Sacrament Alone?

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Do you feel like Catholics place too much emphasis on the Sacraments and not the virtues they should nourish (such as faith, charity, understanding, Scripture devotion, fellowship, kindness, etc.)? Do we seem to practice a Sacrament Alone doctrine?
 
rcwitness said:
Do you feel like Catholics place too much emphasis on the Sacraments and not the virtues they should nourish (such as faith, charity, understanding, Scripture devotion, fellowship, kindness, etc.)? Do we seem to practice a Sacrament Alone doctrine?
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Well they go hand in hand. The Sacraments give you grace to practice faith and virtue. Without faith or virtue, you lack the graces needed to receive the Sacraments worthily.
 
Convert_in_99 said:
Well they go hand in hand. The Sacraments give you grace to practice faith and virtue. Without faith or virtue, you lack the graces needed to receive the Sacraments worthily.
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But Sacraments don’t automatically produce virtue. They aren’t like magic. Neither are all Catholics virtuous and Christians, without valid Eucharist, Virtue-less.
 
rcwitness said:
Do you feel like Catholics place too much emphasis on the Sacraments and not the virtues they should nourish (such as faith, charity, understanding, Scripture devotion, fellowship, kindness, etc.)? Do we seem to practice a Sacrament Alone doctrine?
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Not the impression I have at all.

Jon
 
rcwitness said:
Do you feel like Catholics place too much emphasis on the Sacraments and not the virtues they should nourish (such as faith, charity, understanding, Scripture devotion, fellowship, kindness, etc.)? Do we seem to practice a Sacrament Alone doctrine?
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My personal thoughts.
“Sacrament Alone”-- no.
But I do know a large number of Catholics which seem to lack a faith/understanding themselves. Obviously I don’t know them perfectly, but this has been my observation after knowing them very well for many years.
 
rcwitness said:
Do you feel like Catholics place too much emphasis on the Sacraments and not the virtues they should nourish (such as faith, charity, understanding, Scripture devotion, fellowship, kindness, etc.)?
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Depends which Catholics.
 
jane_doe said:
My personal thoughts.
“Sacrament Alone”-- no.
But I do know a large number of Catholics which seem to lack a faith/understanding themselves.
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Are they devout to Mass and Reconciliation?
 
rcwitness said:
Well, the “some yes” would seem to practice a Sacrament Alone belief, if they have strong devotion to Sacraments yet weak in the faith/virtue department, no?
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I’ve seen many different Catholics over the years. Two of the many types, are–
  1. Some Catholics who go to Mass occasionally, have their kid baptized, Catholic decorations in the house, etc. But when asked they don’t know why they appear to have poor knowledge of Catholicism and little active individual faith. They are more just going through the cultural motions.
  2. Some Catholics who go to Mass regularly and involved in many other Church activities. But again, when asked about knowledge of the faith or their individual testimony they don’t really seem to know. Again, more going through the motions but little deeper.
 
Wannano said:
Now that changes it so I can answer… yes.
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Maybe my point is that Catholics jump on this “crusade” against “Sola Fide” when we should be more concerned about the Sacrament Alone Catholics in our own Communion. It’s the equivalent concept that we like to debate to no end. But actually combating it in our own house takes holiness, love, patience, boldness, brotherly affection, fellowship, etc.
 
rcwitness said:
Maybe my point is that Catholics jump on this “crusade” against “Sola Fide” when we should be more concerned about the Sacrament Alone Catholics in our own Communion. It’s the equivalent concept that we like to debate to no end. But actually combating it in our own house takes holiness, love, patience, boldness, brotherly affection, fellowship, etc.
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Sorry, I misunderstood the context of your op.
 
rcwitness said:
But Sacraments don’t automatically produce virtue. They aren’t like magic. Neither are all Catholics virtuous and Christians, without valid Eucharist, Virtue-less.
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No, but they produce grace…which helps us to develop virtues. There’s not much in Catholicism that stands alone. It all works in concert. IF something were “optional” it would be labeled as such. Sacraments are not optional.
We need them. Even still, the optional things are highly beneficial, such as various devotions in our personal prayer lives.

One Sacrament folds neatly into another if we study them carefully.
 
rcwitness said:
Do you feel like Catholics place too much emphasis on the Sacraments and not the virtues they should nourish (such as faith, charity, understanding, Scripture devotion, fellowship, kindness, etc.)? Do we seem to practice a Sacrament Alone doctrine?
Click to expand...
I wouldn’t say there’s too much emphasis on the sacraments, I’d say there was proper emphasis. But, there does seem to be a lack of emphasis on those other virtues. The proportion of the congregation (where I am) who engage with anything outside of Mass is woeful. I was also really surprised when I started attending Catholic services at the stampede out of the building before the Priest has even finished giving out communion. The fellowship after Mass is almost non existent.
 
jane_doe said:
I’ve seen many different Catholics over the years. Two of the many types, are–
  1. Some Catholics who go to Mass occasionally, have their kid baptized, Catholic decorations in the house, etc. But when asked they don’t know why they appear to have poor knowledge of Catholicism and little active individual faith. They are more just going through the cultural motions.
  2. Some Catholics who go to Mass regularly and involved in many other Church activities. But again, when asked about knowledge of the faith or their individual testimony they don’t really seem to know. Again, more going through the motions but little deeper.
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It’s seem harsh to label many of the Catholics you know as “just going through the motions” or “have poor knowledge of Catholicism”. It may be your perception they have little understanding of the their faith because you are so negative about Catholicism.

Just because we don’t practice our faith in the way you seem to think we should does not mean we are just going through the motions. It is not up to you to judge how much faith another has.
 
Kanade said:
I wouldn’t say there’s too much emphasis on the sacraments, I’d say there was proper emphasis. But, there does seem to be a lack of emphasis on those other virtues. The proportion of the congregation (where I am) who engage with anything outside of Mass is woeful. I was also really surprised when I started attending Catholic services at the stampede out of the building before the Priest has even finished giving out communion. The fellowship after Mass is almost non existent.
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This is sad. Is there any effort of the parish council or staff to try to build more participation in ministries outside of Mass?

As far as fellowship after Mass, I am one of those who do leave after Mass has concluded, the Mass not just communion. There are times I may chat with someone for a bit outside but I don’t go to coffee hour typically. I am sponsoring an RCIA catechumen this year so I may go with her to coffee hour as a way of checking in with her about questions or concerns she may have about the church.
 
rcwitness said:
Do you feel like Catholics place too much emphasis on the Sacraments and not the virtues they should nourish (such as faith, charity, understanding, Scripture devotion, fellowship, kindness, etc.)? Do we seem to practice a Sacrament Alone doctrine?
Click to expand...
I believe there are some poorly catechized Catholics who don’t understand what the Sacraments are for. They only know they’re supposed to go. In addition I think it is not our place to judge what the sacraments are doing for a person. We should not concern ourselves if others are going to reconciliation often enough or at all. We can’t know the heart of the person receiving communion every Sunday.

A few years ago I someone I knew went into a drug & alcohol treatment facility. He was able to make & receive calls so we talked every couple of days. He expressed to me he wanted to receive communion and wanted to know if I could help set it up. Since there were some incidents of mortal sin on his part prior to going into treatment I told him I would find a priest to come to him to hear his confession and give him communion. I got things set up with a priest who was familiar with the treatment facility and had ministered to folks there in the past. A few days later I asked my friend if he had been able to speak to the priest he lied and told me a priest wasn’t allowed to come in. When the man came out of treatment and was attending Mass again, receiving communion, I had my suspicions but it was not my place to judge him or make him to anything. I suggested one more time he go to reconciliation but if he did, it just wasn’t my place to be the reconciliation police.

So do we place too much emphasis on the Sacraments? All of us get graces to cooperate with God through the Sacrament of Holy Communion and Reconciliation. It’s what we do with those graces that matters. I don’t think one can regularly receive the Sacraments and not grow in virtue, but that growth is individual to each person.
 
Horton said:
This is sad. Is there any effort of the parish council or staff to try to build more participation in ministries outside of Mass?

As far as fellowship after Mass, I am one of those who do leave after Mass has concluded, the Mass not just communion. There are times I may chat with someone for a bit outside but I don’t go to coffee hour typically. I am sponsoring an RCIA catechumen this year so I may go with her to coffee hour as a way of checking in with her about questions or concerns she may have about the church.
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We have a very hardworking deacon who’s tried all sorts of things with very little success. There are a few small groups but they are very cliquey and slowly killing themselves off. I asked someone when the Bible study group was and she wouldn’t tell me! 🤷

The attendance at our advent and lent groups was embarrassing, people think that Sunday Mass attendance is all that’s required and learning about the faith ends at confirmation. It’s sad, for me it’s like being invited to a great feast and only having starters.

I think about a third of the congregation have left before the blessing. The priest has talked about it several times but it doesn’t seem to make a difference.
 
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