Sacraments by desire?

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Hesychios

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What is the Latin Catholic church’s official position on sacraments by desire?

I realize that there is a theory of baptism by desire, I have no idea how strongly held that belief is in the church (so I suppose that concept should be clarified) or what level of doctrine that might be.

What would be the theoretical basis for such a belief?

I am more concerned with the possibility of other sacraments, such as Annointing of the Sick, Confession or Holy Communion by desire. Is this considered possible in certain circumstances?
 
Hesychios said:
What is the Latin Catholic church’s official position on sacraments by desire?

I realize that there is a theory of baptism by desire, I have no idea how strongly held that belief is in the church (so I suppose that concept should be clarified) or what level of doctrine that might be.

What would be the theoretical basis for such a belief?

I am more concerned with the possibility of other sacraments, such as Annointing of the Sick, Confession or Holy Communion by desire. Is this considered possible in certain circumstances?
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It is Church doctrine.

CCC 1258 The Church has always held the firm conviction that those who suffer death for the sake of the faith without having received Baptism are baptized by their death for and with Christ. This Baptism of blood, like the desire for Baptism, brings about the fruits of Baptism without being a sacrament.

CCC 1259 For catechumens who die before their Baptism, their explicit desire to receive it, together with repentance for their sins, and charity, assures them the salvation that they were not able to receive through the sacrament.

CCC 1260 “Since Christ died for all, and since all men are in fact called to one and the same destiny, which is divine, we must hold that the Holy Spirit offers to all the possibility of being made partakers, in a way known to God, of the Paschal mystery.” Every man who is ignorant of the Gospel of Christ and of his Church, but seeks the truth and does the will of God in accordance with his understanding of it, can be saved. It may be supposed that such persons would have desired Baptism explicitly if they had known its necessity.
 
+There are only two of the Seven (7) Sacraments in our wonderful Apostolic Holy Roman Catholic Church which are recognized by the Church as not requiring an ordained Catholic priest . . . the Sacrament of Baptism and the Sacrament of Marriage . . . however . . . in my relatively limited understanding of the Church’s position re the requirements for a marriage to be recognized as valid . . . under Holy Mother Church’s Canon Law . . . there are very specific requirements that must be met . . . which requirements include . . . but are not limited to . . . a legal appropriate ceremony which is witnessed by others . . . which requirements significantly remove it from the “by desire” category . . .

. . . all for Jesus+
. . . thank You Sweet Spirit of our Holy God+
. . . thank you Blessed Virgin Mary+
. . . thank you Holy Mother Church+​
 
Unlike baptism which has an explicitly stated doctrine of desire as well as the fact that anyone can confer baptism, the church explicitly states that only in #1530 of the catechism that only priests can confer the anointing of the sick.

While one can have perfect contrition for mortal sins, one is supposed to seek out the sacrament of confession asap.

And as for the sacrament of the eucharist, I had beentold that if one is unable to receive, a person is encouraged to have a “spiritual” communion, however, I can find nothing about that in the catechism but much about receiving often and the importance of being in a state of grace when one does receive.

God bless
Maria
 
Hesychios said:
Ok then, good to clear that up.

In your opinion does this imply the possibility of other sacraments by desire?
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Aside from Baptism, I think the Grace of the Sacraments of Matrimony and Reconciliation can be obtained by desire.

Of course, this is on the premise that it is under extreme circumstances where valid form and/or matter cannot be realized.

Blessings,
Marduk
 
Hesychios said:
I realize that there is a theory of baptism by desire, I have no idea how strongly held that belief is in the church . . . .

What would be the theoretical basis for such a belief?
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Baptism of desire is the basis on which the Martyrs who had not yet been baptised in water are said to be saved.
 
It appears that there is no full agreement here, but that most people would say only baptism is obtainable through desire.

I am interested in the theoretical basis for the church to be able to declare a distribution of sacramental grace in this fashion is possible. Is there possibly an underlying rationale? … or should we say it is based upon old tradition or sayings of the fathers or something like that?
 
God “is not bound by his sacraments.” (Catechism of the Catholic Church, 1257)
My two cents…

This means that God, as the source of graces, is always free give the graces of any of his sacraments, to whomever he chooses, whenever he chooses, apart from the sacraments themselves.

Of course, without the external sign of the desired sacrament, there is no way of knowing (apart from a special revelation from God) that a person has actually received the graces associated with that sacrament.
 
Hesychios said:
It appears that there is no full agreement here, but that most people would say only baptism is obtainable through desire.

I am interested in the theoretical basis for the church to be able to declare a distribution of sacramental grace in this fashion is possible. Is there possibly an underlying rationale? … or should we say it is based upon old tradition or sayings of the fathers or something like that?
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In catholic answers library there is a tract with quotes from ECF. The necessity of baptism
 
Hesychios said:
It appears that there is no full agreement here, but that most people would say only baptism is obtainable through desire.
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I’m also interested in the Orthodox understanding of this. I don’t believe that there is any disagreement on this point concerning baptism. In Orthodox understanding, id those who were martyred prior to receiving water baptism have the possibility of salvation?
 
Ignatius said:
Hesychios [URL="http://forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=6719834#post6719834":
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]
It appears that there is no full agreement here, but that most people would say only baptism is obtainable through desire.
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I’m also interested in the Orthodox understanding of this. I don’t believe that there is any disagreement on this point concerning baptism. In Orthodox understanding, id those who were martyred prior to receiving water baptism have the possibility of salvation?

bump!
 
Ignatius said:
I’m also interested in the Orthodox understanding of this. I don’t believe that there is any disagreement on this point concerning baptism. In Orthodox understanding, id those who were martyred prior to receiving water baptism have the possibility of salvation?
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I wanted to make a short answer, but I can’t. This question requires a several point response.
  • Holy Orthodoxy does not share the same sense of damnation for the innocent as is generally attested in the west. Humankind is basically good but wounded, weak and fragile, so one is responsible for one’s own sin, but not the sin of Adam. Nevertheless, the way to God in this life is through Christ and His church, a baptism brings one into the life of the church and forgives the personal sins an individual may have committed beforehand.
  • Orthodox (as far as I know) traditionally recognize a baptism of blood and such martyrs who suffer and die for Christ without the opportunity of a water baptism are generally counted among the saints. As far as I know the theory hasn’t been elaborated or extended. For instance, it is not assumed that such people actually desired baptism or planned to receive it, they may have been unaware of the procedure and in the case of spontaneous conversions perhaps even ignorant of basic theology.
  • We are not to judge others, and cannot see with the eyes of God. We simply don’t know where the Holy Spirit moves, or why. Whether there are righteous or virtuous pagans is hard to say, since they are outside of the church we cannot know what God plans for them.
So I would say the Catholic concept of baptism by desire looks similar to if not the same as the Orthodox understanding of baptism of blood, but the background assumptions you and I may make about Original Sin, Grace and Salvation look a bit different and have to be nuanced.

We always have to take into account the fact that Catholic and Orthodox beliefs may look very similar on the surface, but often rely on different base assumptions.
 
Hesychios said:
I wanted to make a short answer, but I can’t. This question requires a several point response.
  • Holy Orthodoxy does not share the same sense of damnation for the innocent as is generally attested in the west. Humankind is basically good but wounded, weak and fragile, so one is responsible for one’s own sin, but not the sin of Adam. Nevertheless, the way to God in this life is through Christ and His church, a baptism brings one into the life of the church and forgives the personal sins an individual may have committed beforehand.
  • Orthodox (as far as I know) traditionally recognize a baptism of blood and such martyrs who suffer and die for Christ without the opportunity of a water baptism are generally counted among the saints. As far as I know the theory hasn’t been elaborated or extended. For instance, it is not assumed that such people actually desired baptism or planned to receive it, they may have been unaware of the procedure and in the case of spontaneous conversions perhaps even ignorant of basic theology.
  • We are not to judge others, and cannot see with the eyes of God. We simply don’t know where the Holy Spirit moves, or why. Whether there are righteous or virtuous pagans is hard to say, since they are outside of the church we cannot know what God plans for them.
So I would say the Catholic concept of baptism by desire looks similar to if not the same as the Orthodox understanding of baptism of blood, but the background assumptions you and I may make about Original Sin, Grace and Salvation look a bit different and have to be nuanced.

We always have to take into account the fact that Catholic and Orthodox beliefs may look very similar on the surface, but often rely on different base assumptions.
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Thanks Hesychios. Yes, to my understanding that is exactly the same as Catholic teaching. The stain of Original Sin being the only exception. We also do not know what God will do with those outside the Church through lack of knowledge, but we do know that Redemption and Salvation are in the Church entered through Baptism.
 
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