Sacrament of Marriage Abroad

[saintodilia]

I’ll try not to make this confusing…

As a European, I know that most continetal European countires (Germany and France, for example) don’t recognise a church marriage as legal, and require a civil ceremony first, then a religious ceremony is optional.

I was thinking, as I’m a Catholic from Britain and have always admired the churches in Germany or France, etc., of getting married there some day. When a Catholic couple marries in a country like the above, in order for the marriage to be legal in both church and country, must the couple first marry in a civil ceremony?

Or, in other words, would the couple have to follow the marriage customs unique to the country they are marrying in, in order to make a marriage legal and binding in both their own country and the one they have chosen to marry? I know to be married in my country, it is strongly recommended to marry in your parish church.

 

[Cristiano]

I’ll try not to make this confusing…

**As a European, I know that most continetal European countires (Germany and France, for example) don’t recognise a church marriage as legal, and require a civil ceremony first, then a religious ceremony is optional. **

I was thinking, as I’m a Catholic from Britain and have always admired the churches in Germany or France, etc., of getting married there some day. When a Catholic couple marries in a country like the above, in order for the marriage to be legal in both church and country, must the couple first marry in a civil ceremony?

Or, in other words, would the couple have to follow the marriage customs unique to the country they are marrying in, in order to make a marriage legal and binding in both their own country and the one they have chosen to marry? I know to be married in my country, it is strongly recommended to marry in your parish church.

That it is not true. If a country does not recognize a Catholic marriage in the Church then this is a very simple case of separation of Church and state. That means that the couple can choose to marry first either in the Church or the government office.

As Catholics there is no obligation to marry in a civil framework but only in the Church. Even if the couple marries in the civil framework first they cannot live as husband and wife until they are married in the Church.

As a Catholic I personally would choose to marry first in the civil framework (just a quick annoying bureaucratic step) and then get married for real in the Church with all the feast and public celebration associated with it.

 

[saintodilia]

Thank you for your help! I was so confused as to what I had to do…

 

[Loren_1of6]

I don’t really know how international law works in Europe, or anywhere else for that matter. I do know that when my sister got married in Brazil (she and her husband are both citizens there), they followed the Brazilian way of doing things. They had the civil ceremony Friday afternoon where all the legal documents were signed, then on Saturday had the big Church wedding with reception following.

When they moved to the US a year later, they had a civil ceremony at my parents’ home with family and friends.

I have heard that since a ship’s captain has the authority to officiate a wedding ceremony, any wedding performed onboard a ship is legal. Where the Church fits in with that, I don’t know.

 

[Phemie]

In France the law requires you to marry at City Hall before you marry in the Church and the Church has agreed not to break that law.

It’s probably the same in most of the countries where the church marriage is not recognized.

Even if the Church did agree to marry you without a civil marriage, I seriously doubt that Britain would recognize a marriage that is not valid in the country in which it was celebrated.

 

[Phemie]

That it is not true. If a country does not recognize a Catholic marriage in the Church then this is a very simple case of separation of Church and state. That means that the couple can choose to marry first either in the Church or the government office.

Sorry, that’s wrong. The law in France & Germany requires you to marry at City Hall/Registry Office before you marry in the Church and the Church doesn’t break this law.

As Catholics there is no obligation to marry in a civil framework but only in the Church. Even if the couple marries in the civil framework first they cannot live as husband and wife until they are married in the Church.

As a Catholic I personally would choose to marry first in the civil framework (just a quick annoying bureaucratic step) and then get married for real in the Church with all the feast and public celebration associated with it.

It’s the only thing that makes sense. If you aren’t legally married it can create a real mess if one of the couple should die.

As for the OP, even if the Church consented to marry her without a civil marriage first, I doubt greatly that Britain would recognize a marriage that’s not legal in the country where it was celebrated.

 

[thistle]

Here in the Philippines you must have a civil marriage first and then a Church wedding.

 

[Cristiano]

Cristiano says:
That it is not true. If a country does not recognize a Catholic marriage in the Church then this is a very simple case of separation of Church and state. That means that the couple can choose to marry first either in the Church or the government office.

Phoemie says:
Sorry, that’s wrong. The law in France & Germany requires you to marry at City Hall/Registry Office before you marry in the Church and the Church doesn’t break this law.

With your statement you just proved my point! I made it clear to use the “if” qualifier in my statement. If you are correct in your statement (please provide a reference to the law and not to a common custom) then by implication the French and German governments recognize the Church function. You cannot legislate something that you do not recognize, you can only forbid it.

There is also big difference to “marry” in a city office vs. “register for marriage” in a city office. In one case it is a civil marriage and in the other case is the registration for a marriage to be performed in a different venue and accepted in a local venue. In other countries like in Italy you can marry in a civil office or register for marriage in a civil office and then marry in the Church.
If you do not register/notify the intent of marriage in the Church before the wedding then you have only a religious wedding without legal implications. However, the Church discourages such a procedure except in a few cases.

 

[Phemie]

With your statement you just proved my point! I made it clear to use the “if” qualifier in my statement. If you are correct in your statement (please provide a reference to the law and not to a common custom) then by implication the French and German governments recognize the Church function. You cannot legislate something that you do not recognize, you can only forbid it.

How could what I said prove your point??

In countries where the Church marriage is recognized by the State it doesn’t means that the State recognizes the religious marriage but that it allows the Church to act as an agent of the State and the person celebrating the marriage must be licensed by the state to do so. In Canada, just being a priest and marrying someone in the Church is not enough to have the marriage recognized by the State. The State must first license that priest to celebrate marriages. It’s a joint effort. At any time the State could decide to refuse to license priests or the Church could turn around and say “We will no longer act for the State.”

In France Switzerland and Germany only a civil marriage is legal. The priest will require a certificate of marriage proving that the civil marriage was celebrated before he will perform a religious marriage.

There is also big difference to “marry” in a city office vs. “register for marriage” in a city office. In one case it is a civil marriage and in the other case is the registration for a marriage to be performed in a different venue and accepted in a local venue. In other countries like in Italy you can marry in a civil office or register for marriage in a civil office and then marry in the Church.

In France, Switzerland and Germany you don’t have that option. You MUST marry at city hall BEFORE you marry in the Church.

If you do not register/notify the intent of marriage in the Church before the wedding then you have only a religious wedding without legal implications. However, the Church discourages such a procedure except in a few cases.

 

[puzzleannie]

you are bound by marriage laws of your own rite and your own diocese. If for a good reason the wedding will be performed outside the diocese, you begin your preparation in your home parish, and get the direction you need to proceed. If you are going outside the country that also entails getting in touch with your country’s consul in that country to make arrangements for not only the wedding, but the travel, so that your wedding is both valid and legal. if you reside or marry in a country that requires a civil marriage first, you may not live together as man and wife until the Church marriage takes place.