Sacred Heart Icons?

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Pani_Rose

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Hi Everyone,
I was asked about these icons, especially the one with Christ in a steel blue/green cloak. I have a good idea of what I think of them, but what do you say. Also, I know the Sacred Heart does not appear in Orthodox/EC iconography, then with it all encased within a tear drop, also the postioning of the hands, with a scroll? Oh well, to me it is just a very odd, definately Latinized, but I am sure the heart and thoughts of the monk doing so were well ment. - Thanks!
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Ukrainian Catholics and Rusyn Catholics in Europe have absolutely no problems with devotions to the Sacred Heart and ikons of the Sacred Heart.

It used to be so nice to hear “O Svatije Srdce Isuse, pomiluje Nas” during the candle light procession at Mt. St. Macrina:byzsoc:
 
I am sorry, I never said I had a problem with devotion to the Sacred Heart. It seems to be a bit odd in an icon that is all, but like I said, it is done from a Latin perspective.

It is kind of like the Romanian glass icon of the Trinity, giving the Enthroned Trinity three faces. However, it is an expression of the culture.
 
Pani_Rose said:
However, it is an expression of the culture.
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Not really, it’s an expression of faith and devotion.

An expression of culture would be having Mother of God and Child dressed in traditional Hutzul folk dress.

Many of the original Eastern Catholic churches had life-size ikons of the Sacred Heart and side chaples complete with candles dedicated to the Sacred Heart.

There are some that still survive today despite those who want them removed because they are “too western”…:byzsoc:
 
I was told that the East does not do organs. I was told this at a Ruthinian parish (which, as we all know, is not Orthodox). Isn’t this somehow…insulting or desecration?
 
adstrinity said:
I was told that the East does not do organs. I was told this at a Ruthinian parish (which, as we all know, is not Orthodox). Isn’t this somehow…insulting or desecration?
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Neither. The Rubrics written by Sts Basil and John do not permit instruments, only the human voice.

As a musician, I tell you in truth: Only a synthesizer comes close to the power and versatility of the human voice.

It is no desecration to pray with music, but it is forbidden by the rubrics of the liturgy since the 4th century.

I have been to several othodox parishes, including Russian, Antiochian, and Coptic… and none of them use instruments, either.

The only churches I’ve seen using instruments are western rites and Maronite. (But then I’ve only seen western rites, maronite, byzantine, and coptic…)

So while you were not told correctly, you were not told incorrectly either. The Ruthenians, like other Byzantines, properly does not do instrumental music in its liturgies.
 
I was told that the East does not do organs. I was told this at a Ruthinian parish (which, as we all know, is not Orthodox). Isn’t this somehow…insulting or desecration?

**I assume you mean such devotions as Sacred Heart, not musical instruments.

According to one of the Ecumenical Councils, Chalcedon, I think, we are forbidden to adore Our Lord’s humanity apart from His Divinity, and vice versa.

How much more, then, is it inconsistent with Eastern theology to take an organ of Our Lord’s physical person, and adore it in isolation?**
 
bpbasilphx said:
According to one of the Ecumenical Councils, Chalcedon, I think, we are forbidden to adore Our Lord’s humanity apart from His Divinity, and vice versa.

How much more, then, is it inconsistent with Eastern theology to take an organ of Our Lord’s physical person, and adore it in isolation?
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Of course neither of the Icons above or the Moleben to the Sacred Heart do this. Byzantine Chistians could be accused of the same thing with the Holy Cross. If adoring Christ’s Sacred Heart is wrong how much more so an inanimate object? The accusation of Nestorianism and adoration of an organ is a gross misrepresentation of the devotion to the Sacred Heart just as accusing Eastern Christians of idolatry due to their adoration of the Holy Cross would be.

Fr. Deacon Lance
 
Aramis said:
Neither. The Rubrics written by Sts Basil and John do not permit instruments, only the human voice.

As a musician, I tell you in truth: Only a synthesizer comes close to the power and versatility of the human voice.

It is no desecration to pray with music, but it is forbidden by the rubrics of the liturgy since the 4th century.

I have been to several othodox parishes, including Russian, Antiochian, and Coptic… and none of them use instruments, either.

The only churches I’ve seen using instruments are western rites and Maronite. (But then I’ve only seen western rites, maronite, byzantine, and coptic…)

So while you were not told correctly, you were not told incorrectly either. The Ruthenians, like other Byzantines, properly does not do instrumental music in its liturgies.
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LOL, yeah I don’t think he was talking about the pipe organ, but thanks for that explanation above. I never knew that instruments weren’t allowed in some Orthodox churches.
 
Speaking as one with an undergraduate minor in organ, I can assure you that musical instruments just would not fit with the Byzantine Divine Liturgy.
 
I’m an EO and I’ve always wondered the significance the RCC places on Sacred Heart? I’ve seen churches named as well as various religious pics of Christ with an illuminated heart etc.

Any feedback would be appreciated.

Thanks
 
It’s a symbol of His love for us. It’s also used to represent a quality of the person–you might here someone say “that so-and-so has a good heart” or “that person has a lot of heart.” It’s kind of like the heart. The heart can also be a synecdoche, or a part which represents the whole.

Here’s an overly-complicated article which, once you wade through it, is actually decent help:

newadvent.org/cathen/07163a.htm
 
bpbasilphx said:
I was told that the East does not do organs. I was told this at a Ruthinian parish (which, as we all know, is not Orthodox). Isn’t this somehow…insulting or desecration?

**I assume you mean such devotions as Sacred Heart, not musical instruments.

According to one of the Ecumenical Councils, Chalcedon, I think, we are forbidden to adore Our Lord’s humanity apart from His Divinity, and vice versa.

How much more, then, is it inconsistent with Eastern theology to take an organ of Our Lord’s physical person, and adore it in isolation?**
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we in adoring the Sacred Heart are really adoring God’s endless love that is what the Sacred Heart represents
 
student_of_God said:
we in adoring the Sacred Heart are really adoring God’s endless love that is what the Sacred Heart represents
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But you can understand how this is strange if carried logically to dismembered christ devotion:

Adore his brain - adore his divine wisdom

Adore his right arm - adore his strength

Adore his bile bladder - adore his just wrath

Why not just adore christ who has love, wisdom, wrath and strength??
 
But you can understand how this is strange if carried logically to dismembered christ devotion

**This is basically the Orthodox viewpoint (and objection).

It was expressed by one Orthodox hierarch to Abp. Andrew Sheptytsky.**
 
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