims were the ordinary people who had their prayers disrupted and were offended by this behaviour in a sacred place. (and those who were disgusted by reading about it in the news).

What if there had been a body lying in state, or a funeral in progress when they descended on the Church? Would they have had the decency / nous to change their plan? I am not so sure.

Ironically, the band’s problem is putin, not the orthodox church. Their choice of location was entirely erroneous - it was an easy, unrelated target, which they knew would garner cheap publicity, this was not a brave or bold act.

The only people who defend this are people who have no respect for anything, and do not value the feelings of others.

The only news outlet giving it much coverage in the UK is the Guardian, which is viciously anti-clerical and childishly champions every such vaucous act of puerile attention seeking. Essentially, its a newspaper (more a comic) for hateful, mixed-up people from the fringes of society. No-one else is interested.

P-Riot should get a fair trial and an appropriate punishment for their crimes.

Someone suggested elsewhere that each doing several hundred hours of cleaning work in Orthodox Churches might be sufficient. (with the results posted on you-tube of course).

The incident reminds me of when gay HIV+ group ACT-UP disrupted a Catholic mass at St Patricks Cathedral in New York. They threw used-condoms about and the eucharist on the floor. It was a PR disaster and only earned them the abject revulsion of any decent person.
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That’s a very big assumption.
Got anything to back it up?
 
What did they say about my Mom? Would they like to repeat it to Jesus, or would these fools like to sing their lyrics to Jesus on Judgement day? This isn’t funny, and it is disgusting how lightly blasphemy is treated today.
 
GWright said:
Regarding the Spanish Civil War - Who would you support?

The Soviet-backed side which murdered about 7,000 Catholic priests and nuns, destroyed Churches and persecuted the faithful,

OR

The other guy (Franco) whom the western democracies (UK, US, France) also supported and sent aid?

The Spanish Civil War is an amazing example of media revisionism.

**Franco is remember as a brutal dictator, in cahoots with Hilter, Mussolini and the Church. ** That the Western Democracies also supported him is conveniently forgotten.

The many atrocities of the communist-anarchist side in the conflcit are also conveniently swept under the carpet.

The Church was right to support Franco.

Imo, General Franscisco Franco was a great man. The Spanish can thank him for having their modern, stable, first-world state.

If the communist-anarchist side won, Spain would long since have been a failed state (as per the ultimate fate of their Soviet backers).
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And so he was.
Franco’s most important ally during the Civil War was Nazi Germany.
Both sides committed atrocities during that war, but for Franco’s forces (who won thanks to Nazi aid) the atrocities continued long after the war.
 
GWright said:
Regarding the Spanish Civil War - Who would you support?

The Soviet-backed side which murdered about 7,000 Catholic priests and nuns, destroyed Churches and persecuted the faithful,

OR

The other guy (Franco) whom the western democracies (UK, US, France) also supported and sent aid?

The Spanish Civil War is an amazing example of media revisionism.

Franco is remember as a brutal dictator, in cahoots with Hilter, Mussolini and the Church. That the Western Democracies also supported him is conveniently forgotten.

The many atrocities of the communist-anarchist side in the conflcit are also conveniently swept under the carpet.

The Church was right to support Franco.

Imo, General Franscisco Franco was a great man. The Spanish can thank him for having their modern, stable, first-world state.

If the communist-anarchist side won, Spain would long since have been a failed state (as per the ultimate fate of their Soviet backers).
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No, he was a brutal dictator and ultimately a failure.
Because his state was so weak (and enjoyed so little support from the Spanish people) that it died with him.
 
Angry athiest, your username backs it up, the people who disagree are bigots, and are intolerant of other peoples beliefs. How would you like it if your Mother was hurt? Not so funny now? You athiests are all the same, you hold little to no faith in things you don’t understand, yet little do you know that you only know of the things that are passing, and are limited to the temporal ruin of this world. It’s planting season, not slacking season.
 
Gods_Peace said:
What did they say about my Mom? Would they like to repeat it to Jesus, or would these fools like to sing their lyrics to Jesus on Judgement day? This isn’t funny, and it is disgusting how lightly blasphemy is treated today.
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Your mom:confused:

You were there?
 
Gods_Peace said:
What did they say about my Mom? Would they like to repeat it to Jesus, or would these fools like to sing their lyrics to Jesus on Judgement day? This isn’t funny, and it is disgusting how lightly blasphemy is treated today.
Click to expand...
No its good.
Words and ideas shouldn’t be considered thought crimes just because some priest or cleric says so.
 
Gods_Peace said:
Angry athiest, your username backs it up, the people who disagree are bigots, and are intolerant of other peoples beliefs. How would you like it if your Mother was hurt? Not so funny now? You athiests are all the same, you hold little to no faith in things you don’t understand, yet little do you know that you only know of the things that are passing, and are limited to the temporal ruin of this world. It’s planting season, not slacking season.
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Thank you:D

And the Church is not a person.
Its an extremely old, powerful, and large human institution, that has done many questionable things in the past.
As such it should be able to handle a little criticism (even if that criticism is sometimes delivered in a vulgar way).
 
Gods_Peace said:
Angry athiest, your username backs it up, the people who disagree are bigots, and are intolerant of other peoples beliefs. How would you like it if your Mother was hurt? Not so funny now? You athiests are all the same, you hold little to no faith in things you don’t understand, yet little do you know that you only know of the things that are passing, and are limited to the temporal ruin of this world. It’s planting season, not slacking season.
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You are free to believe whatever you want:shrug:
 
“First they came for the Communists, but I was not a Communist so I did not speak out. Then they came for the Socialists and the Trade Unionists, but I was neither, so I did not speak out. Then they came for the Jews, but I was not a Jew so I did not speak out. And when they came for me, there was no one left to speak out for me.”
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Dietrich Bonhoffer: German Lutheran Pastor and Theologian. His involvement in a plot to overthrow Adolf Hitler led to his imprisonment and execution. 1906-1945)
 
AngryAtheist8 said:
Thank you:D

And the Church is not a person.
Its an extremely old, powerful, and large human institution, that has done many questionable things in the past.
As such it should be able to handle a little criticism (even if that criticism is sometimes delivered in a vulgar way).
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It’s done quite a few good things in the past too. All old institutions made up of people will have done questionable things.
 
they deserve a nice long sentence to think about what they did.
they essentially trespassed onto private property with the intent of offending christians. therefore i think what they did should be classified as a hate crime. (i dont know if they have hate crimes in Russia) but what these idiots did was certainly deserving of jail time.
 
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AngryAtheist8 said:
No its good.
Words and ideas shouldn’t be considered thought crimes just because some priest or cleric says so.
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In the case of the punk musicians, it was not just words and ideas involved. It was invading a sacred place and offending people who had gone there to pray. In Russia, you are free to write an essay on atheism.
 
someperson555 said:
they deserve a nice long sentence to think about what they did.
they essentially trespassed onto private property with the intent of offending christians. therefore i think what they did should be classified as a hate crime. (i dont know if they have hate crimes in Russia) but what these idiots did was certainly deserving of jail time.
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Yes, especially since in the USA, you can get life in jail if you are hungry and steal a slice of pizza.
 
If they were doing it outside the church you can atleast defend them legally.But inside the church is another matter. Even if they were in the US or the UK they would be criminalized. Could you imagine having a bunch of masked teenagers screaming in your house? God I would call the police instantaneously:D
 
Angry Atheist do you think it’d be legal here? Given that they trespassed private property? Would you like a bunch of teenagers to trespass your house and mess it up? Wouldn’t it be nice with some profane grafiti on ur walls?
 
UnityofTrinity said:
If they were doing it outside the church you can atleast defend them legally.But inside the church is another matter. Even if they were in the US or the UK they would be criminalized. Could you imagine having a bunch of masked teenagers screaming in your house? God I would call the police instantaneously:D
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The sticking point for me is that they are facing 7 years in jail. That’s ridiculous for this type of offense. They should be punished though.
 
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