Sabbath or Sunday?

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Fascinating reading all of this - I’m not going to add anything useful.

I had to laugh. I was in an internet chat room the other day and mentioned that I was considering becoming Catholic (from another church). Someone picked up on this and spent the next half hour arguing with me about it.

Their reason I shouldn’t join the RCC? That you worship on Sundays. Now, that isn’t a stumbling block for me at all - though proving the practice from scripture as he wanted is hard. The early church had already made the change but Ignatius of Antioch et al weren’t good enough sources for him.

But it got me thinking about sola scriptura (again) which I think the church I’ve been a part of would believe in. Are we truly sola scriptura if we insist on Sunday or are we following the traditions of the church, which we claim (falsely) can’t be used in this way?

Blessings

Asteroid
 
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boppysbud:
The Pope did not change the day of worship from the Jewish Sabbath(Saturday) to the Day of the Lord (Sunday).

The New Testament tells us the the first Christians worshipped God on the Lord’s Day.

WE are not Jewish, the sabbath day was a part of the Law given to Jews only and not Christians.

Frankly the rhetoric you use here sounds a lot like, or identical to that used by Seventh-Day Adventists. They are a cult, not mainstream Christians at all. SDAs also officially hate the Catholic Church in an extreme way. They also call us the “Great Whore of Babylon” and “the Beast”. SDAs also say (like you just did) that “the beast” changed the Sabbath for Sunday, and “thought to change days and seasons”.

Please be careful of what you are saying, read your Catechism of the Catholic Church.
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You still have to somehow justify the change. The sabbath commandment is one of the “Ten Commandments”. When they were given by Moses it was the “seventh day”. You believe the other 9 don’t you? So, how do you logically justify it? You either agree that it’s the seventh day which is saturday and it should be obeyed like the other 9 commandments or you throw all 10 out as not binding on Christians. See the logic here?

I could use the logic that God institued the sabbath at creation. On the “seventh day He rested and blessed it”. And that you need to be careful about what He has commanded. Please be careful what you say…

The “cult” idea is over-used. It has been mis-applied time and time again. Don’t use it.
 
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prodromos:
Not correct. Ten calendar days were skipped (as in the date) but the day of the week did not change. You also ignore the fact that most of the Orthodox church remain on the Julian calendar.

John.
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That’s right of course. Thank you.
 
The Catholic Church worships on the Sabbath - the seventh day. However, like the early Christians, that day is counted from the time Jesus was resurrected. If you count Sunday as the first day of the week, in seven days you have - Sunday! In fact the following encyclical reads:

Thus, “by a tradition handed down from the Apostles, which took its origin from the very day of Christ’s resurrection, the Church celebrates the paschal mystery every seventh day, which day is appropriately called the Lord’s Day or Sunday. For on this day, Christ’s faithful are bound to come together into one place. They should listen to the word of God, and take part in the Eucharist, thus calling to mind the passion, resurrection and glory of the Lord Jesus, and giving thanks to God who has begotten them anew ‘through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead…into a living hope’ (1 Pet 1:3). The Lord’s Day is the original feast day, and it should be proposed to the faithful and taught to them so that it may become in fact a day of joy and of freedom from work” (Vatican II, *Sacrosanctum Concilium, *106).

Even from scripture we see this from the beginning:

1 Corinth 10:16 - “The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not a participation in the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ?”

-and when did they break this bread?

Acts 20:7 “On the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul talked with them, intending to depart on the morrow; and he prolonged his speech until midnight.”

1 Corinthians 16:2 “On the first day of every week, each of you is to put something aside and store it up, as he may prosper, so that contributions need not be made when I come.” (Ah - the collection plate starts!!)

Rev 1:10 “I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s day, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet.”

Not only is Sunday worship biblical, but to deny this is also to say that all the Church Fathers from the early days of the Church who wrote about Sunday worship, and all other Christians (except Adventists, of course) have been wrong from the time of Christ. You should look up the early church and see what they taught - from the beginning.

I am always curious about one thing - which I’d like an Adventist to answer. Of all the things the reformers felt were wrong with the Catholic Church, and of all the changes that have been made in Protestantism through all the years, how do you explain that Sunday worship was never questioned? I mean, there are arguments at length about the need for baptism, how we are saved, whether Christ is truly present in the bread and wine, who are the “true” Christians, etc., but nary anything about Sunday worship. Do you really think that if something was truly from Rome (and the Pope), it would not have been argued against until the 1840’s? Doesn’t sound like the Protestants I interact with. I guess it just took the Adventists to get it right - but how do you know you are right? After all, all the other Protestant churches are Sola Scriptura as well, and still worship on Sunday. Oh yes, that’s right, the Bible is self explaining, isn’t it.

God Bless All,
MBS1
 
Rev 1:10 is solid, I did a study of that one a while ago, along with the whole “Wednesday crucifixion” idea, the three primary interpretations are

(1) “Lord’s Day” = Sunday (the vast majority of commentaries and the entire patristic witness supports this)

(2) “Lord’s Day” = Easter-Sunday (a few scholars defend this)

(3) “Lord’s Day” = the “Day of the Lord” in judgment (e.g. 1 Thess 5:2; the SdA scholar Sam Bacchiocchi argues this along with a few others)

I quote evangelical commentators in support of (1) here

Phil P
 
Well, if you take the seven days in the Genesis creation story literally, then, in order to be sure that you are always keeping each 7th day holy, you would have to be sure that we have preserved that orignal Genesis calendar faithfully from the very FIRST seventh day.

Are we sure that that the Saturday in our current calendar corresponds exactly to a certain number of cycles of 7, from the very beginning? I really doubt that could be proved.

And how does the international date line fit into this scheme, where it is Saturday on one side and Sunday on the other side?
 
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Des:
You sound like an adventist or at least have come in contact with one.
Jesus came to perfect the Law and not abolish it. He did this by changing the old law (Sabbath) with the new one that represented the Lord’s Day (Sunday) of which He Ressurected on, and thus began a new creation for man. A new Hope.
So you see, the day one day of rest a week still remains yet now it is perfected.
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Hi Des,
Jesus came to fulfill the law and yes He did make it perfect but ‘fulfill" has a very distinct meaning. He did not change any law.
The law handed down was not a law of justice but a law of mercy. It is still needed here in Thailand where if someone owes you money or has upset you , you just put a bounty on his head and the person’s name is added to the list and any of a large number of gunman can kill you and claim the bounty.
So the law ie " A tooth for a tooth" was a law of limitations, it limited the punishment to "what was done, not an excess of what was done’ Can you see how the law was in mercy, not in justice.God has always wanted us to be merciful, always merciful as He is.
Say in marriage. God allowed Jews to divorce but it was a concession made by God. Note God also didn’t want the Jews to have Kings, as this was a rejection of Him but in His love He allowed it to please the people.
Now Jesus fullfilled the law. Where once you were allowed to take vegence to the amount only of what was taken , ie limited, Jesus limited it even more, now you aren’t even allowed to be angry. Jesus has filled up the limitation. Now we are told we must forgive. We can not do this in the flesh. We could not even live up to the law of mercy, an eye for an eye, in the flesh. Now that Jesus has topped it up we have no hope of doing this in the flesh, but in God’s Holy Spirit we have the strength to forgive. See Stephen.
In marriage, Jesus has filled up the law, no divorce unless fornication. The law still stands only more so as He has filled it up and now one has to have spiritual strength to obey.
Saturday and Sunday I know, as I have had this lesson from Jesus. It is too long a story,but Jesus is Lord of Saturday and it is a day for doing good, not a day devoted to working. If someone wants the full story, I will gladly post it to them or if many want it I will post it here.
Christ be with you
walk in lovehttp://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon7.gif
edwinG
 
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Malachi4U:
Thanks, more good points.
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Malachi, I thought I would start out by quoting your namesake

Malachi 1:11
My name will be great among the nations, from the rising to the setting of the sun* In every place incense and pure offerings will be brought to my name, ** in otherwords daily mass 👍 ***] because my name will be great among the nations," says the LORD Almighty.

If one is a Catholic, they can worship and receive daily, the ONE who spoke and all things came into existence. Not just on the Sabbath but every single day of the week.!

Colossians 2:16
Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.

Mark 2:27
Then he said to them, "The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.

Mark 2:28
So the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath."

Acts 20:7
On the first day of the week Sunday] we came together to break bread.in otherwords to celebrate the Eucharist] Paul spoke to the people and, because he intended to leave the next day, kept on talking until midnight. Now THAT’S what I call a homily!!! :bowdown2:

1 Corinthians 16:2
On the first day of every week, in otherwords **every **Sunday] each one of you should set aside a sum of money in keeping with his income, saving it up, so that when I come no collections will have to be made.

Notice Paul came*** every Sunday*** to celebrate the Eucharist and pass the basket. :yup: They met not just now and then as is the habit of many but every single Sunday… And there was ***NO ***missing mass. This tells us what our practice should be today, and it is no coincidence nor should it be a surprise, that the Catholic Church says we are to participate in mass every single Sunday…

When you combine the Sabbath with the Lord’s day {Sunday], we have the WEEKEND!!! Yeah :dancing:
 
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asteroid:
Fascinating reading all of this - I’m not going to add anything useful.

I had to laugh. I was in an internet chat room the other day and mentioned that I was considering becoming Catholic (from another church). Someone picked up on this and spent the next half hour arguing with me about it.

Their reason I shouldn’t join the RCC? That you worship on Sundays. Now, that isn’t a stumbling block for me at all - though proving the practice from scripture as he wanted is hard. The early church had already made the change but Ignatius of Antioch et al weren’t good enough sources for him.

But it got me thinking about sola scriptura (again) which I think the church I’ve been a part of would believe in. Are we truly sola scriptura if we insist on Sunday or are we following the traditions of the church, which we claim (falsely) can’t be used in this way?

Blessings

Asteroid
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🙂 Hey Asteroid,

Not to worry. Worshiping on Sunday IS the Christian way. And it IS from scripture

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=240967#post240967
 
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