Sacraments for Aliens

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BornInMarch said:
Interestingly enough, according to this National Catholic Register article, Pope Francis himself implied that he would baptize aliens if they asked.
Pope Francis said, during a morning Mass in May 2014, “If an expedition of Martians arrives and some of them come to us and if one of them says: ‘Me, I want to be baptized!’ what would happen?” He said that even if these hypothetical beings were “green men, with a long nose and big ears, like children draw … who are we to close doors?”
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He was NOT speaking about baptizing aliens. Much less was he making a theological point about the possibility of baptizing non-humans.

He was speaking to children and making an extended metaphor (or would the word be simile?) about how we need to be willing to accept and embrace PEOPLE who look differently from us.
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BornInMarch said:
So if the Pope says “aliens are held to human moral codes and can join the Catholic Church”, and the infallibility of this is accepted by the majority of the church’s clergy and laity, what would you do?

I’m not opening that can of worms.
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Not even the Pope and bishops can change revealed truth.

Your question is similar to asking “what if some Pope wanted to add a 4th person to the Blessed Trinity?”

It’s a non-question, theologically speaking.

No Pope is able to do what you’re suggesting.
 
mVitus said:
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porthos11:
As for Luke Skywalker and Darth Vader, well, the question is moot since we all know Star Wars is heresy.
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I’ve heard that the Star Wars lore for humans involves some Earthlings getting sucked in a wormhole sending them back in time to the Star Wars galaxy. So Darth Vader and Luke Skywalker could get baptized.
BornInMarch said:
Where do you draw the line with “what is assumed”?
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At human nature. He opened the door to Jew and Gentilw (seen clearly via Scripture), not Jew, Gentile, and Martian.
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Star Wars is fiction, and heresy.

The real truth is that any human aliens out there were once taken from Earth by different advanced races: the Ancients, the Goa’uld and the Ori, mainly through the stargate network. This means that other human aliens can be baptized because they are descendants of Adam. This includes races like the Abydonians, the Jaffa, the Tollans. Non-human races such as the Asgard are not eligible for baptism. One could probably even argue that a Goa’uld host held against his will, while technically eligible for baptism, should not be baptized while under the control of a symbiote, since his free will is impeded. On the flip side, there should be no problem baptizing a Tok’ra, with the understanding that only the host is being baptized, not the symbiote, who is ineligible.
 
I haven’t read it (I’ve only read a handful of Star Trek novels over the years), but I understand that there is a Star Trek novel out there that features a Mother Superior, who I think might have been part Betazoid, and had some sort of interstellar apostolate in the 24th century…
 
porthos11 said:
Star Wars is fiction, and heresy.
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Yes it is, it would fall before might of the combined forces of the Immortal Emperor of Mankind. To imply otherwise is a Heresy and will result in a visit from your friendly local Imperial Inquisitor for re-education.

(On a more serious note I don’t have a horse in this race, just wanted to add some extra geekiness to proceedings.)
 
My thought process.
porthos11 said:
Star Wars is fiction, and heresy.
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😱 What kind of … do we have on this forum?
porthos11 said:
The real truth is that any human aliens out there were once taken from Earth by different advanced races: the Ancients, the Goa’uld and the Ori,
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:confused: … Ah… 🤣

You had me worried for a moment. (After certain discussions on this forum, you never know.)
 
Well, one of the Jesuit Scientists at our telescope site in Arizona, wrote an update for the Pontiff…”THE EXTRATERRESTIAL IS MY BROTHER!”
I’d love to read it.
Anyway, God created all things. We accept,we are not alone. The Vatican gave allowance for our not being the only created species in space. We have more galaxies, etc.
If alien are conscious beings w a soul, why could he not accept Jesus and Christianity??
Contingency of an intelligent lifeform w a soul…
God bless you
Tweedlealice
 
I guess one day, we’ll find out! I understand the covenant w man. I guess I thinking that a Creation in a different form was a creation.
But, if we failed in Eden, & were sent out, as a punishment. Jesus came to redeem us. The unknown critters in other galaxies, may not have been disobedient, as we were. Hence, they are in good standing w God. That is if they have passed thei test. I’m grtting a headache. So many possibilities.
Answer, is no to sacraments. The sacraments are in our story. They have there’s…
I think I got it
Thanks
Tweedlealice
 
All this is speculation. That is assuming that the sentient beings were affected by the fall of Adam and were in the state of original sin.
 
tweedlealice said:
If alien are conscious beings w a soul, why could he not accept Jesus and Christianity??
…
Tweedlealice
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Because God became Man in the person of Christ.

It’s about this idea in theology that we call the Incarnation.

It is the very foundation of our Christian faith. God became man.

He did not become a Martian or a Klingon or anything else.

Only human nature was assumed. Only human nature has been redeemed.

Sentiment doesn’t change that.
 
tweedlealice said:
I guess one day, we’ll find out! I understand the covenant w man. I guess I thinking that a Creation in a different form was a creation.
But, if we failed in Eden, & were sent out, as a punishment. Jesus came to redeem us. The unknown critters in other galaxies, may not have been disobedient, as we were. Hence, they are in good standing w God. That is if they have passed thei test. I’m grtting a headache. So many possibilities.
Answer, is no to sacraments. The sacraments are in our story. They have there’s…
I think I got it
Thanks
Tweedlealice
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Yes. (At least, for the most part).
 
Yes, and Jesus has two nature’s, not three or four or five, so it seems impossible that the same salvation story played out on another planet.
 
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(From Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal online comic)
 
FrDavid96 said:
He was NOT speaking about baptizing aliens. Much less was he making a theological point about the possibility of baptizing non-humans.

He was speaking to children and making an extended metaphor (or would the word be simile?) about how we need to be willing to accept and embrace PEOPLE who look differently from us.
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Right - the pope was using an exaggeration to make a point, that no human being should be denied the sacraments simply because they are not like us. What we should actually do with aliens is…kind of a moot point until we find any.

Interestingly, some early theologians wrestled with this regarding various mythological creatures, such as centaurs. As I recall, they came to roughly the same conclusion - if we actually find any centaurs we’ll figure it out then.
 
DarkLight said:
Right - the pope was using an exaggeration to make a point, that no human being should be denied the sacraments simply because they are not like us. What we should actually do with aliens is…kind of a moot point until we find any.

Interestingly, some early theologians wrestled with this regarding various mythological creatures, such as centaurs. As I recall, they came to roughly the same conclusion - if we actually find any centaurs we’ll figure it out then.
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On the one hand, yes. It’s a moot point until we encounter intelligent life out there (if ever).

But it doesn’t change what we already know. It doesn’t matter if that intelligent life is found on some previously-undiscovered continent (as some of the early Christians did ponder); or some distant planet.

We know, as a matter of revealed truth, that only human nature was assumed and only human nature is redeemed. Discovering aliens will not (cannot) change the Incarnation.
 
The philosopher in me wants to argue what the limits of that are - say, if we discovered some cro-magnons somewhere living on the planet. Of course that is entirely pointless speculation…
 
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