Sacramental Marriage

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My fiance and i are getting married in May of 2010. We were planning to get married at her church, and we received papers from the church explaining what we have to do. We got to a part that says they cannot perform a Sacramental Marriage if the couple lives together before they are married. We asked around and no one could give us an answer as to what this meant. I am hoping someone can explain this to me!
 
My fiance and i are getting married in May of 2010. We were planning to get married at her church, and we received papers from the church explaining what we have to do. We got to a part that says they cannot perform a Sacramental Marriage if the couple lives together before they are married. We asked around and no one could give us an answer as to what this meant. I am hoping someone can explain this to me!
jeffandreen,
“living together” is pretty self-explanatory. It means just what is sounds like it means–along with everything else that is implied in the statement. As for how that is applied to your own personal situation, the one to ask about that is your own pastor. He’s the one who makes the final decision as to whether or not you are ready and properly disposed to be married. No one here knows your personal situation (in fact, it might not even apply to you, as you may just be asking about something you see on a form). Living together does not automatically disqualify a couple from ever getting married–but the “living together” part has to cease before the marriage can go forward. That’s a general statement. If this does apply to you, please speak with your pastor about that and follow his guidance. Internet posters can give objective answers to questions, but we can’t give proper counsel to individual couples.
 
My fiance and i are getting married in May of 2010. We were planning to get married at her church, and we received papers from the church explaining what we have to do. We got to a part that says they cannot perform a Sacramental Marriage if the couple lives together before they are married. We asked around and no one could give us an answer as to what this meant. I am hoping someone can explain this to me!
Are you and your girlfriend living together? Are you a Catholic? Is she?

What it means is self-explanatory-- I’m not sure who you asked or why they were unable to tell you what it means.

Living together is a grave offense against marriage. Therefore, a couple who lives together must cease living together, cease sexual relations, go to Reconciliation, and prepare for the Sacrament properly.

You should discuss your situation with your priest. He will guide you on what is necessary to prepare for and receive the Sacrament of Matrimony.
 
FrDavid - Has the Church been more vigilant about this. As a musician and someone who deals with a lot of bridal couples for Catholic weddings, I find that many of them share the same address. I do not ask additional questions as I believe it is between them, God and their priest, and I also know that for some they may just be using one address even though they don’t live together. But being of the same generation as most of these couples getting married and knowing a lot of Catholic engaged couples who are actually living together, it doesn’t seem as if anything is really being done. My husband and I did not live together, but in our group pre-cana classes, it was hardly even touched upon. Although for some pre-cana classes today, they do have special groups for couples currently living together. I don’t know what they talked about, but the couple who did this was so “impressed” at how far the Church has come in regards to this, in terms of facing the issue. I didn’t get clearly if they meant that they were actually accepting it as a given or that they were encouraging these couples to stop living together.
 
FrDavid - Has the Church been more vigilant about this. As a musician and someone who deals with a lot of bridal couples for Catholic weddings, I find that many of them share the same address. I do not ask additional questions as I believe it is between them, God and their priest, and I also know that for some they may just be using one address even though they don’t live together. But being of the same generation as most of these couples getting married and knowing a lot of Catholic engaged couples who are actually living together, it doesn’t seem as if anything is really being done. My husband and I did not live together, but in our group pre-cana classes, it was hardly even touched upon. Although for some pre-cana classes today, they do have special groups for couples currently living together. I don’t know what they talked about, but the couple who did this was so “impressed” at how far the Church has come in regards to this, in terms of facing the issue. I didn’t get clearly if they meant that they were actually accepting it as a given or that they were encouraging these couples to stop living together.
Times are changing–and not necessarily for the better when it comes to this issue. The Church is trying to deal with this. The Church needs to present the teachings of the faith, but at the same time recognize the realities of the modern world. That doesn’t mean that the Church accepts the changing morality, but rather that the Church sometimes has to adjust the approach that is taken with individual couples. In our society, we no longer take it for granted that couples do not live together if they aren’t married. The Church never endorses or accepts it, or even ignores it, but the methods used to teach the Truths have to be modified. If couples are being told that the Church is moving toward being open to this sort of thing, then someone is presenting a false teaching. Clergy realize the reality that couples are going to live together and continue to live together regardless of how strongly the teaching of the faith is presented–anything else is simply being naive. But keep in mind that dealing with that fact is not the same thing as endorsing or ignoring it.
 
FrDavid - Has the Church been more vigilant about this. As a musician and someone who deals with a lot of bridal couples for Catholic weddings, I find that many of them share the same address. I do not ask additional questions as I believe it is between them, God and their priest, and I also know that for some they may just be using one address even though they don’t live together. But being of the same generation as most of these couples getting married and knowing a lot of Catholic engaged couples who are actually living together, it doesn’t seem as if anything is really being done. My husband and I did not live together, but in our group pre-cana classes, it was hardly even touched upon. Although for some pre-cana classes today, they do have special groups for couples currently living together. I don’t know what they talked about, but the couple who did this was so “impressed” at how far the Church has come in regards to this, in terms of facing the issue. I didn’t get clearly if they meant that they were actually accepting it as a given or that they were encouraging these couples to stop living together.
The Church’s teaching is clear.

There may be priests who ignore it. I know couples who lived together and the priest looke the other way. Sad.

There may be couples who ignore it-- I know a couple that lived together and **lied **to the priest. The man put down their address on the forms and the woman put down her parent’s address even though she didn’t live there. Sad.

God does not ignore it.
 
My fiance and i are getting married in May of 2010. We were planning to get married at her church, and we received papers from the church explaining what we have to do. We got to a part that says they cannot perform a Sacramental Marriage if the couple lives together before they are married. We asked around and no one could give us an answer as to what this meant. I am hoping someone can explain this to me!
it means that if a couple were living together (with all that implies in our culture, namely taking the privileges reserved for marriage) they are objectively in a state of mortal sin, and that condition must be rectified, by changing their manner of living, sacramental confession and absolution, and counselling, which is usually part of the marriage preparation program, on the sacredness of marriage and the the true meaning and purpose of the gift of sexuality. One must be in the state of grace to receive the sacrament of matrimony, so this, as well as any other gravely sinful condition or habit, must be resolved before the sacrament can take place. Only the priest, when you meet with him, can tell you personally if there is anything in your life that would be a barrier to the sacrament.
 
The Catholic Church regards any vaild marriage between two baptized persons as a Sacramental Marriage. So it sounds to me like they are saying they will not marry a couple who has been living together prior to marriage.

This seems to conflict with the statements about cohabitating couples on the US Confrence of Catholic Bishops website about marriage:

"If you are a cohabiting couple who has chosen to marry, the Catholic Church welcomes your decision to marry. Because cohabitation can have an effect on the marriage, couples are encouraged to explore certain questions with the pastoral minister who is preparing them for marriage. . . .Pastoral ministers may encourage cohabiting couples without children to separate for a period before marriage as a sign of their free, loving decision to follow the Church’s vision of marriage and sexuality. Couples are also encouraged to receive the Sacrament of Reconciliation. . . .People have a right to marry; therefore, cohabiting couples cannot be denied marriage in the Catholic Church solely because they are cohabiting. However, cohabitation may raise questions, for example, about the couple’s freedom to marry, that need to be explored.

foryourmarriage.org/interior_template.asp?id=20398797
 
It means that if you are living together, you need to find a different arrangement, get to Confession and prepare to recieve the Sacrament!!
 
The Catholic Church regards any vaild marriage between two baptized persons as a Sacramental Marriage. So it sounds to me like they are saying they will not marry a couple who has been living together prior to marriage.

This seems to conflict with the statements about cohabitating couples on the US Confrence of Catholic Bishops website about marriage:

"If you are a cohabiting couple who has chosen to marry, the Catholic Church welcomes your decision to marry. Because cohabitation can have an effect on the marriage, couples are encouraged to explore certain questions with the pastoral minister who is preparing them for marriage. . . .Pastoral ministers may encourage cohabiting couples without children to separate for a period before marriage as a sign of their free, loving decision to follow the Church’s vision of marriage and sexuality. Couples are also encouraged to receive the Sacrament of Reconciliation. . . .People have a right to marry; therefore, cohabiting couples cannot be denied marriage in the Catholic Church solely because they are cohabiting. However, cohabitation may raise questions, for example, about the couple’s freedom to marry, that need to be explored.

foryourmarriage.org/interior_template.asp?id=20398797
I know that sounds a bit confusing at first. Let’s try to make it more concrete. Say a couple is living together. That fact in itself does not make it impossible for them to have a sacramental marriage at some time in the future. If they seperate first (thus ending the state of sin) then they are eligible to be married in the Church. These cases have to be handled on a very personal level, and each one is different. I only use the above example to illustrate how it is possible for a cohabitating couple to get married (it’s not the only possible scenario of course).
 
I know that sounds a bit confusing at first. Let’s try to make it more concrete. Say a couple is living together. That fact in itself does not make it impossible for them to have a sacramental marriage at some time in the future. If they seperate first (thus ending the state of sin) then they are eligible to be married in the Church. These cases have to be handled on a very personal level, and each one is different. I only use the above example to illustrate how it is possible for a cohabitating couple to get married (it’s not the only possible scenario of course).
Well, the guidlines stated above say “may encourage” the couple to separate. What you are describing sounds more like “will require” the couple to separate. Of course there are other steps in between including “will encourage” and “may require.”

Would it be accurate to say that each diocese/parish/priest has a great degree of latitude in how they choose to handle each individual situation?
 
Well, the guidlines stated above say “may encourage” the couple to separate. What you are describing sounds more like “will require” the couple to separate. Of course there are other steps in between including “will encourage” and “may require.”

Would it be accurate to say that each diocese/parish/priest has a great degree of latitude in how they choose to handle each individual situation?
Actually, that’s exactly what I’m trying to say. That’s why I was careful to say that I presented one possible scenario, and not the only one.

There’s a certain latitude in how do deal with individual people. That doesn’t mean that the Church ever compromises her teachings and beliefs about the sanctity of marriage, or the objective fact that relations between unmarried people are sinful. The Church never encourages this, not directly nor indirectly. What I’m trying to say is that such a situation requires pastoral sensitivity and somehow the priest must balance the reality of today’s society (with our admittedly loose norms) with the Truth taught by the Church. That’s not always an easy thing to do. Every couple must be dealt with pastorally on an individual basis.

Please don’t misunderstand me here. I am not at all saying that a diocese or parish may have a policy that if people are living together, the Church merely accepts that and goes ahead with the marriage. The latitude and judgment exist in the approach of how to properly deal with the situation, and not latitude to permit or ignore it.
 
What I’m trying to say is that such a situation requires pastoral sensitivity and somehow the priest must balance the reality of today’s society (with our admittedly loose norms) with the Truth taught by the Church. That’s not always an easy thing to do. Every couple must be dealt with pastorally on an individual basis.

Please don’t misunderstand me here. I am not at all saying that a diocese or parish may have a policy that if people are living together, the Church merely accepts that and goes ahead with the marriage. The latitude and judgment exist in the approach of how to properly deal with the situation, and not latitude to permit or ignore it.
I think this makes a lot of sense, and is very much in keeping with what is on the USCCB website. I’m sure some priests have an easier time finding an appropriate way to balance those challenges than others, and I’m sure it’s never easy.

What concerns me a bit is that the OP and his fiancee seem to have received something from her parish which would essentially tell a cohabitating couple “you cannot be married in the Church.” I think this is a problem because:
  1. It doesn’t seem to be true. While it is certainly not ideal, it does seem to be possible for a couple to be married in the Church even if they have been cohabitating.
  2. I think it is more likely to result in couples lying about their living situation or marrying outside the Church. I know couples who have done both. If you don’t scare them away, you at least have an opportunity to present the church’s teaching to them and hope that they will choose to live accordingly.
 
I think this makes a lot of sense, and is very much in keeping with what is on the USCCB website. I’m sure some priests have an easier time finding an appropriate way to balance those challenges than others, and I’m sure it’s never easy.

What concerns me a bit is that the OP and his fiancee seem to have received something from her parish which would essentially tell a cohabitating couple “you cannot be married in the Church.” I think this is a problem because:
  1. It doesn’t seem to be true. While it is certainly not ideal, it does seem to be possible for a couple to be married in the Church even if they have been cohabitating.
  2. I think it is more likely to result in couples lying about their living situation or marrying outside the Church. I know couples who have done both. If you don’t scare them away, you at least have an opportunity to present the church’s teaching to them and hope that they will choose to live accordingly.
I’m merely trying to make clear that the cohabitation in the past does not make marriage absolutely impossible–that might be the impression that the OP has (once we live together, we can never get married). That brings us back to the beginning that the couple needs to have a sit-down with the pastor for clarification and guidance. They need to hear it from him, and not from internet posts, no matter how well-meaning. I’m concerned that our conversation here could just make it all the more confusing.
 
I heard a brilliant suggestion to the cohabitation problem a few months ago, wish I could remember the genius priest that was advocating it…

Basically, when the couple rejects the priest’s gentle admonition to live apart, because it’s “not possible” for some reason or another, he then informs them that since the Church wishes to remedy their situation in as discreet and non-scandalous a fashion as possible, he will have to marry them in a very simple ceremony with only two witnesses in attendance-- no big procession, floral arrangements, wedding party, music, etc. Just the needed basics to actually perform a marriage, as opposed to all the non-essential wedding trappings.

Suddenly, options appear-- the bride could move back home for a few months, the groom remembers he has a buddy willing to lend him the spare room until July, etc…

The only bit I don’t recall is what, if anything, the priest did about verifying this. But I thought it was an interesting approach.

Margaret
 
FrDavid - Has the Church been more vigilant about this. As a musician and someone who deals with a lot of bridal couples for Catholic weddings, I find that many of them share the same address. I do not ask additional questions as I believe it is between them, God and their priest, and I also know that for some they may just be using one address even though they don’t live together. But being of the same generation as most of these couples getting married and knowing a lot of Catholic engaged couples who are actually living together, it doesn’t seem as if anything is really being done. My husband and I did not live together, but in our group pre-cana classes, it was hardly even touched upon. Although for some pre-cana classes today, they do have special groups for couples currently living together. I don’t know what they talked about, but the couple who did this was so “impressed” at how far the Church has come in regards to this, in terms of facing the issue. I didn’t get clearly if they meant that they were actually accepting it as a given or that they were encouraging these couples to stop living together.
I know you asked Fr. But, yes, I also see the Church starting to enforce this more and more, as it should. some are refusing to Marry a couple if they are pregnant or have a child under 1 or 2 years old also.
 
I know you asked Fr. But, yes, I also see the Church starting to enforce this more and more, as it should. some are refusing to Marry a couple if they are pregnant or have a child under 1 or 2 years old also.
:eek:

While I understand that such couples deserve and should receive extra counsel prior to marriage, how is such a refusal thought to be helpful?

“You want to normalize your situation and receive the graces of the sacrament? Nooooo – You go wallow in your sins for 3 or 4 more years. We’ll call when we’re ready for you.”

That does not seem to me to be the surest way to bring souls to Christ…?

tee
 
:eek:

While I understand that such couples deserve and should receive extra counsel prior to marriage, how is such a refusal thought to be helpful?

“You want to normalize your situation and receive the graces of the sacrament? Nooooo – You go wallow in your sins for 3 or 4 more years. We’ll call when we’re ready for you.”

That does not seem to me to be the surest way to bring souls to Christ…?

tee
The couple has to be ready and willing to accept and embrace the Sacrament of Marriage, with all that entails. A couple who get married simply for the sake of appearances, are looking for a ceremony not a sacrament. The Church has to be sure that they want the later, not the former.
 
The couple has to be ready and willing to accept and embrace the Sacrament of Marriage, with all that entails. A couple who get married simply for the sake of appearances, are looking for a ceremony not a sacrament. The Church has to be sure that they want the later, not the former.
Allow me to repeat myself:
I understand that such couples deserve and should receive extra counsel prior to marriage
Isn’t the couple’s seeking of the sacrament evidence (even a little bit?) of willingness to embrace it? How do they* know a couple is only seeking appearances and ceremony?

Perhaps more importantly, how does such a policy square with Canon 1058?

(* [user]Br. Rich SFO[/user]'s post is ambiguous – What is the antecedant of “some”? “Priests”? “Parishes”? Something else?)

tee
 
I know you asked Fr. But, yes, I also see the Church starting to enforce this more and more, as it should. some are refusing to Marry a couple if they are pregnant or have a child under 1 or 2 years old also.
That I’ve actually seen more than refusing to marry a couple because they are living together without children. Although I would rather see a couple married who has a child, I also see the benefit in not marrying them right away if the child is under a certain age to be sure that they are not doing this for the wrong reasons.

I know one couple who actually had a difficult time finding a priest to marry them because they had a child out of wedlock who was under the age of one. The parents of the groom had a priest friend of the family and asked him to marry them at his parish, but although it had the trappings of a Catholic church, the priest, either because he was doing this for friends and/or was normally so nonchalant about the faith, allowed things that shouldn’t have occurred during mass. He allowed them to substitute a poem in place of one of the readings - which was the first red flag during the mass. I forgot to add that he even waived the pre-cana. It kind of tells you why he was the only priest they could find who would marry the couple. I don’t even want to go into what’s happening to this couple now. The whole thing is so sad, especially seeing their child being affected, hurt and screwed up with this whole mess. So, I can see and understand why priests would be more reticent and cautious when dealing with unwed parents wanting to marry each other right away.

At the same time, it would be good if they were offered special and additional counseling instead of just outright refusing to marry them, should the couple truly would like to be married sacramentally.
 
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