Sacramentally Present

[JimG]

basically a Sacrament is a sign, an object, word, etc. that points to something else. You know to stop at a stop sign because the stop sign points to the action of stopping so you stop.

Sacraments point to certain actions in our spiritual lives, for example Baptism points to the cleansing of sin, the water, which cleanses points to forgiveness of sins. What makes sacraments different is that the sacrament actually takes on what it signifies. So Baptism both signifies and actually cleanses us of our sins. The Eucharist therefore both signifies and actually is the Body and Blood of Christ, just as he said at the last supper.

To put it simply what it means to be sacramentally present is that the bread and wine take on and signify Christ.

hope this helps.

The bolded part sounds a little like transignification, which is not transubstantiation.

 

[Faith1960]

The bolded part sounds a little like transignification, which is not transubstantiation.

And I was just about to say that I think I’m starting to get it.

 

[catholictiger]

The bolded part sounds a little like transignification, which is not transubstantiation.

I’m sorry it sounded that way

During the Eucharistic prayer, what is bread and wine substantially change to become the Body and Blood of Christ. The Eucharist, which is truly Christ, both signifies and actually is the Body and Blood of Christ.

 

[JimG]

I’m sorry it sounded that way

During the Eucharistic prayer, what is bread and wine substantially change to become the Body and Blood of Christ. The Eucharist, which is truly Christ, both signifies and actually is the Body and Blood of Christ.

Thanks for clarifying!

 

[Faith1960]

I’m sorry it sounded that way

During the Eucharistic prayer, what is bread and wine substantially change to become the Body and Blood of Christ. The Eucharist, which is truly Christ, both signifies and actually is the Body and Blood of Christ.

Hmmmm.

 

[catholictiger]

Hmmmm.

sorry if I confused you

a sacrament is a symbol which actually takes on what it symbolizes. It would be like a picture actually being the person it is a picture of.

 

[Faith1960]

I’m sorry it sounded that way

During the Eucharistic prayer, what is bread and wine substantially change to become the Body and Blood of Christ. The Eucharist, which is truly Christ, both signifies and actually is the Body and Blood of Christ.

I read that Jesus is present in his glorified form, so how did He hold the Eucharist at the Lat Supper when He hadnt died yet? I asked this before, maybe in another thread and it still makes no sense to me.

 

[JimG]

I read that Jesus is present in his glorified form, so how did He hold the Eucharist at the Lat Supper when He hadnt died yet? I asked this before, maybe in another thread and it still makes no sense to me.

Sorry, I didn’t mean to just kill the thread. I think the answer to your question lies in the fact that in the Eucharist Jesus is present but not his appearances (or in terms of philosophy, his accidents.) Appearances / accidents are those things that impinge on our senses; they are not the thing itself.

Now, time and location are accidents. They are not substance. We receive Jesus in the Eucharist. Whether we receive at the Last Supper or tomorrow, as far as the Eucharist is concerned, it is the same. Our location in time, our location in space, is not material, Jesus is wholly present in each Eucharist everywhere and anywhen, without being multiplied or divided.

The Eucharist reaches all points of time and space as a simultaneity (from Christ’s viewpoint, though not ours.)

 

[TheDoctor]

I read that Jesus is present in his glorified form, so how did He hold the Eucharist at the Lat Supper when He hadnt died yet? I asked this before, maybe in another thread and it still makes no sense to me.

I like to look at Sacramentally present this way:

We start out with bread, which then becomes Jesus (His body, blood, soul and divinity). Not a symbol, really Jesus. OK then, if it is really Jesus, shouldn’t the bread become a 180 pound Jew in dazzling white robes? Well, it would if Jesus was “actually” present but He is not. He is really there on the altar but He is there in the form of bread, not the form of a first century Jew. Sacramentally present to me simply means that He is there within the Sacrament as opposed to being there in His glorified body.

As for your “holding Himself” question at the last supper, remember that God exists out of time and Jesus existed at the beginning of the world. So when Jesus the man is holding the first Eucharist, Jesus the Divine Being (remember we cannot separate the two) has already been crucified, died and risen.

Sorry if this confuses you more but as many of the posters have said, we are broaching into areas that can get theologically deep.

 

[Dorothy]

I like to look at Sacramentally present this way:

We start out with bread, which then becomes Jesus (His body, blood, soul and divinity). Not a symbol, really Jesus. OK then, if it is really Jesus, shouldn’t the bread become a 180 pound Jew in dazzling white robes? Well, it would if Jesus was “actually” present but He is not. He is really there on the altar but He is there in the form of bread, not the form of a first century Jew. Sacramentally present to me simply means that He is there within the Sacrament as opposed to being there in His glorified body.

As for your “holding Himself” question at the last supper, remember that God exists out of time and Jesus existed at the beginning of the world. So when Jesus the man is holding the first Eucharist, Jesus the Divine Being (remember we cannot separate the two) has already been crucified, died and risen.

Sorry if this confuses you more but as many of the posters have said, we are broaching into areas that can get theologically deep.

Thank you for your help grasping the awesome mystery of the Eucharist!

 

[Faith1960]

I like to look at Sacramentally present this way:

We start out with bread, which then becomes Jesus (His body, blood, soul and divinity). Not a symbol, really Jesus. OK then, if it is really Jesus, shouldn’t the bread become a 180 pound Jew in dazzling white robes? Well, it would if Jesus was “actually” present but He is not. He is really there on the altar but He is there in the form of bread, not the form of a first century Jew. Sacramentally present to me simply means that He is there within the Sacrament as opposed to being there in His glorified body.

As for your “holding Himself” question at the last supper, remember that God exists out of time and Jesus existed at the beginning of the world. So when Jesus the man is holding the first Eucharist, Jesus the Divine Being (remember we cannot separate the two) has already been crucified, died and risen.

Sorry if this confuses you more but as many of the posters have said, we are broaching into areas that can get theologically deep.

Ok, I get the first part. Maybe the second. Thanks.

 

[dcana]

Originally Posted by BartholomewB forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_khaki/viewpost.gif
*This was discussed at some length, last month, on a thread entitled “What does it mean that Jesus is not literally but rather sacramentally present in the Eucharist?” on the Liturgy and Sacraments forum. Two posters in particular address the reason for using the term “sacramentally present”: Brendan (#10) and Vico (#36).

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=342340*

I still don’t get it.

I’d say He is literally present and not physically present but sacramentally. “Literally” to me means the opposite of “figuratively” or “symbolically”, IOW “really”, and that’s precisely why we refer to the “Real” Presence. What a physical presence is is easy enough to understand but I’ll leave it to the theologians here to explain a “sacramental” presence, assuming I am correct at all.