Sacramental Confusion

[Metaron]

Hello, as you all know, I’m going through RCIA from Anglicanism, but anyway, I have a lot of questions about sacramentals:

I have left-over Anglican sacramentals that I still use, such as the Anglican Rosary (I pray the Marian Rosary as well, and also the Rosariette of the Cross). Is it wrong for me to occasionally use them, as I still do? I also venerate Our Lady of Walsingham, which is an Anglican devotion, and consider St.Charles the King a saint (he is the only exclusively Anglican saint). What should I do?

I also have a high admiration for Jewish thought and the ancient Old Testament religion. I have many Jewish sacramentals as well as Anglican ones, and I was wondering if I was being a bad Catholic because of this. Heck, I have a crucifix and a chamsa hanging from my rear-view mirror (Along with saint medals). Is it wrong for me to use Jewish and Anglican sacramentals alongside Roman Catholics ones?

 

[jmcrae]

Over time, you will gradually let go of the things from your previous life, but you are not required to give them all up at once, cold turkey. It takes time to completely unlatch from one’s previous traditions. Take your time, and don’t worry. There will come a day when you notice that you haven’t used your Anglican rosary in a really long time, and then you’ll think that it might time to put it away - but until then, be gentle with yourself. One step at a time is enough.

A wise priest once told me, “The pilgrim makes greatest progress, who walks slowly.”

 

[Metaron]

Over time, you will gradually let go of the things from your previous life, but you are not required to give them all up at once, cold turkey. It takes time to completely unlatch from one’s previous traditions. Take your time, and don’t worry. There will come a day when you notice that you haven’t used your Anglican rosary in a really long time, and then you’ll think that it might time to put it away - but until then, be gentle with yourself. One step at a time is enough.

A wise priest once told me, “The pilgrim makes greatest progress, who walks slowly.”

So, are you telling me I should give them up, even if I like them and think using them is helping me get closer to God or thwart evil temptations or forces? Does God use Anglican sacramentals (That have been blessed, by the way, by a valid priest) or Jewish sacramentals (I blessed them, but I’m no priest ) to dispense graces?

 

[jmcrae]

So, are you telling me I should give them up, even if I like them and think using them is helping me get closer to God or thwart evil temptations or forces? Does God use Anglican sacramentals (That have been blessed, by the way, by a valid priest) or Jewish sacramentals (I blessed them, but I’m no priest ) to dispense graces?

What I am saying is that it is fine to use them now, during the transition period of conversion. You are not going to convert all at once; Anglican one day, and then Catholic the next. It’s a slow process of one thing at a time, with lots of rest stops along the way.

After the process of conversion is completed, and you have begun to think like a Catholic, you yourself will no longer want to use them. Until then, yes, you can use them; they seem to be helping you.

I have a friend in RCIA who uses Aztec sun god symbols because he finds them helpful - he, too, will give these up over time, as he becomes interiorly converted, and as he finds more appropriate Catholic symbols to use in their place. It’s okay - conversion is a slow process. Take your time.

I am not competent to judge whether such things can actually be blessed.

 

[mercygate]

Hello, as you all know, I’m going through RCIA from Anglicanism, but anyway, I have a lot of questions about sacramentals:

I have left-over Anglican sacramentals that I still use, such as the Anglican Rosary (I pray the Marian Rosary as well, and also the Rosariette of the Cross). Is it wrong for me to occasionally use them, as I still do?

These are private devotions. No need to scrap them as long as they do not conflict with Catholic teaching.

I also venerate Our Lady of Walsingham, which is an Anglican devotion,

Nah. Anglicans adopted Our Lady of Walsingham.

. . . and consider St.Charles the King a saint (he is the only exclusively Anglican saint). What should I do?

As a former Anglican, I have great respect and affection for Charles I. But as a Catholic I do not venerate him as a Saint – though I personally believe him to have been martyred for his faith.

I also have a high admiration for Jewish thought and the ancient Old Testament religion. I have many Jewish sacramentals as well as Anglican ones, and I was wondering if I was being a bad Catholic because of this. Heck, I have a crucifix and a chamsa hanging from my rear-view mirror (Along with saint medals). Is it wrong for me to use Jewish and Anglican sacramentals alongside Roman Catholics ones?

Again: prudence should be your guide.

I cannot think of any “Anglican” sacramentals that didn’t come out of Catholic tradition or that would be contrary to the Catholic faith. The Anglican rosary is just a novel kind of bead-prayer device invented to imitate a Catholic tradition without actually being Catholic. (You know: ANYTHING but CATHOLIC!) When I was an Anglican, I prayed the standard Dominican rosary and rather scoffed at the “Anglican” rosary as a cowardly copy. I was, and continue to be quite insufferable!

Hey! Welcome to this side of the Tiber. You have a LOT of great company over here.

 

[Metaron]

These are private devotions. No need to scrap them as long as they do not conflict with Catholic teaching. Nah. Anglicans adopted Our Lady of Walsingham.

I beg to differ. I thought Anglicans adoped it from a private Catholic devotion, then Catholics adopted if from public Anglican devotion.

As a former Anglican, I have great respect and affection for Charles I. But as a Catholic I do not venerate him as a Saint – though I personally believe him to have been martyred for his faith.

Aren’t all Christians who die from martyrdom immediately assumed into Heaven and therefore, saints?

I cannot think of any “Anglican” sacramentals that didn’t come out of Catholic tradition or that would be contrary to the Catholic faith. The Anglican rosary is just a novel kind of bead-prayer device invented to imitate a Catholic tradition without actually being Catholic. (You know: ANYTHING but CATHOLIC!) When I was an Anglican, I prayed the standard Dominican rosary and rather scoffed at the “Anglican” rosary as a cowardly copy. I was, and continue to be quite insufferable!

I don’t know, the attitude at my parish was very pro-Catholic, and we even had Eucharistic Adoration in lent. We prayed both rosaries, Dominican as well as Anglican. Maybe originally the Anglican rosary was designed that way, but we didn’t think of it like that.

Hey! Welcome to this side of the Tiber. You have a LOT of great company over here.

Yay! I’m happy to be Roman Catholic! Pray that my fundamentalist, anabaptist, and evangelical Protestant family converts.

 

[mercygate]

I beg to differ. I thought Anglicans adoped it from a private Catholic devotion, then Catholics adopted if from public Anglican devotion.

However you call it, it started in the 11th century.

Aren’t all Christians who die from martyrdom immediately assumed into Heaven and therefore, saints?

Only if they die for the true faith. I’m not in a position to call it for Charles I. But he was Anglican, so he’s not going to be canonized on this side of the river. Neither is Dieterich Bonhoeffer, nor are the Anglican Martyrs of Uganda who burned alive in the same fire with the Catholics who were canonized. THis is a point of order more than of theology. For my :twocents: God has said to every one of them: “Well done, good and faithful servant.” But that doesn’t make them suitable for public devotion, any more than is my grandmother, who is SURELY sipping tea with our Lady, even as I write.

I don’t know, the attitude at my parish was very pro-Catholic, and we even had Eucharistic Adoration in lent. We prayed both rosaries, Dominican as well as Anglican. Maybe originally the Anglican rosary was designed that way, but we didn’t think of it like that.

Yeah: we had adoration, stations of the cross, rosary (Dominican), big statue of the Sacred Heart over the Tabernacle on the main altar, shrines to St. Anthony of Padua, Our Lady, St. Joseph, Our Lady of Walsingham, confession every week . . . We were “more” catholic in FORM and discipline (we didn’t contracept) than a lot of “practicing” Catholics.

As I said: you have a lot of company. Catholics aren’t always thrilled to see people like us walkin’ in the door. We’re kind of a threat to certain management types. KWIM?

Yay! I’m happy to be Roman Catholic! Pray that my fundamentalist, anabaptist, and evangelical Protestant family converts.

Pray for 'em.

 

[Metaron]

…Only if they die for the true faith. I’m not in a position to call it for Charles I. But he was Anglican, so he’s not going to be canonized on this side of the river. Neither is Dieterich Bonhoeffer, nor are the Anglican Martyrs of Uganda who burned alive in the same fire with the Catholics who were canonized. THis is a point of order more than of theology. For my :twocents: God has said to every one of them: “Well done, good and faithful servant.” But that doesn’t make them suitable for public devotion, any more than is my grandmother, who is SURELY sipping tea with our Lady, even as I write.

Is it morally wrong to continue to believe in his sainthood even though he’ll never be canonized by the church? After all, alot of the E.O. saints are’nt canonized by Rome… The Anglican martyrs too… I don’t want them to be left out. I feel bad that only the Catholic ones were canonized…

As I said: you have a lot of company. Catholics aren’t always thrilled to see people like us walkin’ in the door. We’re kind of a threat to certain management types. KWIM?

Yeah! I’m going through RCIA and I’m already jumpin’ on the priest and others about such things as the processional “resifix”, the two glass “chalices”, and the post-modern Advent decor at my new Catholic church. A bit presumptuous of me…

 

[mercygate]

Is it morally wrong to continue to believe in his sainthood even though he’ll never be canonized by the church? After all, alot of the E.O. saints are’nt canonized by Rome… The Anglican martyrs too… I don’t want them to be left out. I feel bad that only the Catholic ones were canonized…

Well, you can certainly understand that the Catholic Church can only approve for public veneration those who during their lives held the full Catholic faith – right? Canonization really amounts to a declaration of certainty that people are in Heaven and may be PUBLICLY venerated. I don’t feel worse that Dieterich Bonhoeffer cannot wear the Catholic label of sainthood than that my Anglican grandmother cannot. The Church certainly does not say that they – or the Anglican martyrs of Uganda – are NOT in Heaven. In fact, in the canonization of Charles Lwanga and companions, the Pope specifically referenced the Anglicans who died with them.

Yeah! I’m going through RCIA and I’m already jumpin’ on the priest and others about such things as the processional “resifix”, the two glass “chalices”, and the post-modern Advent decor at my new Catholic church. A bit presumptuous of me…

Yup. Those are things that really are “not your job” at this point. Later, when you’re fully on board, you can volunteer for Liturgy Committee, and if they’ll have you (don’t count on it), you can make all the noise you want.

For my part, I decided not to do such severe penance but volunteered to teach CCD, where nobody ever gets fired, and I can teach the “real deal” without fear of reprisal.

 

[Metaron]

Yeah!

 

[cecilia97]

Hello, as you all know, I’m going through RCIA from Anglicanism, but anyway, I have a lot of questions about sacramentals:

I have left-over Anglican sacramentals that I still use, such as the Anglican Rosary (I pray the Marian Rosary as well, and also the Rosariette of the Cross). Is it wrong for me to occasionally use them, as I still do? I also venerate Our Lady of Walsingham, which is an Anglican devotion, and consider St.Charles the King a saint (he is the only exclusively Anglican saint). What should I do?

I also have a high admiration for Jewish thought and the ancient Old Testament religion. I have many Jewish sacramentals as well as Anglican ones, and I was wondering if I was being a bad Catholic because of this. Heck, I have a crucifix and a chamsa hanging from my rear-view mirror (Along with saint medals). Is it wrong for me to use Jewish and Anglican sacramentals alongside Roman Catholics ones?

I’m no expert, but it sounds like you should be fine. Christ and Our Lady accept all of your devotions!

I was just at Mass at Our Lady of Walsingham in Houston recently…an Anglican use Roman Catholic parish with a great devotion to Our Lady of Walsingham and connection to the original shrine in England. You’re in good hands with her.

 

[Metaron]

I’m no expert, but it sounds like you should be fine. Christ and Our Lady accept all of your devotions!

I was just at Mass at Our Lady of Walsingham in Houston recently…an Anglican use Roman Catholic parish with a great devotion to Our Lady of Walsingham and connection to the original shrine in England. You’re in good hands with her.

Yes! I’m firstly Roman Catholic, secondly Anglican Catholic, and thirdly, I love Jewish devotionals and sacramentals. I have a mini-Torah on my domestic altar, along with a crucifix, a little incense burner, candles, and St. Joseph picture. I decorated my home altar with flowers, too. I want an Lady of Walsingham statue, but I can’t find her anywhere.

 

[mercygate]

Yes! I’m firstly Roman Catholic, secondly Anglican Catholic, and thirdly, I love Jewish devotionals and sacramentals. I have a mini-Torah on my domestic altar, along with a crucifix, a little incense burner, candles, and St. Joseph picture. I decorated my home altar with flowers, too. I want an Lady of Walsingham statue, but I can’t find her anywhere.

The shrine in England sells them in their shop. Scroll down a bit.

The Jews where I work think I’m screwy (well, no argument about that!) because when I go into the Jewish chapel, I always bow slightly to the Torah shrine before I sit down . . .

 

[Metaron]

The shrine in England sells them in their shop. Scroll down a bit.

The Jews where I work think I’m screwy (well, no argument about that!) because when I go into the Jewish chapel, I always bow slightly to the Torah shrine before I sit down . . .

Thanks for the link! Awesome. How much is 23 pounds in American dollars?

LOL, it’d be really funny if you would genuflect…

You go to the Jewish chapel occasionally?

 

[jmcrae]

Thanks for the link! Awesome. How much is 23 pounds in American dollars?

LOL, it’d be really funny if you would genuflect…

That reminds me of an absolutely hilarious scene in Hustle - Danny interrupts his Jewish friend at prayers in the synagogue to do a deal (it’s the Sabbath, and his friend keeps protesting that he is not allowed to buy or sell on the Sabbath. Danny says, “Okay, okay, don’t get your underpants in a knot - we’re exchanging Hannukah gifts, all right?!!” - “[SIGH] okay”) - and then on his way out, he genuflects to the Torah and makes the sign of the cross, much to the consternation of the rabbi, who is more than happy to see him leave.

 

[Metaron]

That reminds me of an absolutely hilarious scene in Hustle - Danny interrupts his Jewish friend at prayers in the synagogue to do a deal (it’s the Sabbath, and his friend keeps protesting that he is not allowed to buy or sell on the Sabbath. Danny says, “Okay, okay, don’t get your underpants in a knot - we’re exchanging Hannukah gifts, all right?!!” - “[SIGH] okay”) - and then on his way out, he genuflects to the Torah and makes the sign of the cross, much to the consternation of the rabbi, who is more than happy to see him leave.

That’s funny! I’ve never seen that movie, it sounds funny What’s it rated?

 

[mercygate]

Thanks for the link! Awesome. How much is 23 pounds in American dollars?

LOL, it’d be really funny if you would genuflect…

You go to the Jewish chapel occasionally?

There’s an ongoing monthly lecture series on halakah and medical ethics in there. So yes. I go to the Jewish chapel frequently.

 

[jmcrae]

That’s funny! I’ve never seen that movie, it sounds funny What’s it rated?

It’s actually a TV series, and it comes on fairly late at night. I wouldn’t let kids watch it - it’s about a group of criminals who go around playing really dirty tricks on people that they don’t like.

It’s funny because they do the kinds of things we all think of doing from time to time, but would never dare (because, unlike characters on a fictional TV show, we’d get caught and go to jail for a really long time).

 

[bpbasilphx]

** I also venerate Our Lady of Walsingham, which is an Anglican devotion,**

In an example of Ecumenicism at its finest, there is also an Orthodox shrine and Orthodox monastic community at Walsingham. And founded with the blessings of Met. Philip (Saliba) and Met. Kallistos (Ware) is the Orthodox Society of Our Lady of Walsingham.

 

[Metaron]

** I also venerate Our Lady of Walsingham, which is an Anglican devotion,**

In an example of Ecumenicism at its finest, there is also an Orthodox shrine and Orthodox monastic community at Walsingham. And founded with the blessings of Met. Philip (Saliba) and Met. Kallistos (Ware) is the Orthodox Society of Our Lady of Walsingham.

Cool! Orthodox have some cool saints too, that I like alot.