Sacraments

[Seamus_Sully]

Biblically speaking, sacrament is an outward sign made by Christ to give grace?

Is SIGN of grace?

Does SIGN cause grace?

 

[Fidelis]

*Most *signs do not cause anything. Stop signs, for example, don’t make you stop; they only warn you to do something: apply the brake and stop your vehicle.

Sacraments, on the other hand, are a different **kind **of sign, in that they actually effect (do) what they signify. They are a visible sign of an invisible reality.

From Fr. Hardon’s online Pocket Catholic Dictionary:

**SACRAMENT. **A sensible [visible] sign, instituted by Jesus Christ, by which invisible grace and inward sanctification are communicated to the soul. The essential elements of a sacrament of the New Law are institution by Christ the God-man during his visible stay on earth, and a sensibly perceptible rite that actually confers the supernatural grace it symbolizes. In a broad sense every external sign of internal divine blessing is a sacrament. And in this sense there were already sacraments in the Old Law, such as the practice of circumcision. But, as the Council of Trent defined, these ancient rites differed essentially from the sacraments of the New Law, they did not really contain the grace they signified, nor was the fullness of grace yet available through visible channels merited and established by the Savior. (Etym. Latin sacramentum, oath, solemn obligation; from sacrare, to set apart as sacred, consecrate.)
therealpresence.org/cgi-bin/getdefinition.pl

 

[Seamus_Sully]

Fidelis

Does the sign cause the grace?

Or, does the grace cause the sign?

Sorry about not comprehending your post. I did read it carefully.

Sorry!!

Thanks

 

[Verbum]

Hi Seamus,

For example, in baptism, the sign is water (cleansing) and, together with the words) actually washes away your sin.

Verbum

 

[JimO]

I see it as the Sacrament is a physical, visible representation of a spiritual reality. The Eucharist appears as bread and wine, which are the physical accidents, but metaphusically it is the Body and Blood of Jesus. If we didn’t have the bread and wine, we couldn’t physically consume the Eucharist and could not take His Real Presence into our whole being.

We encounter God with the whole person - body, intellect, emotions, will, and spirit. Thus, the Sacraments were designed by God for us to encounter Him at all levels of our being. If they were only spiritual encounters, there would be no need for the physical signs - water, oil, bread, and wine. If they were only intellectual encounters, we would only need words.

Thus, the signs don’t confer the grace, but are a part of the overall conference of the Sacrament.

Sorry for the rambling, but I hope this helps.

 

[Fidelis]

Fidelis
Does the sign cause the grace? Or, does the grace cause the sign?

Neither, actually.

Let’s take baptism. We are commanded by Jesus to perform the sign (pouring water over the head and invoking the Trinity). When we perform this sign, intending to do what the Church teaches, God himself, though the power of the Holy Spirit and in view of the merits earned by Jesus Christ on the Cross, causes the regeneration (or being “born again”) that Christ intended to be transmitted though these signs.

The reason we need sensible or visible signs at all is because humans are a unique composite of both spirit and body (unlike angels and animals). Our bodies are part of our means of salvation, and God use both physical means ans spiritual means to effect his plans. If you doubt this, meditate on a crucifix.

 

[Ruthie]

Hi, Seamus,

Your question resembles “Which came first? the chicken or the egg?” and it’s only a little easier to answer.

The Glossary in my Catechism says:

“SACRAMENT: an efficacious sign of grace, instituted by Christ and entrusted to the Church,by which divine life is dispensed to us through the work of the Holy Spirit.”

MW Online defines *efficacious *as “having the power to produce a desired effect <an efficacious remedy>” m-w.com/dictionary/efficacious

The Sacraments were “instituted by Christ.” We receive the benefits of divine life “through the work of the Holy Spirit.”

So the Sacraments will not be effective in the absence of Jesus and the HS. The graces come from them, through the rite; not from the rite itself.

So the answer to your question is, the grace comes from Jesus, through the Sacrament. The rite is necessary - but the grace comes from God.

A secular example would be: I buy my broccoli (grace) at the grocery, but the broccoli originates in a garden. I must go to the grocery, or the farmers’ market, to get my broccoli (receive the Sacrament). But I actually receive the broccoli through the work of the Gardener.

Hope that helps…

Ruthie

 

[Seamus_Sully]

Thanks!

I believe I understand it a little better.

Thanks!!!

Oh, I will take more help!!!

 

[Grace_Angel]

Thanks!

I believe I understand it a little better.

Thanks!!!

Oh, I will take more help!!!

Seamus, I think that the most oft proffered definition for sacrament is that “it is a visible sign instituted by Christ to give grace” (Council of Trent). This definition states what sacraments are,i.e, visible signs (bread, wine, oils, water). Who instituted them, Jesus, and the reason “to give grace”. If we just stop here its possible to be happy with such a definition but one can almost cheat oneself of the full richness of the sacramental meaning. Sacraments are the method by which inner transformation and sanctification is achieved. The elements used and the words applied to each of the individual sacraments mysteriously (sacramentum) work to confer the effect which they signify.
Without the powerful “Word” of God, the elements remain just what they are. It is the Word, (spoken) the action together with the elements which effect the sacrament.
The truth of the sacraments is that they are occassions of grace and indeed are the actual causation of grace. The activity and words proper when in operation and in cooperation communicate grace to the recipient and effect the grace. J.T. O’Connor in The Hidden Manna, says “It is a spiritual contact made concrete in word and sign through the sacrament. In them matter is changed with the power of Christ’s activity upon us.”
The work of the sacrament is to enable the person (whether consciously or unconsciously)to move forward towards a closer relationship with God through Christ Jesus.
Christ Jesus instituted the sacraments and tied them to grace, and to the life lived in God. God’s mercy, hesed, redemption, grace, everything for our spiritual life is tied to the sacraments, and was proclaimed first as a type and then more clearly throughout the history and story of the people of Israel.
The sacraments actually constitute the very life and heart of the Catholic Church and its faith and it is this that makes the catholic faith different, and so unique from the other christian denominations.
The term itself Sacramentum actually predates Christianity and was known in antiquity to mean “oath.” An “oath” differs from a promise because in ancient times when an “oath” was cited it meant that a god was called to be present (witness) in a transaction. It had more validity. The oath requires the swearing by “Almighty God” and to accompany oaths there are consequences. The OT with its covenants and oaths is a record of God’s dealings with humanity and humanity’s weakness requiring many covenants. The Oath (Sacramentum) transforms a transaction into a covenant which is what God does. He covenanats with “man” He swears to His own faithfulness.
Throughout the history of God’s dealings with humanity, covenants partners (God and man) man has failed his part of the bargain. The Old covenants made with human intermediaries (Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, David) were doomed to fail because the sacramentums (oaths) were sworn by human individuals who are marked with a flawed nature.
At particular points in His life Jesus swore a particular sacramentum. His Baptism (he instituted Baptism) Transfiguration (prepartion for the journey to death and confirmation of sonship.On Holy Thursday He instituted the Eucharist, food for the journey and Holy Orders, (washing of feet) servant of servants and with this act instituted forever the priesthood according to His own style. Priests of the new covenant were to serve and not be served.
Anointing of the sick He instituted when Jesus is prepared and anointed for his own human death. The sacrament of penanace He instituted when He breathed on His apostles (Jn 22:22-23, thus giving them the power to forgive sins in His name. And at Pentecost He betrothed Himself to His Bride, the Church, Matrimony is established as a Sacrament. The union between Him and His Bride (church) is a sign of the union between a man and wife.
Sacraments are God’s answer to His son’s promise to be faithful even unto death, and are wrapped up with an oath made for an on our behalf. He makes up the deficiencies so that He may present to the Father the redeemed sons and daughters.
The early Church Fathers, spoke of the sacraments as the most important aspects in God’s economy of salvation.
Jesus swore the definitive sacramentum (oath)on our behalf and left behind sacraments as a means by which we can source continuously His grace.
Sacraments initiate us, nourish us, and prepare us for the time when we (Jesus and I) encounter the Father not in sorrow becauses of promises broken but with joy because in and through Jesus all promises have been kept.
Seamus I hope this helps it is a very hugely edited paper I wrote as part of a Masters.
God Bless
Grace Angel.

 

[Nita]

Does the sign cause the grace?

Or, does the grace cause the sign?

Just a brief answer to your questions?

It is God who “causes” the grace. He binds this grace to the Sacraments so that, when the a particular Sacrament is carried out, the grace bound to that Sacrament flows into the recipient’s soul.

Nita

 

[Fidelis]

It is God who “causes” the grace. He binds this grace to the Sacraments so that, when the a particular Sacrament is carried out, the grace bound to that Sacrament flows into the recipient’s soul.

Very well stated, Nita! Thanks for this answer.

 

[Seamus_Sully]

All of you are most helpful, thanks!!!

I have another one that I cannot get me mind around.

Hebrews 11, 1 “Substance of things hoped for.”

Faith is the substance of things hoped for.

How are faith and hope related?

Is faith first?

Is hope first?

Does hope hold faith?

Does faith hold hope?

I hope these question are okay.

THANKS!!!

 

[Fidelis]

Of course it’s OK for you to ask, but don’t you think you should start a new thread on it so more people will see it and get a chance to answer?

 

[Damascus]

Hi S. S. !!!

I wanted to post but the big hitters did it all. I am hoping you can start another thread so I might be able to post on it. I am a simple person but I tell it like I see it.

Take care and keep asking questions!

 

[Seamus_Sully]

Damascus

No person has addressed the hope and faith questions.

POST HERE, PLEASE!!!

 

[Seamus_Sully]

Biblically, the Bible use many terms for God and God’s names.

To list a few examples: Father, Love, Judge, King, Shepherd, Brother, Almighty, Creator and more.

Have these been graded? Or, Is there a gradation?

When we are younger in our spiritual life, Is God Shepherd?

Or, is there a developmental levels based on our relationship with God?

Has the Bible or saints explained that way?

Is this related to Jacob’s ladder?

Is this related to God’s mountain/home?

Is this related to the Transfiguration?

Is this related to Mt Thorny or Horeb (Sinai)?

THANKS!!!

 

[Nita]

Biblically, the Bible use many terms for God and God’s names.

To list a few examples: Father, Love, Judge, King, Shepherd, Brother, Almighty, Creator and more.

Have these been graded? Or, Is there a gradation?

When we are younger in our spiritual life, Is God Shepherd?

Or, is there a developmental levels based on our relationship with God?

Has the Bible or saints explained that way?

Is this related to Jacob’s ladder?

Is this related to God’s mountain/home?

Is this related to the Transfiguration?

Is this related to Mt Thorny or Horeb (Sinai)?

THANKS!!!

Hello Seamus,

I think the various names are ways of expressing various attributes of God; various ways in which we can experience His love. All are accurate at all times and we should meditate on them all in our search to know God. Depending on circumstances going on in our life tho, we may choose to focus on one particular title temporarily. (Eg. If we find ourselves troubled by all the evil taking place in the world today, we may want to focus on God Almighty - which reassures us that God is in control.) So, I’d say the title we tend to favor has more to do with circumstances in our life rather than level of spiritual development.

Nita

 

[Seamus_Sully]

Nita:

Thanks!!!
I listed just a few ideas in an ascending order, the sinner at the lower end of the ladder or mountain. I did not know how to ask these questions earlier today, but here goes!

I hope that this makes a little sense.

Would St. Thomas in his later years see God as a loving and beautiful spouse?

Would a mature Christian who is in a Dark Night be at a place without any image (unknowable)?

Would a college student who really wants to love God see Jesus as a Brother?

Would the young child in grade school years see God as Shepherd?

When the sinner that returns see God a full of mercy?

Would the returning sinner see God as the father waiting at home?

Would the sinner who knows he is a sinner see God as JUDGE?

 

[Mintaka]

They might. No way to tell.

What can I say? When we love someone, we give him or her a lot of nicknames. Good Shepherd has a lot more dignity and is more descriptive than Pooky or Punkin, fortunately…

 

[Damascus]

Hebrews 11:1-3
Faith always has been the mark of God’s servants, from the beginning of the world. Where the principle is planted by the regenerating Spirit of God, it will cause the truth to be received, concerning justification by the sufferings and merits of Christ. And the same things that are the object of our hope, are the object of our faith. It is a firm persuasion and expectation, that God will perform all he has promised to us in Christ. This persuasion gives the soul to enjoy those things now; it gives them a subsistence or reality in the soul, by the first-fruits and foretastes of them. Faith proves to the mind, the reality of things that cannot be seen by the bodily eye. It is a full approval of all God has revealed, as holy, just, and good. This view of faith is explained by many examples of persons in former times, who obtained a good report, or an honourable character in the word of God. Faith was the principle of their holy obedience, remarkable services, and patient sufferings. The Bible gives the most true and exact account of the origin of all things, and we are to believe it, and not to wrest the Scripture account of the creation, because it does not suit with the differing fancies of men. All that we see of the works of creation, were brought into being by the command of God.

This is merely a commentary on Hebrews 11:1-3 by Matthew Henry- Hebrew OT WLC consonants only

I am not sure how this fits in with the other questions you have asked. You mentioned several things but I am not sure where you are going with this and Jacobs ladder?

How do different people see God the Father and Jesus in their lives ultimately is a reflection on their state in their walk and where/what they are doing to respond to God’s invitation…
Could you give me a better idea as to what you are asking?