Sacraments? We don't need no stinkin' sacraments

[bellesjoy]

Lux et Veritas, very good to hear you have such a good pastor who sees his obligations to teach faithfully. So many parishes are not as lucky.

We have had the blessing of having our Bishop teach every Tues. evening for an hour and a half on a variety of topic over the past 5 yrs! Bishop Vasa has taught the entire Catechism of the Catholic Church, line by line, various encyclicals of the Popes, topics that pertain to what he is implimenting in our diocese and answers any questions about the faith. He takes his role as apostle and teacher as one of his most important duties and makes adult catechisis one of his major goals.

Unfortunately, our pastors in our local parish do not and at many times are in direct odds with what he teaches. Changes are coming.

 

[Chatter163]

Many people say and apparently believe that the Catholic Church is moving towards a belief system closer to that proposed by Martin Luther. That may or may not be true…

No, it is NOT true. There is no maybe about it.

 

[Lux_et_veritas]

bellesjoy:

Lux et Veritas, very good to hear you have such a good pastor who sees his obligations to teach faithfully. So many parishes are not as lucky.

We have had the blessing of having our Bishop teach every Tues. evening for an hour and a half on a variety of topic over the past 5 yrs! Bishop Vasa has taught the entire Catechism of the Catholic Church, line by line, various encyclicals of the Popes, topics that pertain to what he is implimenting in our diocese and answers any questions about the faith. He takes his role as apostle and teacher as one of his most important duties and makes adult catechisis one of his major goals.

Unfortunately, our pastors in our local parish do not and at many times are in direct odds with what he teaches. Changes are coming.

While some pastors and parish priests are over-taxed, and would probably love to spend more time teaching RCIA and seminars, in some cases, it is almost impossible. But, I believe more needs to be done to get lay people out of the sanctuary and into the offices to handle the administrative things that keep the priest from doing this related directly to growth of the flock. This would be so helpful.

On the other hand, are priests who are simply not comfortable teaching the basics of the faith, line by line, because they themselves cannot accept it all in its most basic form. For this reason, they keep themselves “busy” with other things.

 

[arieh0310]

bellesjoy:

We have had the blessing of having our Bishop teach every Tues. evening for an hour and a half on a variety of topic over the past 5 yrs! Bishop Vasa has taught the entire Catechism of the Catholic Church, line by line, various encyclicals of the Popes, topics that pertain to what he is implimenting in our diocese and answers any questions about the faith. He takes his role as apostle and teacher as one of his most important duties and makes adult catechisis one of his major goals.

Bishop Vasa is the MAN!!! You are definately blessed to have him as your bishop and to teach you in person. Every article that he writes is impressive for its fidelity to Church teaching and its clarity.

 

[rwoehmke]

Lux_et_veritas:

I can easily see how the masses no longer feel a need to go to confession because many believe exactly as the woman taught - that confession is more symbolic than anything. It is hardly symbolic. This is the same problem we have today with the Eucharist - people looking at it as a symbol, not the Real Presence.

The basis for this problem may actually lie in the definition of a sacrament from the Baltimore Catechism. “…an outward sign(symbol?) instituted by Christ to give grace.” The definition is perfect, but without expansion can very easily be misunderstood. They are after all the observable actions, words that point to a deeper reality which is often overlooked.

Lux I would have to admit that after reading about RCIA programs across this country that a lot of folks are getting a terrible quantity of mis-information. Blessed indeed are those who have a priest or deacon steeped in the Faith and loyal to the Church as instructors. Our parish has been fairly blessed by having well educated (in the basics of Catholicism) laity to handle RCIA, but there have been short periods in the past when we have hired a DRE who was downright destructive in the classroom. They often had a Masters of Theology but fortunately did not last long.

 

[steve99]

Lux_et_veritas:

Steve, when the woman told the RCIA candidates that the Sacrament of Reconciliation was merely a celebration of that forgiveness, she watered it down - either through ignorance or obstinance. It could easily lead a convert, or even a Catholic to think that they do not need to use the Sacrament of Penance in order to get back the grace necessary to receive the Body of Christ and to be in communion with the Church.

It’s very dangerous, and from my viewpoint, a protestant way of looking at confession.

I can easily see how the masses no longer feel a need to go to confession because many believe exactly as the woman taught - that confession is more symbolic than anything. It is hardly symbolic. This is the same problem we have today with the Eucharist - people looking at it as a symbol, not the Real Presence.

Yes, sorry I was diverting from the topic of this thread.

I’ve already broken one of my new years resolutions to think more before dashing off a reply to some post.

 

[palmas85]

Chatter163:

No, it is NOT true. There is no maybe about it.

Having actually attended Lutheran services, I can attest that the similarities are striking. Whether by accident or design, they are striking.

 

[Lux_et_veritas]

rwoehmke:

Lux I would have to admit that after reading about RCIA programs across this country that a lot of folks are getting a terrible quantity of mis-information. Blessed indeed are those who have a priest or deacon steeped in the Faith and loyal to the Church as instructors. Our parish has been fairly blessed by having well educated (in the basics of Catholicism) laity to handle RCIA, but there have been short periods in the past when we have hired a DRE who was downright destructive in the classroom. They often had a Masters of Theology but fortunately did not last long.

Many, many Catholic Universities are more “Catholic” than Catholic in their teaching.

I was going to get a BS in Theology years ago at a local seminary and dropped my intro-theology course just 3 weeks into the class. They were using Fr. Richard McBrien’s “Catholicism” book, which was publicly lambasted by the USCCB. They cited a litany of problems with his views on various subjects and specifically stated it should NOT be used in introductory theology courses. But, it was and one Catholic newspaper to which my father subscribed called it out. Prior to that, I had been debating my dad on things he knew were “off” and when I realized the potential for corrupting me, got out. What helped was that the priest professor, on that third night, made a snive remark aimed at people who pray rosaries. That was the final straw.

Thankfully, the seminary in my area is turning around and there are some solid people there now. Prior, it was a progressive-dissident machine.

If this woman came from a university with a progressive-dissident bent, it doesn’t surprise me. It would be interesting to know what university her Masters was in.