Sacrament of Confirmation Denied to My Son.

[Ridgerunner]

Ridgerunner, you could write a sitcom. Sorry that happened to you but I am glad you kept your sense of humor as most would have walked away.

Are human foibles something OTHER than a sitcom?

Thanks for your sympathy. One more story, and I’ll quit.

My Irish grandmother had a saying about “church people”, including, but not limited to, clergy and religious. She instructed me to treat them “civil but strange”. That was a wonderfully multifaceted statement. By that, among other things, she meant that one has a duty to treat them with respect, but that one should not, in effect, confuse one’s church relationship with personal relationship; should not invest a lot of emotion in what they might do or say, and should not base one’s relationship to the Church on personal relationships or encounters (good or bad) that one might have with one or more of them.

In my book, she was a smart lady.

 

[grandfather]

I proposed they test him, have him attend the parish HS retreat and that he would do his service project under the direction of the DRE. Didn’t work. I do like our Pastor but I suspect he didn’t want a fight with the DRE.

The “service project” requirement fad is something that always bothered me. It implies that one has to earn the right to the sacrament, to prove worthiness and commitment, by some outward show or demonstration, by jumping some silly hurdle. I am not sure, but this is probably theologically problematic.

In the Eastern Church infants receive baptism, Holy Eucharist, and chrismation/confirmation. For many year Roman Catholics were confirmed at a younger age than now after showing knowledge in the faith. Now the sacrament is presented as a merit badge to be earned by spending a few hours in a soup kitchen as if that proved anything anyway. What happened in recent years is the preparation instruction was watered down and meaningless. Many children stuck around long enough to be confirmed to please their parents and then when they were old enough they left the faith, having no real knowledge of it. The geniuses running the programs thought there was something wrong with the kids, not their programs. They decided 12 was too young. They needed another four or five years to be sure the kids were ready and worthy and committed to sticking around. My kids all went through the process of silly catechetics. They learned nothing from the programs and we had to make sure they learned the faith at home or lose them.

 

[jmcrae]

The “service project” requirement fad is something that always bothered me. It implies that one has to earn the right to the sacrament, to prove worthiness and commitment, by some outward show or demonstration, by jumping some silly hurdle. I am not sure, but this is probably theologically problematic.

Perhaps, although it also serves as a reminder that, now that you are Confirmed, there is an expectation of service in the Church. Confirmed Catholics should not be pew-warmers.

I am under the impression that the practice of requiring a service project is to introduce the mind-set of, “We are members now; not house guests, and those dishes are ours to wash, those poor at the gate are ours to feed,” etc. (Obviously, the concept is not getting through, though, if kids are still leaving the Church right after they get Confirmed, and treating it as a graduation day, instead of as a Sacrament of Initiation.)

 

[grandfather]

Perhaps, although it also serves as a reminder that, now that you are Confirmed, there is an expectation of service in the Church. Confirmed Catholics should not be pew-warmers.

I am under the impression that the practice of requiring a service project is to introduce the mind-set of, “We are members now; not house guests, and those dishes are ours to wash, those poor at the gate are ours to feed,” etc. (Obviously, the concept is not getting through, though, if kids are still leaving the Church right after they get Confirmed, and treating it as a graduation day, instead of as a Sacrament of Initiation.)

Back to the drawing board and another generation suffers through the great experiment. I recall the total distain the Baltimore Catechism was given when the revampers took over. They never learned, if it ain’t broke don’t fix it. They continue to fix and fiddle.

 

[jmcrae]

Back to the drawing board and another generation suffers through the great experiment. I recall the total distain the Baltimore Catechism was given when the revampers took over. They never learned, if it ain’t broke don’t fix it. They continue to fix and fiddle.

Didn’t the kids who learned the Baltimore Catechism have to do service projects? (Maybe not for Confirmation, but at some point during their religious education?)

 

[pprimeau1976]

Perhaps, although it also serves as a reminder that, now that you are Confirmed, there is an expectation of service in the Church. Confirmed Catholics should not be pew-warmers.

I am under the impression that the practice of requiring a service project is to introduce the mind-set of, “We are members now; not house guests, and those dishes are ours to wash, those poor at the gate are ours to feed,” etc. (Obviously, the concept is not getting through, though, if kids are still leaving the Church right after they get Confirmed, and treating it as a graduation day, instead of as a Sacrament of Initiation.)

The big problem is that there seem to be many kids and parents who really don’t care. This year was the first time I volunteered as a catechist and I participated in teaching two eighth grade catechism courses. Getting these kids to participate is like pulling teeth. Some of these kids don’t even attend mass and one went so far as to say that he was really an agnostic.

These kids were one year away from confirmation and all of them were scheduled to be confirmed because (according to the DRE) they would not refuse a sacrament to someone who asks for it. It made me wonder whether they would marry someone who was already married.

 

[grandfather]

Didn’t the kids who learned the Baltimore Catechism have to do service projects? (Maybe not for Confirmation, but at some point during their religious education?)

I was a kid. I only know what went on in my neck of the woods. Service projects were unheard of. The idea was to give the kids a basic knowledge of the teachings of the Church. Somehow this was achieved by the age of 12.

 

[mgy100]

The Sacrament of Confirmation has been denied to my son and I need to know if it is legal. The reason why it was denied is because I teach my children the faith at home. The books that I use are approved by our diocese and the USCCB. I have been teaching my children for 5 years now and my priest has always supported this. When it came time for my son to receive Confirmation the DRE denied it to my son saying that because he was not in a parish faith formation program he cannot receive Confirmation. I suggested that she test my son’s knowledge so that she knows he has been well taught in the faith. She refused saying that she did not have time to test every child that comes to her for Sacraments. On a side note: the parish does not test any of the children to see if they are ready. They need only meet the required number of attendance days.

I spoke to my priest about it and originally he sided with me until he had a private conversation with his DRE and now he is supporting her.

Based on this are they allowed to deny my son Confirmation? Needless to say this has been quite painful to our family.
Thanks in advance for your (name removed by moderator)ut.

St. Monica

Write the Bishop a detailed and well planned letter that says as everything in the least amount of words. State your case, provide a list of the materials you used and go from there.
A letter and a phone call. If you can not reach him, ask to talk to his right hand man, usually the chancellor.
Or go in and sit down with the priest and show him all the materials and bring him with you. I’m not sure how this all will be handled, but I would say if you properly state your case to the powers that be, and go up the ladder correctly you will get an answer.

 

[orionsbelt]

The “service project” requirement fad is something that always bothered me. It implies that one has to earn the right to the sacrament, to prove worthiness and commitment, by some outward show or demonstration, by jumping some silly hurdle. I am not sure, but this is probably theologically problematic.

I should say that my son does include service in his life independent of a special “service project” associated with Confirmation. I only offered this to the DRE to make her feel part of the process.

Service is a component of his curriculum at school and home life. I avoid using the word “required” because the school doesn’t position it that way (even though utimately it is required). They use it as part of the education process. I think a good portion of the kids understand it as part of living a Catholic life. But the school also realizes they are still kids learning so they make it part of the curiculum. Kids need to learn this by being taught and by seeing it come alive in our lives and the lives of their teachers. It is one of the reasons we send our kids to Catholic schools. I don;t beleive you can compartmentalize eductation into secular and spiritual educations.

 

[mgy100]

I was a kid. I only know what went on in my neck of the woods. Service projects were unheard of. The idea was to give the kids a basic knowledge of the teachings of the Church. Somehow this was achieved by the age of 12.

I know we had to do service projects for Catholic high school and confirmation. But the thing was, it wasn’t a requirement for me to fill, I already was active in volunteering in various organizations.
So the issue of “having to do a service project” was moot for me, I was already active in volunteering. So I just filled my paper out and turned them in to get my hours. In other words, these “service projects” are created to have kids participate in a part of Christian life they should already be active in without have to be told to do so. Helping your community shouldn’t be reduced to a “requirement.” I don’t know what it would be like if I didn’t volunteer, even to this day, and no one ever had to make me do it!
Hopefully some kids pick up the spirit of community service/helping/volunteering from those service hours.

 

[sandraladeda]

I found a parish that would allow me to home school my children and they would consider us part of their faith formation program. I brought this to my priest and asked if we could go through this program and then attend the sacramental prep program for Comfirmation. He said no. ** My children would have to attend the faith formation program at the parish ro not receive Confirmation. ** I asked him if he also required this of children who move into the parish. He just reiterated the requirements for my children.

Is there another arrangement I should look into?

I think the tricky part you might want to keep in mind is that there is a rule in place. The rule is that they must attend the sacramental prep program. While you have gone above and beyond in preparing your child, there are others who would ask for an exception to the rule as well, and who have not gone above and beyond, as you have.

Of course your child could be interviewed to determine readiness. Unfortunately, from my own experience of being extremely active in my own parish, like you are, there is not a lot of time or resources for such extras. Our staff and/or volunteers are already stretched thin, examining a candidate for readiness is not an option.

I see people walk away angry that their request for an exception to the rules has been denied when they are seeking to baptize their child and want to miss the classes (they’ve taken them before, or it’s not a convenient night, etc.) or when they wish to be married in our church but have not been participating as members of this community, or have not taken the marriage course, and so on. Your request for an exception is not the only one they hear. They can’t play favorites and award exceptions to the exceptional Catholics.

Our parish requires the parents to attend 3 or 4 sessions for First Communion prep, same for First Reconciliation prep, and it does not matter whether you have already been through it with 1 child or 10, you have to attend. I personally knew I did not need repeat sessions to prepare my children. However, I have to admit, I got something out of the courses every time. As time went on, I contributed to the course as well, and was helpful to the teacher.

Perhaps if you view it as a sacrifice, or as a minfestation of your own obedience, or humility, it would be easier to face the required course, whether you deem it to be adequate or not.

imho

 

[grandfather]

The big problem is that there seem to be many kids and parents who really don’t care. This year was the first time I volunteered as a catechist and I participated in teaching two eighth grade catechism courses. Getting these kids to participate is like pulling teeth. Some of these kids don’t even attend mass and one went so far as to say that he was really an agnostic.

These kids were one year away from confirmation and all of them were scheduled to be confirmed because (according to the DRE) they would not refuse a sacrament to someone who asks for it. It made me wonder whether they would marry someone who was already married.

The reason they do not care is the material they are being fed is useless. The programs have no appeal. Kids are spiritually hungry. Feed them and they will respond.

 

[grandfather]

I should say that my son does include service in his life independent of a special “service project” associated with Confirmation. I only offered this to the DRE to make her feel part of the process.

Service is a component of his curriculum at school and home life. I avoid using the word “required” because the school doesn’t position it that way (even though utimately it is required). They use it as part of the education process. I think a good portion of the kids understand it as part of living a Catholic life. But the school also realizes they are still kids learning so they make it part of the curiculum. Kids need to learn this by being taught and by seeing it come alive in our lives and the lives of their teachers. It is one of the reasons we send our kids to Catholic schools. I don;t beleive you can compartmentalize eductation into secular and spiritual educations.

If children are motivated to love their neighbor service will not have to be required. It comes naturally and is given freely. If they are forced to be nice it is meaningless and proves nothing.

 

[jmcrae]

I was a kid. I only know what went on in my neck of the woods. Service projects were unheard of. The idea was to give the kids a basic knowledge of the teachings of the Church. Somehow this was achieved by the age of 12.

Yes, and then by the time they were 24-30 years old, they had mostly all left the Church to join hippy communes, etc., so I am wondering if that is really the best approach to take with their grandchildren?

Obviously, yes, we need to teach them the basic facts, but we also need to make it plain to them that “this is you.” This may be a 2,000 year old message, but it includes you - you have privileges, and you also have duties; you’re not “done” when you’ve memorized all of the information. That’s just the beginning.

 

[orionsbelt]

I think the tricky part you might want to keep in mind is that there is a rule in place. The rule is that they must attend the sacramental prep program. While you have gone above and beyond in preparing your child, there are others who would ask for an exception to the rule as well, and who have not gone above and beyond, as you have.

Of course your child could be interviewed to determine readiness. Unfortunately, from my own experience of being extremely active in my own parish, like you are, there is not a lot of time or resources for such extras. Our staff and/or volunteers are already stretched thin, examining a candidate for readiness is not an option.

I see people walk away angry that their request for an exception to the rules has been denied when they are seeking to baptize their child and want to miss the classes (they’ve taken them before, or it’s not a convenient night, etc.) or when they wish to be married in our church but have not been participating as members of this community, or have not taken the marriage course, and so on. Your request for an exception is not the only one they hear. They can’t play favorites and award exceptions to the exceptional Catholics.

Our parish requires the parents to attend 3 or 4 sessions for First Communion prep, same for First Reconciliation prep, and it does not matter whether you have already been through it with 1 child or 10, you have to attend. I personally knew I did not need repeat sessions to prepare my children. However, I have to admit, I got something out of the courses every time. As time went on, I contributed to the course as well, and was helpful to the teacher.

Perhaps if you view it as a sacrifice, or as a minfestation of your own obedience, or humility, it would be easier to face the required course, whether you deem it to be adequate or not.

imho

I really hestitated to add this part but I will.

I actually don’t want my son to participate in the parish’s RE for HS kids (which is also the confirmation prep program) because I think it would have a negative effect on him.

My wife and I volunteered to be teachers in the program before we had children. We did it for 3 years. I’d say about 75 percent of the kids had absolutely no interest in becoming Confirmed. They were just there because their parents made them. Their family did not attend Mass in any regularity. It some cases they (and their parents) openly expressed negative or opposing views to the Catholic faith. I really didn’t understand why they were there. We tried our best and maybe had some effect on a few of the kids but I don’t know. We talked to the DRE at the time and she never considered not allowing these kids to be confirmed despite what we told her.

Perhaps you could make the argument that by participating he could have a positive influence on the other kids. However, kids who attend Catholic schools are frequently ostracized by kids who attend public schools (same as when I was a kid) so I think the oppisite is more likely. I’m not saying the parish should just give up, but I really don’t want my kids participating in that.

My wife’s younger sister currently volunteers as a teacher and she says it is about the same.

I’m sorry to sound elitist but they are my kids and my responsibility.

 

[grandfather]

I think the tricky part you might want to keep in mind is that there is a rule in place. The rule is that they must attend the sacramental prep program.
imho

What rule? Whose rule? There is no rule in place. There are policies or guidelines.
Any priest with faculties can confirm any person privately or receive a person into the faith, giving the sacraments of baptism, confirmation, penance and Holy Eucharist, any time he sees fit.

 

[jmcrae]

What rule? Whose rule? There is no rule in place. There are policies or guidelines.
Any priest with faculties can confirm any person privately or receive a person into the faith, giving the sacraments of baptism, confirmation, penance and Holy Eucharist, any time he sees fit.

The only hard-and-fast rule is that they have to be baptized before they can receive the Sacrament of Confirmation. (Apparently, you don’t even have to want to be Catholic, although I think that is sort of assumed.) Catechesis is not even required by the Church, although it is certainly strongly recommended.

 

[1ke]

Didn’t the kids who learned the Baltimore Catechism have to do service projects? (Maybe not for Confirmation, but at some point during their religious education?)

When the virtues (faith, hope, charity) and the corporal and spiritual works of mercy are being *lived *in the home, separate “service projects” are not necessary.

“Service projects” are a result of the abdication of faith formation by the majority of parents and failure on the part of parents to integrate the Faith into their lives.

 

[Just_1_hr_a_wk]

When the virtues (faith, hope, charity) and the corporal and spiritual works of mercy are being *lived *in the home, separate “service projects” are not necessary.

“Service projects” are a result of the abdication of faith formation by the majority of parents and failure on the part of parents to integrate the Faith into their lives.

“Service projects” are a tool, nothing more.

They can be great to introduce youth to a variety of ways to live the faith.

 

[1ke]

“Service projects” are a tool, nothing more.

A tool for what?

I believe these “service projects” do not accomplish their “objective.” I have seen many Confirmation students running around whining that they “need” their “service hours” and trying to check it off their “list” of things they “have” to do to get confirmed.

If the purpose is to teach them to integrate the virtues and works of mercy into their lives and hearts, it fails.

They can be great to introduce youth to a variety of ways to live the faith.

And, if they reach the age of confirmation without being “introduced” to a variety of ways to serve others and employ the corporal and spiritual works of mercy-- and must have the parish contrive “projects” to do so-- *someone *has failed to integrate the Faith into the home of the children.