Sacrament of Matrimony and Mitt Romney

[valient_Lucy]

When Catholics explain the Sacrament of Matrimony, the usual explaination is that marriage, after the Fall, is almost impossible, so God had to make marriage a sacrament.

But if this is the case, how do Catholics explain a person like Mitt Romney, who, not being baptized, does not have a sacramental marriage, and yet has been married to his wife for decades? Are we to believe that he and his wife are lying about the state of their marriage?

 

[a83192]

not sure

 

[Bookcat]

It is simply that those you may have spoken too are not correct in how they discussed the matter…

It is more difficult after the fall but it is not that it “is almost impossible”

 

[Texas_Roofer]

I think you have mixed some things. Marriage does not have to be a sacrament. Baptized people are to have sacramental marriages. I know nothing of the people you name but I know they can marry as any man and woman can. Their marriage is known as a Natural Marriage.

 

[salusanimarum17]

When Catholics explain the Sacrament of Matrimony, the usual explaination is that marriage, after the Fall, is almost impossible, so God had to make marriage a sacrament. …

I’ve had 20+ years of education and a couple degrees related to the Catholic faith but I’ve never heard that “usual” explanation until today. I guess we must really live in different worlds. Be that as it may, I don’t accept the premise so I will not defend or explain the conclusion.

 

[1ke]

When Catholics explain the Sacrament of Matrimony, the usual explaination is that marriage, after the Fall, is almost impossible, so God had to make marriage a sacrament.

This is neither the usual, nor the correct, explanation.

 

[lizaanne]

I’ve had 20+ years of education and a couple degrees related to the Catholic faith but I’ve never heard that “usual” explanation until today. I guess we must really live in different worlds. Be that as it may, I don’t accept the premise so I will not defend or explain the conclusion.

You are not alone - I’ve never heard marriage explained that way.

But - to agree with another post - the Romneys are not in a sacramental marriage, but they ARE in a good and natural marriage. It is valid, but it is not sacramental. So no, they are not lying about anything. In the same way that two Jews are validly married, but not in a sacramental marriage.

~Liza

 

[Luvtosew]

Maybe not in the eyes of the Catholic Church but in the eyes of God I’m sure they are.

 

[valient_Lucy]

I’ve had 20+ years of education and a couple degrees related to the Catholic faith but I’ve never heard that “usual” explanation until today. I guess we must really live in different worlds. Be that as it may, I don’t accept the premise so I will not defend or explain the conclusion.

Fr. John Hardon SJ said “Marriage isn’t difficult, it’s just impossible. That’s why God made it a sacrament.” I’ve heard many others give that same argument as well.

I think that argument probably comes from earlier generations of Catholics, when Catholics probably didn’t have contact with lots of people who weren’t baptized.

 

[1ke]

Maybe not in the eyes of the Catholic Church but in the eyes of God I’m sure they are.

Are what?

 

[Luvtosew]

Are what?

Married, they probably got married in the Mormon Church and well even people who get married civily are still married in the eyes of God in my opinion.

 

[valient_Lucy]

I think you have mixed some things. Marriage does not have to be a sacrament. Baptized people are to have sacramental marriages. I know nothing of the people you name but I know they can marry as any man and woman can. Their marriage is known as a Natural Marriage.

Mitt Romney is running for the Republican nomination for President of the United States. He and his wife are Mormons; they have been married for decades and have five children, I think.

According to some, it is impossible for non-sacramental marriages to last. But people such as Mitt Romney, and many others, prove otherwise.

 

[1ke]

Married, they probably got married in the Mormon Church and well even people who get married civily are still married in the eyes of God in my opinion.

Of course they are married.

I am not sure why you are under the impression that they are “not married in the eyes of the Catholic Church”. This is simply an inaccurate statement.

 

[salusanimarum17]

Fr. John Hardon SJ said “Marriage isn’t difficult, it’s just impossible. That’s why God made it a sacrament.” I’ve heard many others give that same argument as well.

I think that argument probably comes from earlier generations of Catholics, when Catholics probably didn’t have contact with lots of people who weren’t baptized.

Well, I’ll be. Do you recall where I might find that comment of Fr. Hardon? As a married person (even granting the fact that it is a sacramental marriage), I couldn’t disagree more. It’s not *that *hard…and I’m not even that good of a Christian. (I think my wife would agree…with the first part, at least. )

 

[valient_Lucy]

Well, I’ll be. Do you recall where I might find that comment of Fr. Hardon? As a married person (even granting the fact that it is a sacramental marriage), I couldn’t disagree more. It’s not *that *hard…and I’m not even that good of a Christian. (I think my wife would agree…with the first part, at least. )

I’m looking it up right now.

 

[lizaanne]

According to some, it is impossible for non-sacramental marriages to last. But people such as Mitt Romney, and many others, prove otherwise.

What do you mean by “according to some”? Who is “some”?

I think you are very confused. There is a difference between a non-valid marriage, a non-sacramental marriage, and a valid natural marriage.

Once you figure these out, I think you will realize that the Romneys are just fine.

~Liza

 

[Luvtosew]

Of course they are married.

I am not sure why you are under the impression that they are “not married in the eyes of the Catholic Church”. This is simply an inaccurate statement.

If two people are catholic per say, does the Church think they are married if they had a civil marriage?
I do know they would not be able to receive communion, but are they considered married or living in sin??

You may be able to clear this up for me, as I’ve heard it both ways. Thanks.

 

[valient_Lucy]

What do you mean by “according to some”? Who is “some”?

I think you are very confused. There is a difference between a non-valid marriage, a non-sacramental marriage, and a valid natural marriage.

Once you figure these out, I think you will realize that the Romneys are just fine.

~Liza

Fr. John Hardon SJ, for example. He said that marriage was impossible outside of the sacrament of matrimony. That’s why Christ made marriage a sacrament; because it is impossible for two people to marry for life and stay faithful to each other.

 

[1ke]

If two people are catholic per say, does the Church think they are married if they had a civil marriage?

We are not talking about Catholics. We are talking about Mitt Romney and his wife, neither of whom is Catholic. They marry validly when they marry civilly.

When a Catholic marries, in addition to valid consent there is another criteria for validity and that is form or dispensation from it. That applies only to Catholics and those marrying a Catholic.

I do know they would not be able to receive communion, but are they considered married or living in sin??

They are validly married. They are not living in sin.

You may be able to clear this up for me, as I’ve heard it both ways. Thanks.

Perhaps what you heard was in reference to a Catholic who married outside the Church (lack of form) without the proper dispensations.

None of that appiies to two non-Catholics.

 

[1ke]

Fr. John Hardon SJ, for example. He said that marriage was impossible outside of the sacrament of matrimony. That’s why Christ made marriage a sacrament; because it is impossible for two people to marry for life and stay faithful to each other.

Well, no, that is not at all what Fr. Hardon said.