Sacred magisterium

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First off I am a former Fundamentalist who turned Catholic. I understand that one of the Catholic church’s claim to fame was the 2000 yrs. of magisteriums that have ***never ***been “over turned.” I understand that these are considered “sacred magisterium” which are things like Mary’s assumption, Immaculate Conception of Mary, etc… (I fully understand these are the non-negotiables if your a Catholic, but what if your **not **a Catholic). Are these are examples of faith that can not be debated, because no one has anyway of disproving this or proving this, it’s simply a belief of the Cathoilc church.

I guess I was just questioning the strength of this “argument” for the Church w/ my protestant friends (as a means of evangelizing and I got backed into a corner and I don’t know what to say). Are their any sacred magisteriums that have been and can be legitimately debated by way of evidence or they simply beliefs? If there are please list some of them.

Thanks,
Joe
 
Along the lines you’re suggesting, Joe, but a slightly different approach, that might be effective, would be to address the issue of apostolic succession.

In the Gospels, Christ establishes a clear hierarchy (the chosen apostles are placed in a leadership position). This hierarchy, in turn, continues in the Book of Acts, and the Epistles. Finally, provision is made for a continuation of the hierarchical establishment put in place by Christ after the death of the apostles.

Then, turning to the post-apostolic period of the very early church fathers, we see apostolic succession lived out by the various bishops, and notably, in the Church of Rome.

Here are a couple of articles that flesh out the above sketch:

Apostolicity (Catholic Encyclopedia)

Apostolic Succession (Catholic Answers)

I think, in these sorts of conversations, it’s best to start from a clearly scriptural basis - ground upon which both you and your Protestant friends stand - and then work your way up from there.
 
I have written a paper on the my Catholic conversion (one major point being Apostalic Succession), but this was just another one of my points in my paper.
 
I have written a paper on the my Catholic conversion (one major point being Apostalic Succession)…
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Well, then you’re all set!

But getting back to your original post, one issue that I think you could address relating to the magisterium would be the canon of scripture, which was determined in the late 4th and early 5th century in a series of Church councils approved by the bishop of Rome.

I don’t have a link handy, but there are a number of good articles on the web that address this from a Catholic apologetics perspective (and I’m sure elsewhere on this board if you do a little searching). I’m sure catholic.com has something, as does the Envoy site, and Dave Armstrong.

It’s a very powerful argument. It both refutes the Protestant assumption of the Bible alone as the sole rule of faith (because the Bible alone *can’t *tell you what books make up the Bible, the theory is therefore inherently self-contradictory), AND demonstrates that your Protestant friends, in accepting the canon of Scripture that they do (at least the New Testament canon), have relied, and must continue to rely, on the authority of the Catholic Church.

Now, if they are willing to accept the authority of the Catholic Church on such a central and important matter as the canon of Scripture, why would they reject its authority in other areas? It makes no sense.

P.S. I just noticed your link after writing the above, and am about to sign off for the night. I’ll take a look at your paper, and get back to you on that.
 
jeckert79 said:
If you’d like to read my paper it is under the blog section “I’m a Catholic”: www.myspace.com/superjetjoe

Curious to hear what you think!
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That’s a nice piece of work, and you did indeed cover apostolic succession. Good job. I also liked the piece you wrote on prayer to saints. And am glad to see you found your way back to the Catholic Church.

T
 
jeckert79 said:
First off I am a former Fundamentalist who turned Catholic. I understand that one of the Catholic church’s claim to fame was the 2000 yrs. of magisteriums that have ***never ***been “over turned.” I understand that these are considered “sacred magisterium” which are things like Mary’s assumption, Immaculate Conception of Mary, etc… (I fully understand these are the non-negotiables if your a Catholic, but what if your **not **a Catholic). Are these are examples of faith that can not be debated, because no one has anyway of disproving this or proving this, it’s simply a belief of the Cathoilc church.

I guess I was just questioning the strength of this “argument” for the Church w/ my protestant friends (as a means of evangelizing and I got backed into a corner and I don’t know what to say). Are their any sacred magisteriums that have been and can be legitimately debated by way of evidence or they simply beliefs? If there are please list some of them.

Thanks,
Joe
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Hi,

Have you seen the site Scripture Catholic? (Mary verses and explanations are found specifically here.) It uses scripture as well as early Church fathers to “Prove” these things.

For myself when it comes to Mary, her virginity and immaculate conception I find the arguments of her and the comments in scripture as well as the early Church fathers having to do with her being the New Eve and the Ark of the Covenant using typology from scripture to be very compelling.

I come from a fundmentalist bible alone kind of Church also if that helps at all.

God Bless,
Maria
 
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