Sabbath or Sunday?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Malachi4U
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
M

Malachi4U

Guest
Should the Pope change the Lords day back to the Sabath (Friday dusk to Saturday dusk) like it used to be?

Why did the Pope change the Lords day to Sunday? Was this valid? Do nearly all protestants admit to the authority of the Pope since they worship the Lords day on Sunday?:hmmm:
 
40.png
Malachi4U:
Should the Pope change the Lords day back to the Sabath (Friday dusk to Saturday dusk) like it used to be?:
Try: catholic.com/library/sabbath_or_sunday.asp
 
greetings from austria! being raised seventh day adventist and making the long journey home to the Catholic church i struggled with this question myself.one observation that helped me: to believe that God really wants us to keep saturday as a day of rest and not sunday one would have to conclude that the whole church got it wrong from the start and had it wrong for 1,800 years. then around 1840 God spoke to a small group of Christians in the usa and tells that he really wants all Christians to keep saturday. as we say here in vienna, denk amoi (think about it)
 
Saturday is the Jewish Sabbath. Christians–that is–Catholics-- very early on started keeping the Lord’s Day on Sunday because it was the day of His resurrection.
 
40.png
JimG:
Saturday is the Jewish Sabbath. Christians–that is–Catholics-- very early on started keeping the Lord’s Day on Sunday because it was the day of His resurrection.
Actually in the first days of the Catholic Church (prior to St Paul’s conversion of the Gentiles), both days were celebrated. On Saturday the new Christians (Jewish) would go to the temple and celebrate with the Jewish community, then on Sunday, in memory of His resurrection would celebrate the Eucharist (of course they didn’t call it that). It wasn’t until after around 90 a.d. that the Christians were not welcome by the Jews (actually banned from) to participate in the Jewish tradition.
 
40.png
Malachi4U:
Should the Pope change the Lords day back to the Sabath (Friday dusk to Saturday dusk) like it used to be?

Why did the Pope change the Lords day to Sunday? Was this valid? Do nearly all protestants admit to the authority of the Pope since they worship the Lords day on Sunday?:hmmm:
The Pope did not change the day of worship from the Jewish Sabbath(Saturday) to the Day of the Lord (Sunday).

The New Testament tells us the the first Christians worshipped God on the Lord’s Day.

WE are not Jewish, the sabbath day was a part of the Law given to Jews only and not Christians.

Frankly the rhetoric you use here sounds a lot like, or identical to that used by Seventh-Day Adventists. They are a cult, not mainstream Christians at all. SDAs also officially hate the Catholic Church in an extreme way. They also call us the “Great Whore of Babylon” and “the Beast”. SDAs also say (like you just did) that “the beast” changed the Sabbath for Sunday, and “thought to change days and seasons”.

Please be careful of what you are saying, read your Catechism of the Catholic Church.
 
40.png
Malachi4U:
Should the Pope change the Lords day back to the Sabath (Friday dusk to Saturday dusk) like it used to be?

Why did the Pope change the Lords day to Sunday? Was this valid? Do nearly all protestants admit to the authority of the Pope since they worship the Lords day on Sunday?:hmmm:
You sound like an adventist or at least have come in contact with one.

Jesus came to perfect the Law and not abolish it. He did this by changing the old law (Sabbath) with the new one that represented the Lord’s Day (Sunday) of which He Ressurected on, and thus began a new creation for man. A new Hope.

So you see, the day one day of rest a week still remains yet now it is perfected.
 
The Jews were commanded to keep the Sabbath because that was the day they were freed from their slavery in Egypt:
“You shall remember that you were a servant in the land of Egypt, and the LORD your God brought you out thence with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm; therefore the LORD your God commanded you to keep the sabbath day.” (Deut 5:15)

Although the liberation of the Jews from their slavery in Egypt is important, it was only a foreshadow of something much more wonderful, namely, mankind’s liberation from slavery to sin and death brought about by the Passion, Death and Resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead. As St. Paul said, "Therefore let no one pass judgment on you [Christians] in questions of [Kosher] food and drink or with regard to a [Jewish] festival or a [Jewish] new moon or a [Jewish] sabbath. These are only a shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ. (Col 2:16-17)

St. Ignatius of Antioch, writing about A.D. 107, put it this way:
"We have seen how former adherents of the ancient [Jewish] customs have since attained to a new hope; so that they have given up keeping the Sabbath, and now [as Christians] order their lives by the Lord’s Day [Sunday] instead, the Day when life first dawned for us, thanks to Him [Jesus Christ] and His death. (Ignatius of Antioch, To the Magnesians, chap. 9)
 
Hi,

Just a couple of things I want to mention. We are Jews, we who are being saved, grafted in. Yes the law does apply to the Jews and that means us. The laws stay in place until they are no longer required.Jesus came to fulfill them.

I want to address some of the laws but in a very brief way. Jesus fulfilled them, means he topped them up to a full measure.

Originally they were laws of limitation, never laws of justice. God has always wanted us to be merciful. Take the eye for an eye. This is a law of limitation. If you lost an eye you were by God’s law not allow to kill the perperator. God’s law limited you to taking the eye, but He wanted you to forgive them. Jesus came and fulfilled the law. Now you are not even allowed to become angry, much less take the eye. We are now in the age of the spirit, passing from the age of the law of the flesh. We are hopeless to meet the fullment of the new law, we couldnt even meet the easy ones of an eye for an eye: without the Holy Spirit. This is the age of the Spirit and without the Spirit we have no strength. By My Spirit. The old testament is just as relevant today. Jesus said so. blessed are they that have the old and the new.

Divorce. The fulfillment. No divorce, the law has not been changed just made more difficult, just topped up to where it was always meant to be when the Holy Spirit was poured out on the earth. How blessed we are for the Holy Spirit in our lives. Please make use of Him, as He is the only way we can obey God.And obeying God is the only way we can thank Him.

Christ be with you

Walk in love,

edwinG http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon7.gif
 
the pope did not change the observance of the Lord’s day from Saturday to Sunday (words that were not used by Jews, being of Roman origin), Jesus did when he rose from the dead on Sunday, the first day of the week in fulfillment of the old covenant.
 
Deuterotomy 5:12-14 states, "12 “'Observe the sabbath day, to keep it holy, as the LORD your God commanded you. 13 Six days you shall labor, and do all your work; 14 but the seventh day is a sabbath to the LORD…”

Actually, the Catholic Church keeps the seventh day as the Sabbath as directed. I believe in the encyclical called *Sancrosanctum Concillium *(though I need to verify the name) in paragraph 106 explains this. Sorry, I can’t remember who the Pope was and when this was, I’ll see if I can find it later.I’ll post it if I can find it again.

Anyway, it explains that we do keep the seventh day as the Sabbath as it says in Deuterotomy, we just count from the day of the resurrection (Sunday). The first six days after the resurrection are Mon-Sat, and the seventh day (Sunday) is considered the sabbath now. So we are keeping with the commandment.
MBS1
 
Thanks for all your replies!

Some of you were close, I was watching the 3ABN (3 Angels Broadcasting Network) when I saw a seminar by Leo Schreven with All power Seminars at allpowerseminar.com/.



He stated the Pope changed the Saboth to Sunday and offered $1,000 U.S. to anyone who could show him a verse in the Bible that showed Sunday as the day God intended for us to rest and worship Him. I want the cash but no one here is helping me get it! He also says it was Constitine (sp?) or a Pope during this time that changed it. True Christians allways worshiped on the Saboth and still do. His words not mine.

Please help me and give a single Bible verse that proves that Sunday is the Lords day. Don’t just say Jesus rose on Sunday, thats not proof since nowhere does Jesus or the apostles tell us to change the Saboth to Sunday. That’s no better then the JW’s with their birthday ‘worship’ issue. Also the early Christians did have services on the Saboth and that changed years later. If the Pope did’nt change the Saboth to Sunday (or at least the Lords day) then who did? Proof?

God said to Keep Holy the Saboth day. As I recall that is the Saboth? Who changed it? Does this mean the 10 commandments are null and void? Can I choose another day like Friday or Thursday to be the Lords day since He was put to death on one of them?

I need help to find these facts not just insults. Please help me. Some of you have tried to give (name removed by moderator)ut but no one has given any proof I can use yet.

Thanks for your help.
 
We as Christians, from the earliest days of the church have always held Sunday, the day of resurrection as a holy day and have chosen it as our particular day of worship, setting ourselves apart from the Jews who remain under the Law and worship on the Sabbath, the seventh day of the week. Our Lord’s resurrection might be considered enough of a reason to change the day on which we meet together to worship God, but it turns out, like all things revealed to us by God, that this day is prefigured in the Old Testament, not as one might think, as the first day of the week, but rather as the eighth day, a new and eternal day where we leave the endless repetitive cycle of seven days and enter into eternity.

Genesis 1:33 - 2:3 states that God had completed his creation in six days and then rested on the seventh. It is readily apparent, however, that God has never stopped creating since each new person who is conceived is a new creation. We did not exist as disembodied souls prior to the beginnings of our life in the womb. We also know that God is spirit and that He is omnipotent and cannot become tired from the work of creation. Tiredness is something of the flesh, not of spirit, so here we begin to understand that the seventh day of rest is something significant for God incarnate, since only flesh needs rest. Like so many other things that are prefigured in the Old Testament we must understand that there is a deeper meaning to the seven days of the Genesis account. They are a type of something in the future, or indeed something outside of our understanding of time entirely.

We have already seen how the Sabbath, the day of rest, is of significance to the God-man, Jesus Chist. We know that through the whole of His incarnation, that is, His conception, His birth, His life of teaching and example culminating in His death and resurrection, Jesus fulfilled all of the Law and the Prophets. So how did He fulfill the Sabbath? It was certainly not through the keeping of the Sabbath on a week to week basis since Jesus continued to work on the Sabbath, healing people and teaching in the synagogues and the temple.
Jesus was crucified on the “sixth day”, Friday, He lay in the tomb for the whole of the “seventh day”, the Sabbath, then He rose again on the “eighth day”, the incorrupt, eternal, and unending day, the day without night following. Thus did Christ fulfill the Sabbath, when His flesh, through death, ceased to do work and so He did rest, having finished all His works of creation and salvation.

It should be noted that the eighth day has particular significance throughout the Old Testament. Male boys were always circumcised on the eighth day after their birth, regardless of whether this broke the Sabbath. We are no longer required to be circumcised, rather we receive circumcision of the heart through entry into the eternal eighth day of the resurrection
The book of Leviticus has many references to the eighth day, regarding circumcision, sanctification of the altar (seven days of preparation, then its use from the eighth day and onwards). The day on which an offering is brought to the temple after a period on uncleanliness is again, on the eighth day after whatever was causing their uncleanliness had ceased.

In the Septuagint Old Testament, it does not call the first day of creation “first”, but “one”, “one day”, because the first day is a prefiguring of that Sabbath which is the preeminent one of all Sabbaths. It is an image and prefiguring of the day of Resurrection, which is the beginning of the “eighth day”, the incorrupt, eternal and unending day. Therefore Genesis names the first day “one day”, because it is an image of eternity. The psalmist also refers to the “eighth day” in the superscriptions of psalms 6 an 12, a day which is outside of our seven day cycle of time.

/continued next post…
 
On the Saturday before Pascha (Easter) we read the following in the church service: “Moses the Great prefigured this present day mystically, saying, ‘And God blessed the seventh day’. For this is the blessed Sabbath, this is the day of rest, on which the Only-begotten Son of God rested from all His works. Suffering death for the economy of salvation, He kept the Sabbath in the flesh, and returning again… through the Resurrection, He has granted to us eternal life, for He alone is good and the lover of man”. (Matins of Great Saturday)

The seventh day is the bridge that connects this corruptible world of the six-day genesis of all things to the incorruptible and eternal world of the eighth day, the day without end, the eternal day. It is the day on which God “rested from all His works” in death for the economy of salvation. It is day of the Great Sabbath, the sanctified one, on which the Lord finished all His works, those of creation and those of salvation. And having completed His union with creation, even unto death, on the Cross He uttered those last words: “It is finished”, and He abode in the grave, “in the flesh, keeping the Sabbath”. This is the blessed Sabbath that brought forth all of creation from corruptibility to incorruptibility and, “through the Resurrection, granted to us eternal life”.
“And the heavens and the earth were finished, and the whole world of them. And God finished on the sixth day His works which He made. And God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He ceased from all his works, which God began to do”. (Gen. 2:1-3)

Sunday is the day of the sun, the source of life, the first day of the week, and symbolically the first day of creation. It is also the eighth day, the day of the new creation, the day of resurrection, which initiated all creation to eternal life. The importance of this day to Christians was so great that they changed the name of the day to Kyriaki (the Lord’s day). The Christians in Russia named this day the Russian word for “Resurrection”. In fact it seems that only in the West have the days of the week retained their pagan origins, being named after the Sun and the planets which were once thought by the pagans to be gods.
Ezekiel 43:27-44:4 “And when they have completed these days, then from the eighth day onward the priests shall offer upon the altar your burnt offerings and your peace offerings; and I will accept you, says the Lord God.”

We do not transgress the Fourth Commandment when we observe Sunday, the eighth day, the day which prefigures the “new creation,” since formerly, before the Incarnation, the primordial perfection of the creation of the world was commemorated by the Sabbath day of rest. By observing Sunday, we confess the new creation in Jesus Christ, which is of greater import and more real than the existing creation which yet bears the wounds of sin.

John (who has done nothing more than cobble together quotes from the Church Fathers)
 
You would do well to read the dialogue between Justin Martyr (110-165AD) and Trypho the Jew) to see that from the very beginning of the church, Christians no longer observed the Sabbath as did the Jews.
chapter 10:
Is there any other matter, my friends, in which we are blamed, than this, that we live not after the law, and are not circumcised in the flesh as your forefathers were, and do not observe sabbaths as you do?
chapter 18:
For we too would observe the fleshly circumcision, and the Sabbaths, and in short all the feasts, if we did not know for what reason they were enjoined you,-namely, on account of your transgressions and the hardness of your hearts. For if we patiently endure all things contrived against us by wicked men and demons, so that even amid cruelties unutterable, death and torments, we pray for mercy to those who inflict such things upon us, and do not wish to give the least retort to any one, even as the new Lawgiver commanded us: how is it, Trypho, that we would not observe those rites which do not harm us,-I speak of fleshly circumcision, and Sabbaths, and feasts?
chapter 23:
For if there was no need of circumcision before Abraham, or of the observance of Sabbaths, of feasts and sacrifices, before Moses; no more need is there of them now, after that, according to the will of God, Jesus Christ the Son of God has been born without sin, of a virgin sprung from the stock of Abraham. For when Abraham himself was in uncircumcision, he was justified and blessed by reason of the faith which he reposed in God, as the Scripture tells.
chapter 27:
And Trypho said, “Why do you select and quote whatever you wish from the prophetic writings, but do not refer to those which expressly command the Sabbath to be observed? For Isaiah thus speaks: `If thou shalt turn away thy foot from the Sabbaths, so as not to do thy pleasure on the holy day, and shalt call the Sabbaths the holy delights of thy God; if thou shalt not lift thy foot to work, and shalt not speak a word from thine own mouth; then thou shalt trust in the Lord, and He shall cause thee to go up to the good things of the land; and He shall feed thee with the inheritance of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it.’”

And I replied, “I have passed them by, my friends, not because such prophecies were contrary to me, but because you have understood, and do understand, that although God commands you by all the prophets to do the same things which He also commanded by Moses, it was on account of the hardness of your hearts, and your ingratitude towards Him, that He continually proclaims them, in order that, even in this way, if you repented, you might please Him, and neither sacrifice your children to demons, nor be partakers with thieves, nor lovers of gifts, nor hunters after revenge, nor fail in doing judgment for orphans, nor be inattentive to the justice due to the widow nor have your hands full of blood.”
chapter 41:
The command of circumcision, again, bidding [them] always circumcise the children on the eighth day, was a type of the true circumcision, by which we are circumcised from deceit and iniquity through Him who rose from the dead on the first day after the Sabbath, [namely through] our Lord Jesus Christ. For the first day after the Sabbath, remaining the first of all the days, is called, however, the eighth, according to the number of all the days of the cycle, and [yet] remains the first.
It is well worth reading the whole lot
newadvent.org/fathers/0128.htm
 
The question is pointless. All that matters is that we set aside every seventh day. The actual construction of the calendar–whether Jan 1, 2005 falls on a Saturday or a Wednesday–is purely arbitrary. If there were any absolute meaning to sabbath, then we would have to be celebrating it on the days that are a multiple of seven days from the ancient jewish sabbath.

That hasn’t been done for a long time. In the sixteenth century we went from the Julian calendar to the Gregorian calendar. Consequently ten calendar days were “skipped” in the conversion. That means that neither the modern saturday nor the modern sunday** falls on the ancient “seventh day”** as measured from when God issued the command.

And, sorry, that also means that Sundays–Easter included–are no longer a multiple of seven days removed from the day of the Resurrection.
 
40.png
JimG:
Saturday is the Jewish Sabbath. Christians–that is–Catholics-- very early on started keeping the Lord’s Day on Sunday because it was the day of His resurrection.
That’s the correct answer.🙂

Theodora
 
Racer X:
That hasn’t been done for a long time. In the sixteenth century we went from the Julian calendar to the Gregorian calendar. Consequently ten calendar days were “skipped” in the conversion. That means that neither the modern saturday nor the modern sunday** falls on the ancient “seventh day”** as measured from when God issued the command.
Not correct. Ten calendar days were skipped (as in the date) but the day of the week did not change. You also ignore the fact that most of the Orthodox church remain on the Julian calendar.

John.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top