?s regard the Passover "Prefiguring" the celebration of the Mass/Eucharist

[SingleMomMonica]

1. During the original Passover and all subsequent Passovers before Jesus establised the Church - the Jews were required to paint the door posts with the Blood of the Lamb - yet we drink it but do not paint the door posts. I know we drink it because God told us to in John 6, but why did God have the Jews back then paint the door posts with it, since He knew He was going to have Christians drink the blood in the future?
2. During the original Passover and all subsequent Passovers before Jesus established the Church - it was a requirement that the Jews eat the Entire Lamb and leave nothing left over to the next day - yet during Mass, not all of the Consecrated Hosts are eaten, but some are left over in the Tabernacle to be used at a later date and there is always at least 1 left over at all times…why was it a requirement back then to consume the Entire Lamb, if it was not to be a requirement now?

Do these two substantial differences negate the Old Testament “Prefigurement” of the New Testament in regard to the Eucharist?

 

[Guyonthestreet]

1. During the original Passover and all subsequent Passovers before Jesus establised the Church - the Jews were required to paint the door posts with the Blood of the Lamb - yet we drink it but do not paint the door posts. I know we drink it because God told us to in John 6, but why did God have the Jews back then paint the door posts with it, since He knew He was going to have Christians drink the blood in the future?
2. During the original Passover and all subsequent Passovers before Jesus established the Church - it was a requirement that the Jews eat the Entire Lamb and leave nothing left over to the next day - yet during Mass, not all of the Consecrated Hosts are eaten, but some are left over in the Tabernacle to be used at a later date and there is always at least 1 left over at all times…why was it a requirement back then to consume the Entire Lamb, if it was not to be a requirement now?

Do these two substantial differences negate the Old Testament “Prefigurement” of the New Testament in regard to the Eucharist?

1 - Jesus had not yet come - they could not drink His blood.

2 - The sacred eucharist contains the body soul and divinity of Jesus - in it;s entirity - when you consume the host - there is nothing leftover.

My 2 euro’s worth

 

[Convert66]

Good questions . . .hopefully I have good answers, even though they are off the top of my head and certainly not doctrine, per se.

1. During the original Passover and all subsequent Passovers before Jesus establised the Church - the Jews were required to paint the door posts with the Blood of the Lamb - yet we drink it but do not paint the door posts. I know we drink it because God told us to in John 6, but why did God have the Jews back then paint the door posts with it, since He knew He was going to have Christians drink the blood in the future?

I’m going to venture a guess here and say that since they had to paint the doors to their house, maybe their house was itself a prefigurement of the NT understandiong of our body as the Temple of the Holy Spirit? Therefore, in the New Covenant, the blood is “painting the doors” of our temple. The benefits of the Eucharist are similar, if you think about it. “He who does not eat my flesh and drink my blood has no life in him.”

So maybe in that sense as we “paint the doors of our temple” with Christ’s own blood, the “angel of death” passes over us.

1. During the original Passover and all subsequent Passovers before Jesus established the Church - it was a requirement that the Jews eat the Entire Lamb and leave nothing left over to the next day - yet during Mass, not all of the Consecrated Hosts are eaten, but some are left over in the Tabernacle to be used at a later date and there is always at least 1 left over at all times…why was it a requirement back then to consume the Entire Lamb, if it was not to be a requirement now?

I think I’d go with the type being the lesser-than of the fulfillment on this one. What I mean is that Jesus said “I will be with you always, even unto the end of the age.” But the Passover Lamb was just temporal. We could ask the same thing about daily Mass or even weekly Mass, and say it should only be once a year on Holy Thursday, but since the fulfillment is greater than the type, it applies in a greater way. (again, I’m no theologian or anything—so you may want to float this to the Ask an Apologist thread).

Do these two substantial differences negate the Old Testament “Prefigurement” of the New Testament in regard to the Eucharist?

I would think it doesn’t, any more than the fact of King David never walking on water or dying on a cross negates the Passion.

I hope that helps . . .

 

[josie_L]

1. During the original Passover and all subsequent Passovers before Jesus establised the Church - the Jews were required to paint the door posts with the Blood of the Lamb - yet we drink it but do not paint the door posts. I know we drink it because God told us to in John 6, but why did God have the Jews back then paint the door posts with it, since He knew He was going to have Christians drink the blood in the future?
2. During the original Passover and all subsequent Passovers before Jesus established the Church - it was a requirement that the Jews eat the Entire Lamb and leave nothing left over to the next day - yet during Mass, not all of the Consecrated Hosts are eaten, but some are left over in the Tabernacle to be used at a later date and there is always at least 1 left over at all times…why was it a requirement back then to consume the Entire Lamb, if it was not to be a requirement now?

Do these two substantial differences negate the Old Testament “Prefigurement” of the New Testament in regard to the Eucharist?

1. Well it would be pretty odd for Jews to be literally drinking lamb’s blood as it is not hidden in the species of wine like Jesus’s blood is. I don’t think a prefigurement furthermore needs to be an exact representation although the passover pretty much mimics the eucharist in the NT.
2. We do eat the entire lamb as the eucharistic contains the body, blood, soul and divinity of Christ.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

1. During the original Passover and all subsequent Passovers before Jesus establised the Church - the Jews were required to paint the door posts with the Blood of the Lamb - yet we drink it but do not paint the door posts. I know we drink it because God told us to in John 6, but why did God have the Jews back then paint the door posts with it, since He knew He was going to have Christians drink the blood in the future?
2. During the original Passover and all subsequent Passovers before Jesus established the Church - it was a requirement that the Jews eat the Entire Lamb and leave nothing left over to the next day - yet during Mass, not all of the Consecrated Hosts are eaten, but some are left over in the Tabernacle to be used at a later date and there is always at least 1 left over at all times…why was it a requirement back then to consume the Entire Lamb, if it was not to be a requirement now?

Do these two substantial differences negate the Old Testament “Prefigurement” of the New Testament in regard to the Eucharist?

Your are forgetting what Jesus stated on the Cross; “It is finished”. The painting of** lambs **blood on the door post, fulfilled in Jesus Christ corpus hanging on the wood post of his cross, remember they used a hyssop branch to paint the lambs blood on the door post, the same hyssop branch used to give Jesus the Lamb of God who not only passes us over death into eternal life, but also who takes away the sin of the world, when he consumed the wine from a hyssop branch, as Jesus blood poured down the door post outside the gate walls of the city of Jerusalem (house of God) on his cross.

There is a huge scene on calvary that is more than meets the eye on the page.

According to the Law, when ever the sacrifice for the atonement of sins, not the passover lamb, was left over, it was to be contained in the holy of holies in the tabernacle with a fire lit 24 hours a day. If you look at the tabernacle where the Sacred Host is placed you better find a red candle with (fire) it lit 24 hours a day. If you do not see your tabernacle that includes the Eucharist with a red candle lit (fire), you better call your Bishop right away, this is an ordinance set by God, not man, and let your pastor know, why isn’t there a red candle lit over the tabernacle that possess the Eucharist. There are curses that follow if this fulfilled law in Jesus Christ is not discerned.

I pray you let this thread know that a red candle lit rests over or nearby the tabernacle which contains the Host. If it does not contain the left over sacrifice (Eucharist) for the atonement of sins, the fire can be extinguished. Please consider the difference.

 

[SingleMomMonica]

1. Well it would be pretty odd for Jews to be literally drinking lamb’s blood as it is not hidden in the species of wine like Jesus’s blood is. I don’t think a prefigurement furthermore needs to be an exact representation although the passover pretty much mimics the eucharist in the NT.
2. We do eat the entire lamb as the eucharistic contains the body, blood, soul and divinity of Christ.

Many primitive cultures drank the blood of animals and some even drank the blood of other people. So it wouldn’t be much of a stretch for the Jews to have been required to do it. But they weren’t.

The smaller families were to join with other families in their homes to eat the entire Lamb - we Catholics do not eat all of the consecrated Hosts with each Mass, there is always some kept over.

 

[SingleMomMonica]

Your are forgetting what Jesus stated on the Cross; “It is finished”. The painting of** lambs **blood on the door post, fulfilled in Jesus Christ corpus hanging on the wood post of his cross, remember they used a hyssop branch to paint the lambs blood on the door post, the same hyssop branch used to give Jesus the Lamb of God who not only passes us over death into eternal life, but also who takes away the sin of the world, when he consumed the wine from a hyssop branch, as Jesus blood poured down the door post outside the gate walls of the city of Jerusalem (house of God) on his cross.

There is a huge scene on calvary that is more than meets the eye on the page.

According to the Law, when ever the sacrifice for the atonement of sins, not the passover lamb, was left over, it was to be contained in the holy of holies in the tabernacle with a fire lit 24 hours a day. If you look at the tabernacle where the Sacred Host is placed you better find a red candle with (fire) it lit 24 hours a day. If you do not see your tabernacle that includes the Eucharist with a red candle lit (fire), you better call your Bishop right away, this is an ordinance set by God, not man, and let your pastor know, why isn’t there a red candle lit over the tabernacle that possess the Eucharist. There are curses that follow if this fulfilled law in Jesus Christ is not discerned.

I pray you let this thread know that a red candle lit rests over or nearby the tabernacle which contains the Host. If it does not contain the left over sacrifice (Eucharist) for the atonement of sins, the fire can be extinguished. Please consider the difference.

So the celebration of the Eucharist was not prefigured by the Passover, but was prefigured by another OT Passage altogether.

 

[SingleMomMonica]

Good questions . . .hopefully I have good answers, even though they are off the top of my head and certainly not doctrine, per se.

I’m going to venture a guess here and say that since they had to paint the doors to their house, maybe their house was itself a prefigurement of the NT understandiong of our body as the Temple of the Holy Spirit? Therefore, in the New Covenant, the blood is “painting the doors” of our temple. The benefits of the Eucharist are similar, if you think about it. “He who does not eat my flesh and drink my blood has no life in him.”

So maybe in that sense as we “paint the doors of our temple” with Christ’s own blood, the “angel of death” passes over us.

I think I’d go with the type being the lesser-than of the fulfillment on this one. What I mean is that Jesus said “I will be with you always, even unto the end of the age.” But the Passover Lamb was just temporal. We could ask the same thing about daily Mass or even weekly Mass, and say it should only be once a year on Holy Thursday, but since the fulfillment is greater than the type, it applies in a greater way. (again, I’m no theologian or anything—so you may want to float this to the Ask an Apologist thread).

I would think it doesn’t, any more than the fact of King David never walking on water or dying on a cross negates the Passion.

I hope that helps . . .

Basically, our mouths are “the Doors” on which the Blood needs to be painted/sprinkled. Makes sense to me.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

So the celebration of the Eucharist was not prefigured by the Passover, but was prefigured by another OT Passage altogether.

The Last Supper included fulfilled the Sedar meal (Passover) Mazooth, Atonement of sins sacrifice, Hebrew Todah sacrifice and much more… we have not even touched on the prophetic Psalms from the lil, and great Hallel Psalms yet. Recall Jesus singing on the cross “My God, My God” which is the fulfillment Psalm 22 (read it for yourself).

To answer your question Yes the institution of the Eucharist not only was prefigured from the OT passover (Sedar meal) The Last Supper fulfilled it. There are 4 cups during the passover meal, Jesus drinks the fourth and final Cup of blessing on the cross, after this Jesus states “It is Finished”. Jesus just completed the Sedar Meal (passover from death into eternal life). To conclude we have only touched a tip of the iceburg here of all what Jesus did on calvary and at the Last Supper.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

Basically, our mouths are “the Doors” on which the Blood needs to be painted/sprinkled. Makes sense to me.

Hey I like that analogy, what’s more our mouths are the tomb from the rock of our teeth that houses the Word of God made flesh. Wait a minute? I think a great Saint said this?

 

[Texas_Roofer]

1. During the original Passover and all subsequent Passovers before Jesus establised the Church - the Jews were required to paint the door posts with the Blood of the Lamb - yet we drink it but do not paint the door posts. I know we drink it because God told us to in John 6, but why did God have the Jews back then paint the door posts with it, since He knew He was going to have Christians drink the blood in the future?

The blood saved the eldest child, who could be an infant. Drinking blood would mean the laws would have to have been different

1. During the original Passover and all subsequent Passovers before Jesus established the Church - it was a requirement that the Jews eat the Entire Lamb and leave nothing left over to the next day - yet during Mass, not all of the Consecrated Hosts are eaten, but some are left over in the Tabernacle to be used at a later date and there is always at least 1 left over at all times…why was it a requirement back then to consume the Entire Lamb, if it was not to be a requirement now?

One is in the Tabernacle and the other is not, one is by priests and one is not

Do these two substantial differences negate the Old Testament “Prefigurement” of the New Testament in regard to the Eucharist?

Not really, there is simply more to it.

 

[Convert66]

Gabriel,

To conclude we have only touched a tip of the iceburg here of all what Jesus did on calvary and at the Last Supper.

Please continue. I am fascinated. Any books to recommend about this? I heard that Mike Aquilina wrote a book touching on this subject, but I don’t recall the name or if it was even him.

All my best . . .

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

Gabriel,

Please continue. I am fascinated. Any books to recommend about this? I heard that Mike Aquilina wrote a book touching on this subject, but I don’t recall the name or if it was even him.

All my best . . .

Continue?? Love too, but the topic is too great to cram on a post, any thing specifically you wish to address? The Eucharist can never be exhausted as far as explaining because it completes why man does not live on bread alone but by every word of God, which is the Eucharist, the Word of God made flesh is the bread from heaven of which we partake of his body, blood soul and divinity of Jesus Christ (2Peter 1:4).

From the Old Covenant included cereal (bread) offering, Libations of wine, Holocaust or Ollah, sin offering, peace offering, guilt offering, feasts included booths, pentecost or feast of weeks in addition to what I have listed in an earlier post, all have overtones of fulfillment in the Eucharistic sacrifice of Jesus Christ in forms of bread and wine.

What should be mentioned here is what God commanded to remain a perpetual law never ending. This Jesus did when he instituted the Eucharist. Many think that Jesus did away with the old testament law and ordinances, this is true to some extent, but what God commanded to remain perpetual since the old Covenant, is what the Mass fulfills today in the New Covenant of Jesus Christ. Jesus did not abolish the law and the prophets, Jesus fulfilled them. The Mass celebrates the victory of Jesus Kingdom of God on earth as it is in heaven in the New and everlasting covenant.

What I would like to introduce here is that, what makes the Mass so beautiful and eternally unique is that God’s presence is present to all his people, just as in the old covenant when God made himself present not on the 7th day, but on the 8th day prefigured when he would make his presence known to all his people on Sunday the first day of creation in the resurrection. Now I see I am going all over the board here, so I will pause, I am so blessed to be of the Roman Catholic faith that one never stop growing in from grace to grace.

Here are a few authors to seek about such topics; Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger “Called to Communion, Spirit of the Liturgy,Called to Communion”, Adrienne Von Speyer “The Holy Mass”, Rev. A.M. Roguet,O.P. The New Mass, he was an expert at Vatican II, Stephen M.Wylen (Jewish author) "The Jews in the Time of Jesus, I was going to mention the C.C.C, but if you get Scott Hahns books Lambs supper, Swear to God, Letter and Spirit includes the Catechism citations and scripture, plus Scott Hahns books are very easy read.

P.S Mike Aquilina books on the Mass of the Early Church Fathers gives witness and testimony of the Mass we have been celebrating since the first century, but he does not get into much detail of Eucharistic fulfillment as discussed here. Although these are a great and easy to read books.
Peace be with you