Sacrament Alone?

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jane_doe said:
Jane: “Why do you say the Rosary?”
Catholic described in post 52: “I don’t know”.

Jane: “Why are there statues in the church?”
Catholic described in post 52: “I don’t know”.

Jane: “Why do you go to confession?”
Catholic described in post 52: “I don’t know”.

Jane: “Is it a sin for you to be living with your boyfriend?”
Catholic described in post 52: “No, that’s old fashion- don’t be such a prude”.

Jane: “Why did you get on birth control?”
Catholic described in post 52: “Because I totally do not desire kids.”

These are all actual conversations I’ve had. Would you not also describe this person as not knowing that Catholic faith well?
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I generally skip “describing people” I don’t feel it’s my place since I don’t know their hearts and I do not know the work the Holy Spirit may be doing within them. And though it’s vague talking about this person feels gossipy.

Finding people who say things like you’ve noted above is quite believable and not in the least surprising. What I find completely beyond belief is that people who answer as you state are Catholics who, go to Mass weekly, go to confession, have deep conversations about faith, pray the rosary or any other form of prayer for that matter.
 
Horton said:
But any Catholic who’s been through confirmation knows what confession is and what the rosary is.
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jane_doe said:
You’re assuming that all Catholics have gone to confession and that they paid attention/remembered what was taught.

(Note: people not going to classes and/or not paying attention is not a problem unique to Catholicism or even religion, but effects every group of people in every setting)
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Any Catholic who goes through confirmation has been to confession.
 
jane_doe said:
You’re assuming that all Catholics have gone to confession and that they paid attention/remembered what was taught.
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Correcting myself here: I meant “You’re assuming that all Catholics have gone to confirmation and that they paid attention/remembered what was taught”
 
jane_doe said:
Correcting myself here: I meant “You’re assuming that all Catholics have gone to confirmation and that they paid attention/remembered what was taught”
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Frankly I don’t think someone has to be able to explain “why do you go to confession” and I think that the question itself can be interpreted differently. It can be “what does the church say about confession” or it can be “what motivates you personally to go to confession”. A person can answer either of those questions and not have an answer for the other.

The same with the rosary, which is not even required, it’s been explained as a devotion to Mary, I have also heard it described as a meditation on Christ. And in either case I see no need to be able to deliver a concise well crafted answer to those questions. I also find it rather ironic that we see an expectation for doctrinal explanation by lay members from someone whose church doesn’t even require a theologically educated clergy:shrug:.
 
zaffiroborant said:
I also find it rather ironic that we see an expectation for doctrinal explanation by lay members from someone whose church doesn’t even require a theologically educated clergy:shrug:.
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Why the barbs Zaffiroborant?
 
To be fair the person who says “I don’t know” may just not be very good about talking about their faith with others.
 
zaffiroborant said:
I generally skip “describing people” I don’t feel it’s my place since I don’t know their hearts and I do not know the work the Holy Spirit may be doing within them.
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Thank you for posting that. I think quite a few of us were bothered when a fellow poster got labeled as “arrogant, prideful and contemptuous” on this thread.
 
Peter_J said:
A pretty violent image, but okay. 😊 JK

I’m not sure I completely understand what you’re saying, but I’m pretty sure that what I said is right: the Sacrament of Reconciliation only avails the person if he/she repents. (I more-or-less recall a good quote on that, which I read many years ago, but it would take me too long to find it.)
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Any more answers to my questions in#42?
 
Wannano said:
Any more answers to my questions in#42?
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I’m kind of surprised that you haven’t received more. People around here are usually pretty big on giving answers.

For myself, I’d like to make sure I understand what you mean … or don’t mean. More precisely, you don’t mean that confessing your sins is the *meaning *of the word “repent” right? (A comparison that comes to mind: at some point growing up I probably heard my parents say that repenting meant saying “I’m sorry”, but presumably they were not saying that that is literally the meaning of the word.)
 
Peter_J said:
I’m kind of surprised that you haven’t received more. People around here are usually pretty big on giving answers.

For myself, I’d like to make sure I understand what you mean … or don’t mean. More precisely, you don’t mean that confessing your sins is the *meaning *of the word “repent” right? (A comparison that comes to mind: at some point growing up I probably heard my parents say that repenting meant saying “I’m sorry”, but presumably they were not saying that that is literally the meaning of the word.)
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I was not looking for the actual meaning of the word. I was reacting a bit to your post in # 41 where you stated a problem might be a C thinking he had repented by going to confession. I always had in mind that that is how Catholics repented of their sins . My question basically is if a Catholic has repented of his sin directly to God before confession to the priest, what value is there to confessing to the priest?
 
Wannano said:
I was not looking for the actual meaning of the word. I was reacting a bit to your post in # 41 where you stated a problem might be a C thinking he had repented by going to confession. I always had in mind that that is how Catholics repented of their sins . My question basically is if a Catholic has repented of his sin directly to God before confession to the priest, what value is there to confessing to the priest?
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I don’t remember exactly what I said, but I need to clarify: I’m not saying that the penitent has to repent before going to confession (as opposed to during).

What I’m saying is that confession without repentance is valueless.
 
Peter_J said:
I don’t remember exactly what I said, but I need to clarify: I’m not saying that the penitent has to repent before going to confession (as opposed to during).

What I’m saying is that confession without repentance is valueless.
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Ok, I understand. Thanks, I agree.
 
Peter_J said:
Thank you for posting that. I think quite a few of us were bothered when a fellow poster got labeled as “arrogant, prideful and contemptuous” on this thread.
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In that post I replied to Horton who said “it seems harsh to label”, my comment “arrogant, prideful and contemptuous” was on the action of labeling. Subsequently I addressed Jane explaining that I still found the sorting and boxing of Catholics she knew as prideful. Telling an individual what you perceive to be the meaning of their words is not labeling, it may be pugnacious, or argumentative, or belligerent, but it is not labeling.
 
zaffiroborant said:
In that post I replied to Horton who said “it seems harsh to label”, my comment “arrogant, prideful and contemptuous” was on the action of labeling. Subsequently I addressed Jane explaining that I still found the sorting and boxing of Catholics she knew as prideful. Telling an individual what you perceive to be the meaning of their words is not labeling, it may be pugnacious, or argumentative, or belligerent, but it is not labeling.
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👍
 
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