S/O of feminist thread - What is the job description for the "spiritual head" of the family?

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JamesBond007 said:
I never said Eve didn’t have power. I said she misused the power she had and desired more. Adam on the other hand didn’t want his and the responsibility that came with it. He was like a child that threw his dinner in the garbage because he didn’t like it. Eve, like a child, wanted more desert than was given to her and she got a stomach ate from eating what wasn’t hers.

Well, if a person can entrust themselves fully to God then there is no reason to marry at all and we could all “be as the angels who are neither given in marriage nor marry.” I think this answer is like trying to pray away cancer. Sure, it might work for some but probably not most. Faith and reason go hand in hand and reason shows 2 presidents do not get the job done.
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Marriage is not a corporation, it is not the army etc. A marriage based on love and respect does not have dominance or bosses in it.

We should not live life or a marriage on the basis that with the Fall, we are all sinners so we should act as sinners and not strive to lift ourselves up, to aspire to be what God wants us to be.

There are so many good marriages in which no one is the boss.
 
severus68 said:
Marriage is not a corporation, it is not the army etc. A marriage based on love and respect does not have dominance or bosses in it.

We should not live life or a marriage on the basis that with the Fall, we are all sinners so we should act as sinners and not strive to lift ourselves up, to aspire to be what God wants us to be.

There are so many good marriages in which no one is the boss.
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And there are ones that are great marriages with a “Boss” (mine)😉
 
Walking_Home said:
If both husband and wife – entrust themselves to the real and only head of a marriage-- God – His Grace will lead them. God is the only leader a marriage needs.
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:clapping::amen:

I don’t think one method is better than the other as far as who is the ‘head of the household’. Sure the man may be the breadwinner in a more traditional sense but when he gets home the ‘happy wife, happy life’ rule applies. As long as the family is thriving, emotionally and spiritually, does it really matter? I don’t think so…
 
Maybe – it looks like its working – because one doesn’t know what a real marriage in the Lord means. When one spouse is “suspended” by the other spouse from contributing to the decision making – that is one spouse subjugating the other – even if the one subjugated “accepts” it. This is not what God intends.
 
Hoosier_Daddy said:
And there are ones that are great marriages with a “Boss” (mine)😉
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I think that if it works for both you, that’s fine. The only time it becomes a problem is when people suggest others’ marriages have to follow suit.
 
AnnArbor said:
I think that if it works for both you, that’s fine. The only time it becomes a problem is when people suggest others’ marriages have to follow suit.
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If it is said and it has, that a wife’s obedience and subjection, is God’s law.
 
runwaymodel said:
:clapping::amen:

I don’t think one method is better than the other as far as who is the ‘head of the household’. Sure the man may be the breadwinner in a more traditional sense but when he gets home the ‘happy wife, happy life’ rule applies. As long as the family is thriving, emotionally and spiritually, does it really matter? I don’t think so…
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You side those who say they believe in some form of equality, but yet this “rule” applies. Whose subjugating who now? A bit contradictory I think.
severus68 said:
Marriage is not a corporation, it is not the army etc. A marriage based on love and respect does not have dominance or bosses in it.

We should not live life or a marriage on the basis that with the Fall, we are all sinners so we should act as sinners and not strive to lift ourselves up, to aspire to be what God wants us to be.

There are so many good marriages in which no one is the boss.
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Decisions need to be made in a marriage like any other institution and there are going to be disagreements / crisis situations where there needs to be a chain of command. It’s not meant to be a lorded power as you seem to be interpreting it. Have you ever tried to get people to agree on something? Doesn’t work well and nothing gets done because more time is spent arguing like Congress.

You seem to interpret “the boss” as a tyrannical dictator that issues “decrees” for the fun of it. If a man leads his family in accordance to God’s will then there is no reason NOT to follow him.

Answer me this though, if you think women are equally as capable as men at leading then:
  1. Why don’t you advocate for a female priesthood? Or do you? You identify as Catholic which is last I checked led by men who follow Christ (or at least are supposed to).
  2. Why do a lot more women than men support gay marriage (pewglobal.org/2013/06/04/the-global-divide-on-homosexuality/)??) What is a man to do in his family if his wife supports it but he doesn’t? Who decides what the kids should be taught? Maybe not a decision a president would make but still a clear case where emotion will probably trump logic.
  3. Why did women vote for the most pro-abortion / pro gay marriage / anti-Catholic president in history? (gallup.com/poll/158588/gender-gap-2012-vote-largest-gallup-history.aspx) What are they teaching their kids as in most cases they are the primary caregivers and educators?
  4. Why are women more affected by outside influences like media than men (today.yougov.com/news/2013/10/07/Body-Conscious/)??)
  5. Why do more women engage is homosexual acts than men (Another statistic)?
Now, there are certainly men that support abortion and gay marriage though I also tend to find such men believe in an egalitarian lifestyle where he doesn’t mind following his wife/gf. There is a positive correlation there and you did not answer my question to it in an earlier post. I think there is something telling here that we are pretending doesn’t exist.
 
JamesBond007 said:
You side those who say they believe in some form of equality, but yet this “rule” applies. Whose subjugating who now? A bit contradictory I think.

Decisions need to be made in a marriage like any other institution and there are going to be disagreements / crisis situations where there needs to be a chain of command. It’s not meant to be a lorded power as you seem to be interpreting it. Have you ever tried to get people to agree on something? Doesn’t work well and nothing gets done because more time is spent arguing like Congress.

You seem to interpret “the boss” as a tyrannical dictator that issues “decrees” for the fun of it. If a man leads his family in accordance to God’s will then there is no reason NOT to follow him.

Answer me this though, if you think women are equally as capable as men at leading then:
  1. **Why don’t you advocate for a female priesthood? Or do you? You identify as Catholic which is last I checked led by men who follow Christ (or at least are supposed to).
    **
  2. Why do a lot more women than men support gay marriage (pewglobal.org/2013/06/04/the-global-divide-on-homosexuality/)??) What is a man to do in his family if his wife supports it but he doesn’t? Who decides what the kids should be taught? Maybe not a decision a president would make but still a clear case where emotion will probably trump logic.
  3. Why did women vote for the most pro-abortion / pro gay marriage / anti-Catholic president in history? (gallup.com/poll/158588/gender-gap-2012-vote-largest-gallup-history.aspx) What are they teaching their kids as in most cases they are the primary caregivers and educators?
  4. Why are women more affected by outside influences like media than men (today.yougov.com/news/2013/10/07/Body-Conscious/)??)
  5. Why do more women engage is homosexual acts than men (Another statistic)?
Now, there are certainly men that support abortion and gay marriage though I also tend to find such men believe in an egalitarian lifestyle where he doesn’t mind following his wife/gf. There is a positive correlation there and you did not answer my question to it in an earlier post. I think there is something telling here that we are pretending doesn’t exist.
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CAF is not about getting personal. Discuss, don’t make personal comments or ask personal questions.
 
JamesBond007 said:
You side those who say they believe in some form of equality, but yet this “rule” applies. Whose subjugating who now? A bit contradictory I think.

Decisions need to be made in a marriage like any other institution and there are going to be disagreements / crisis situations where there needs to be a chain of command. It’s not meant to be a lorded power as you seem to be interpreting it. Have you ever tried to get people to agree on something? Doesn’t work well and nothing gets done because more time is spent arguing like Congress.

You seem to interpret “the boss” as a tyrannical dictator that issues “decrees” for the fun of it. If a man leads his family in accordance to God’s will then there is no reason NOT to follow him.

Answer me this though, if you think women are equally as capable as men at leading then:
  1. Why don’t you advocate for a female priesthood? Or do you? You identify as Catholic which is last I checked led by men who follow Christ (or at least are supposed to).
  2. Why do a lot more women than men support gay marriage (pewglobal.org/2013/06/04/the-global-divide-on-homosexuality/)??) What is a man to do in his family if his wife supports it but he doesn’t? Who decides what the kids should be taught? Maybe not a decision a president would make but still a clear case where emotion will probably trump logic.
  3. Why did women vote for the most pro-abortion / pro gay marriage / anti-Catholic president in history? (gallup.com/poll/158588/gender-gap-2012-vote-largest-gallup-history.aspx) What are they teaching their kids as in most cases they are the primary caregivers and educators?
  4. Why are women more affected by outside influences like media than men (today.yougov.com/news/2013/10/07/Body-Conscious/)??)
  5. Why do more women engage is homosexual acts than men (Another statistic)?
Now, there are certainly men that support abortion and gay marriage though I also tend to find such men believe in an egalitarian lifestyle where he doesn’t mind following his wife/gf. There is a positive correlation there and you did not answer my question to it in an earlier post. I think there is something telling here that we are pretending doesn’t exist.
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Human beings have free will – and this free will at times --is expressed negatively. This applies to both men and women. But one sex thinking that it is up to them to “take charge”/“take control” over the other sex – to keep them from “behaving badly” – well that is subjugation/domination – a negative expression of the controlling sex.

We change a negatively expressed free will – through conversion – Not by giving one sex control over the other sex.
 
severus68 said:
CAF is not about getting personal. Discuss, don’t make personal comments or ask personal questions.
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My apologies. Allow me to rephrase. It is entirely inconsistent for anyone to espouse a philosophy of “no spiritual head - let alone male” yet support an all male priesthood. The first sign of a weak argument is inconsistent logic.
Walking_Home said:
Human beings have free will – and this free will at times --is expressed negatively. This applies to both men and women. But one sex thinking that it is up to them to “take charge”/“take control” over the other sex – to keep them from “behaving badly” – well that is subjugation/domination – a negative expression of the controlling sex.

We change a negatively expressed free will – through conversion – Not by giving one sex control over the other sex.
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I’m not really sure what you mean by “taking charge.” I don’t think anyone who believes in male headship is advocating the kind of ferocity I’m hearing from the words “take charge.” Let’s suppose a mother decides to tell her kids that gay marriage or abortion is ok. If dad said “sorry honey but you are not teaching our kids that” then she should not do so. Also, if dad wants the kids homeschooled but mom doesn’t she should defer to that especially these days with the indoctrination that goes on. Mom doesn’t have to be the one to homeschool but I know a lot of women that would cringe at such a suggestion.

It’s not about “controlling the other sex.” It’s about propagating the faith correctly which men have been charged with for generations (all male priesthood). God’s commandment to women was to support us in that effort. Clearly, that has not happened and we are now seeing the fruits of it.
 
JamesBond007 said:
My apologies. Allow me to rephrase. It is entirely inconsistent for anyone to espouse a philosophy of “no spiritual head - let alone male” yet support an all male priesthood. The first sign of a weak argument is inconsistent logic.

I’m not really sure what you mean by “taking charge.” I don’t think anyone who believes in male headship is advocating the kind of ferocity I’m hearing from the words “take charge.” Let’s suppose a mother decides to tell her kids that gay marriage or abortion is ok. If dad said “sorry honey but you are not teaching our kids that” then she should not do so. Also, if dad wants the kids homeschooled but mom doesn’t she should defer to that especially these days with the indoctrination that goes on. Mom doesn’t have to be the one to homeschool but I know a lot of women that would cringe at such a suggestion.

It’s not about “controlling the other sex.” It’s about propagating the faith correctly which men have been charged with for generations (all male priesthood). God’s commandment to women was to support us in that effort. Clearly, that has not happened and we are now seeing the fruits of it.
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So women were created to “serve”/“support” men-- Nope. The Church teaches – the mutual subjection of the husband and wife. The husband to the wife – the wife to the husband-- each one supports each other. As far as propagating the Faith – in a marriage – it falls to both.
 
Walking_Home said:
So women were created to “serve”/“support” men-- Nope. The Church teaches – the mutual subjection of the husband and wife. The husband to the wife – the wife to the husband-- each one supports each other. As far as propagating the Faith – in a marriage – it falls to both.
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If you read my entire post you would have seen the part where I said “men are charged with spreading the faith God handed to us and women are our support in that process.” It is not about women “serving” men as much as it is women “supporting” us in our God given mission. If one does not support an all-male priesthood then their opposition is understood though not necessarily justified.

The Biblical verse you reference talks about the body, “the husband has not power over his own body but the wife and the wife does not have power over her body but the husband does.” It deals with sex, not larger issues.
 
JamesBond007 said:
If you read my entire post you would have seen the part where I said “men are charged with spreading the faith God handed to us and women are our support in that process.” It is not about women “serving” men as much as it is women “supporting” us in our God given mission.** If one does not support an all-male priesthood then their opposition is understood though not necessarily justified.**

The Biblical verse you reference talks about the body, “the husband has not power over his own body but the wife and the wife does not have power over her body but the husband does.” It deals with sex, not larger issues.
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You are sounding Mormon – they are quite heavy on the “priesthood” of the husband to subject women.

Again – the Church assigns the transmission of the Faith – to both the parents. Not one as the teacher and the other as the supporter. Both are equally responsible – for transmitting the Faith to the children. The Catholic Church teaches the priesthood of all the faithful – both men and women. Holy Orders is for men only.
 
JamesBond007 said:
My apologies. Allow me to rephrase. It is entirely inconsistent for anyone to espouse a philosophy of “no spiritual head - let alone male” yet support an all male priesthood. The first sign of a weak argument is inconsistent logic.
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On priests, please see what I have said above.
What fruits?
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I think I’m done with this discussion. Severus and Walking, you define words differently and have your own interpretations that are quite clearly are “better than everyone elses.” It is impossible to debate with those who refuse to look at the statistics and see the numbers for what they are. Holy Orders for men only are OK in your book, but not women yet you advocate that women are just as capable as men? That point of view is more contradictory than dry water.

Fact:
Statistically more women than men supported the most pro-abortion / pro gay marriage / anti Catholic president in history.

Fact:
More women than men support gay marriage.

Fact:
Women are more easily swayed by media than men.

These evils of society were made possible by feminizing everything and putting “feelings” ahead of what is right by God’s standard.
 
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