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Usbek_de_Perse
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I don’t know how I have lived so long without thinking of this.
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MrJeff
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To Roy:
On the point about the Voodoo priests, it was late, and I thought you brought this up as a point to support an argument. If not, I apologize for raising the issue as it is simply a distraction.
The original question of this thread was whether or not masturbation is a mortal sin, and by Catholic teaching, most often it clearly is. That is not one of my “simple opinions”, it is the truth according to the teachings of the Church, a truth you’re free to accept or reject. In the context of the question which assumes there are cases of mortal sin, your opinions are simply outside the scope of the discussion since you deviate from Church teaching. If you ask an atheist if it is a sin he will simply laugh and conclude nothing in life is a sin including masturbation, so making a point based on a different belief system doesn’t devalue the logic of the position within the applied system.
On this issue of celibacy in the Priesthood being a problem since it sets up an environment for pedophile priests, I agree completely that the environment of the priesthood is attractive to men who are pedophiles, particularly homosexuals; there is no disagreement here. The question is whether the fault lies with the requirement of celibacy in the first place or the individual coming into the environment. If priests were not celibate, but could marry even other members of the same sex, it’s still an environment that has the allure of power over children and others that is attractive and open to abuse. The access to adult sexual activity doesn’t bear on the attractiveness of a position to pedophiles, which is exactly why pedophilia is a particular problem in schools these days and other institutions where adults have direct contact and power over children. The fault still lies with the individual not meeting their commitments, not the requirement of the institution in question.
As for the issue of priests declining the priesthood because of celibacy, it’s pretty clear that this is a product of our times where sex is placed on such a high pedestal and society constantly harps on it as a measure of one’s self-worth and success; the calling is often drowned out. Young men that do however enter the priesthood but later leave because they can’t handle celibacy is not really an issue; it’s not the military, you can leave if you decide you don’t can’t or won’t conform to this requirement. Being a deacon is a very honorable thing, and is open to those who can’t make the vow of celibacy ( I know I can’t), and the Church provides a meaningful alternative to the priesthood.
I feel it’s fruitless to engage in further discussion since the points have been made, but I do hope you will consider these points seriously as will others who have problems with the issue of celibacy.
To those of you who conclude masturbation is no big deal, you better hope you’re right, but bear in mind those are your opinions, not those of the Catholic Church.
Cheers and God-Bless,
Jeff
On the point about the Voodoo priests, it was late, and I thought you brought this up as a point to support an argument. If not, I apologize for raising the issue as it is simply a distraction.
The original question of this thread was whether or not masturbation is a mortal sin, and by Catholic teaching, most often it clearly is. That is not one of my “simple opinions”, it is the truth according to the teachings of the Church, a truth you’re free to accept or reject. In the context of the question which assumes there are cases of mortal sin, your opinions are simply outside the scope of the discussion since you deviate from Church teaching. If you ask an atheist if it is a sin he will simply laugh and conclude nothing in life is a sin including masturbation, so making a point based on a different belief system doesn’t devalue the logic of the position within the applied system.
On this issue of celibacy in the Priesthood being a problem since it sets up an environment for pedophile priests, I agree completely that the environment of the priesthood is attractive to men who are pedophiles, particularly homosexuals; there is no disagreement here. The question is whether the fault lies with the requirement of celibacy in the first place or the individual coming into the environment. If priests were not celibate, but could marry even other members of the same sex, it’s still an environment that has the allure of power over children and others that is attractive and open to abuse. The access to adult sexual activity doesn’t bear on the attractiveness of a position to pedophiles, which is exactly why pedophilia is a particular problem in schools these days and other institutions where adults have direct contact and power over children. The fault still lies with the individual not meeting their commitments, not the requirement of the institution in question.
As for the issue of priests declining the priesthood because of celibacy, it’s pretty clear that this is a product of our times where sex is placed on such a high pedestal and society constantly harps on it as a measure of one’s self-worth and success; the calling is often drowned out. Young men that do however enter the priesthood but later leave because they can’t handle celibacy is not really an issue; it’s not the military, you can leave if you decide you don’t can’t or won’t conform to this requirement. Being a deacon is a very honorable thing, and is open to those who can’t make the vow of celibacy ( I know I can’t), and the Church provides a meaningful alternative to the priesthood.
I feel it’s fruitless to engage in further discussion since the points have been made, but I do hope you will consider these points seriously as will others who have problems with the issue of celibacy.
To those of you who conclude masturbation is no big deal, you better hope you’re right, but bear in mind those are your opinions, not those of the Catholic Church.
Cheers and God-Bless,
Jeff
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Usbek_de_Perse
Guest
well, haven’t we wandered off topic!
What started as a discussion of self-abuse as a sin has moved onto priestly celibacy, a bit of voodoo, and a brief, unpleasant, detour into animal husbandry.
The teachings of the Catholic Church have been stated authoritatively; some reasonable objections have been posed, and we come to no concensus.
I think this topic should end, unless there is someone with something NEW to add.
What started as a discussion of self-abuse as a sin has moved onto priestly celibacy, a bit of voodoo, and a brief, unpleasant, detour into animal husbandry.
The teachings of the Catholic Church have been stated authoritatively; some reasonable objections have been posed, and we come to no concensus.
I think this topic should end, unless there is someone with something NEW to add.
M
Michael_Francis
Guest
Agreed. There are already more than ample discussions of this topic.
Use the search feature to find them.
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Use the search feature to find them.
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
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