Sacred Oral and Written Tradition

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Boy, are you lucky JustAsking4! 👍

I am also a Roman Catholic Writer! So please feel free to also quote me next time:🙂

The Blessed Mother died. She was assumed into Heaven both body and soul. She acts on our behalf helping in our salvation. During her life she lived with the Apostiles It has been said that she live to the age of 63, but who cares? As far as the actual day, year, and manner of the Blessed Mother’s death, nothing certain is known.that also isn’t important. The earliest known literary reference to the Assumptionof Mary is found in the Greek work De Obitu S. Dominae. (From our written tradition)
Catholic faith, has always derived our knowledge of the Church mysteries from Sacred Tradition. As you know it consists of both Oral and Written tradition. Written tradition includes the real sacred scriptures. I already explained how you can get copies of them! 😃
But again, lucky for you, that actually isn’t necessary. Today, the belief in the corporeal assumption of Mary is universal in among East and West Catholicism; according to Pope Benedict XIV (De Festis B.V.M., I, viii, 18) it is a probable opinion, which to deny were impious and blasphemous. And we all know how God likes Blasphers! :eek:
May I claim a point of personal privilege, Rob?

The Church is completely silent on whether Our Lady died or did not die. The encylical proclaiming her Assumption as dogma, Munificentissimus Deus, is carefully worded so as to leave the question open: "having completed the course of her earthly life . . "
 
Each person to his own degree and to be judged by Our Lord only, do you know of any human being that is without sin other than our Lord and His Mother?
The Lord Jesus is the only one who was entirely sinless. No one conceived of 2 human beings is born without sin.
 
The Lord Jesus is the only one who was entirely sinless. No one conceived of 2 human beings is born without sin.
Our Lady was brought into this world for the purpose of bearing Jesus, the Son of God so why should she not be a pure and sinless human being? God can do all things you know.

A sinful woman would not have been worthy of becoming the Mother of God.

🙂
 
Cinette;4348054]
Originally Posted by justasking4
The Lord Jesus is the only one who was entirely sinless. No one conceived of 2 human beings is born without sin.
Cinette
Our Lady was brought into this world for the purpose of bearing Jesus, the Son of God so why should she not be a pure and sinless human being?
The Scriptures never claim this is necessary for the Lord to come into the world that Mary must be sinless. What was necessary was that the HS overshadowed her for the conception of the Lord Jesus. This was the only way for deity to take on human flesh.
God can do all things you know.
The issue though is did He do it in the way catholics say it was done to Mary. What is the evidence that Mary also was immaculately conceived?
A sinful woman would not have been worthy of becoming the Mother of God.🙂
Mary was not worthy because of anything in herself that she on her own made herself worthy rather it was God Who chose her.
 
again I ask what is your denomination and what Bible do you use
non demoninational and i prefer and use the New American Standard which is a word for word literal translation.
What translation do you use?
 
non demoninational and i prefer and use the New American Standard which is a word for word literal translation.
What translation do you use?
The New American Bible
Latin Vulgate
Septuagint
New Jerusalem Bible
RSV – CE
Catechism of The Catholic Faith
And several sources of reference
 
“Bible” comes from the Greek ta biblia which means “the books.” We regard the Bible as a single book. In fact, it is a library of books which were written over a period of approximately 1500 years. The Bible, “The Book,” is about God revealing Himself to His people, the Jewish people first, then revealing Himself to all people in His Son, Jesus Christ. The Bible tells us about how God acts in human history, and it teaches us about God. It contains religious history. God is the author of the Bible. So, the Bible is not only about God, it is also by Him. The languages in which the books of the Bible were written were Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek. Most of the Old Testament books were written in Hebrew. Parts of Daniel, Ezra, Jeremiah, Esther and probably Tobit and Judith were written in Aramaic (the language spoken by Jesus, which was related to Hebrew and popular in Palestine during His time). The Book of Wisdom, 2nd Maccabees and all the books of the New Testament were written in Greek. Some say Matthew had a shorter Gospel in Aramaic, but it no longer exists.

The Bible is divided into the Old Testament (containing 46 books), and the New Testament (containing 27 books). The word “Testament” means “covenant” or “agreement”. The Old Testament or Old Covenant, involves the family bond between God and the Israelites wherein He would be their God, and they would be His people (Exodus 24:1-8). Moses said, “… ‘This is the blood of the covenant which the Lord has made with you according to all these words.’” (Exodus 24:8). The old covenant was sealed with the blood of animals and an oath. The New Testament or New Covenant involves the fulfillment of the old covenant by a new covenant with God. “… I will put My law in their minds and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.” (Jeremiah 31:33). Jesus said, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is shed for you.” (Luke 22:20). The new covenant was sealed with the Blood of Jesus Christ and the oath of our baptism.

The Old Testament was put together by the Hebrews and the New Testament was collected and preserved by members of the Catholic Christian Faith after the time of Christ.

The word “Gospel” means “Good News.” It means the good news of salvation proclaimed by Christ and the Church, and given to us in written form by Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. There are no original manuscripts of any books of the Bible in existence today. The oldest copy is the Book of Isaiah, which is in Hebrew, and dates from about 100 B.C. It was found in a cave near Jericho in 1947, and is part of the Dead Sea Scrolls. The oldest New Testament manuscripts we have date from approximately A.D. 350.

The contents of the Bible developed in three stages:

Oral Stage - Stories handed down through the generations by word of mouth (almost all of the Book of Genesis is from oral accounts, or what we call tradition). The more important stories were memorized and told on special occasions.

Writing Stage - As time went on, people began to write things down. Writing was difficult, and very few people could read. For hundreds of years both oral tradition and the written word existed side by side. Some parts of the Bible were written to meet a particular need of the community, Jewish or Christian. Not all Oral Traditions were written down.

Editing Stage - Material was chosen which best represented the religious traditions of the people. The oral and written accounts could have differed slightly, so editing was done to bring unity between the two. The contents of the Bible came from this last stage. These three stages of development existed for the most part simultaneously, though the Oral Stage came first and the Editing Stage came last.
Symbols for spoken words were developed probably about 6000 years ago. About 2500 B.C. the Egyptians developed papyrus, on which they inscribed their symbols. They joined several of these together and rolled them on a rod to make something like a scroll. About A.D. 105, the Chinese invented paper, but it was not introduced into the Western world until about A.D. 700. It was more than 700 years later (A.D. 1450) that Johann Gutenberg invented printing.

The Bible was written by many different human authors over a period of 1500 years. These human authors were inspired by God, that is, God breathed ideas into them which He wanted expressed, and they expressed these ideas in their own way. It was not their intention to write a book that would be entered into “The Bible,” as we know it. The whole thrust was to preserve the traditions of how God dealt with His people.

Since the Bible is not one book, but a library of books, there are many different kinds of writing in these books, e.g., prose, proverbs, parables, prophesy, prayers, poetry, (narrative hymns), legends, legal documents, letters, sermons, songs, stories, etc. This is called Literary Form.

In order to be able to understand a passage of the Bible one must be aware of:

In what form it was written, e.g., prose, poetry, history, etc. (Literary Form)
Why it was written.
When it was written.
What is the whole book about?
What is the meaning of each word?
How does it fit in with other parts of the Bible on the same subject?
The Old Testament is organized under three major headings:
The Law - this is the first in importance and consists of the first five books.
The Prophets - this consists of the preaching attributed to the prophets and their writings and the Books of Joshua, Judges, Samuel and Kings.
The Writings - this consists of the remainder of the Old Testament.
The Bible is God’s gift to us. The Bible is God’s love letter to His people. It was written over many centuries and contains different kinds of writing. We all need help to interpret what is being said in the different books. The Catholic Church offers that help.
 
The Lord Jesus is the only one who was entirely sinless. No one conceived of 2 human beings is born without sin.
Wonder what God was doing when He created Adam and Eve. Obviously He was not thinking about what He was doing…mulitasking, maybe? Distracted? Maybe He meant to make them sinful, but forgot
The Scriptures never claim this is necessary for the Lord to come into the world that Mary must be sinless.
Well, we read them differently! 😃
What was necessary was that the HS overshadowed her for the conception of the Lord Jesus. This was the only way for deity to take on human flesh.
Wow. I constantly marvel - how small is your God!

Catholics know God who is the Lord of all creation, who created everything out of nothing, and made man out of the dust of the ground. We believe there are any number of ways for a diety to take on human flesh. He chose to come through a spotless virgin because He wanted to do it that way.
The issue though is did He do it in the way catholics say it was done to Mary. What is the evidence that Mary also was immaculately conceived?
I am sorry, ja4. The evidence is invisible to you, because you do not believe it exists. It can only be seen by those who have been given eyes to see it, and you have not. 🤷
Mary was not worthy because of anything in herself that she on her own made herself worthy rather it was God Who chose her.
Yes. He chose her in HIm before the foundation of the world, that she might be holy and blameless in His sight. 👍
 
guanophore;4350012]
Originally Posted by justasking4
The Lord Jesus is the only one who was entirely sinless. No one conceived of 2 human beings is born without sin.
guanophore
Wonder what God was doing when He created Adam and Eve. Obviously He was not thinking about what He was doing…mulitasking, maybe? Distracted? Maybe He meant to make them sinful, but forgot
Were Adam and Eve concieved?
Well, we read them differently! 😃
This has to be one of your favorite mantras. Its your supreme weapon against anything you can’t answer to…👍
Wow. I constantly marvel - how small is your God!
Catholics know God who is the Lord of all creation, who created everything out of nothing, and made man out of the dust of the ground. We believe there are any number of ways for a diety to take on human flesh. He chose to come through a spotless virgin because He wanted to do it that way.
What do you mean by a spotless virgin? Did the OT predict that the mother of Christ was to be morally pure and sinless? If so, where?
I am sorry, ja4. The evidence is invisible to you, because you do not believe it exists. It can only be seen by those who have been given eyes to see it, and you have not. 🤷
Or better yet i need to become a gnostic. The gnostic taught a person needed some kind of “secret knowledge” to understand.
Yes. He chose her in HIm before the foundation of the world, that she might be holy and blameless in His sight. 👍
This quote also applies to you and me. Its found in Ephesians 1:3-4. Does this mean you and i were born without sin and have never sinned?
 
May I claim a point of personal privilege, Rob?

The Church is completely silent on whether Our Lady died or did not die. The encylical proclaiming her Assumption as dogma, Munificentissimus Deus, is carefully worded so as to leave the question open: "having completed the course of her earthly life . . "
Hi mercygate, :tiphat:

Of course, unlike “others”:whacky: we like to be factual and not leave a wrong impression. 👍 I have read several stories, relating Oral traditions about her life and death. I agree with you that the Official Church stance is we don’t know.🤷
And actually it actually doesn’t matter. I would like to think she died in the arms of the Aposel who love Jesus.:gopray:
But just knowing that she she is watching down on us and praying for us to her son is what makes my heart leep for joy.

It is all good!

God Bless
 
Hi mercygate, :tiphat:

Of course, unlike “others”:whacky: we like to be factual and not leave a wrong impression. 👍 I have read several stories, relating Oral traditions about her life and death. I agree with you that the Official Church stance is we don’t know.🤷
And actually it actually doesn’t matter. I would like to think she died in the arms of the Aposel who love Jesus.:gopray:
But just knowing that she she is watching down on us and praying for us to her son is what makes my heart leep for joy.

It is all good!

God Bless
What do you mean it does not matter? :eek:
 
non demoninational and i prefer and use the New American Standard which is a word for word literal translation.
What translation do you use?
A word for word literal translation. Why not just use the original Catholic version? :whistle:

Non denominational? You can’t even spell the word.:tsktsk: Oh wait, you did spell ir correct :doh2: We know which demonination you belong to! :knight2: You know what was said about your Leader in Genesis :3:15? And it will be well deserved! :signofcross:
 
What do you mean it does not matter? :eek:
I shocked you?:whacky: I am Sorry!:imsorry:

You see, It just isn’t necessary for our salvation to know weather she died or not.:crossrc:
It it was, the RCC would have told us! :highprayer:

Kisses :whackadoo:
 
Were Adam and Eve concieved?
Apparently not in the mind of God, as He must have been busy doing other things. Perhaps they popped out of one of his sweat glands, instead of a thought, intention, or desire?
This has to be one of your favorite mantras. Its your supreme weapon against anything you can’t answer to…👍
Indeed, it is a powerful position to be standing in the Apostolic Tradition. When we read scripture according to the mindset of those who wrote it, we understand their intentions. 👍
What do you mean by a spotless virgin? Did the OT predict that the mother of Christ was to be morally pure and sinless? If so, where?
It is prefigured in the instructions for the building of the ark of the covenant.
Or better yet i need to become a gnostic. The gnostic taught a person needed some kind of “secret knowledge” to understand.
Not secret at all! Open to all who are willing to believe.

Not open to the faithless.
This quote also applies to you and me. Its found in Ephesians 1:3-4. Does this mean you and i were born without sin and have never sinned?
Yes. I was born from above in baptism, and I am a new creation. I am created in Christ Jesus, who is without sin. 👍

God applied this to Mary at her conception. It was applied to me as an infant.
 
You can’t even spell the word.:tsktsk: Oh wait, you did spell ir correct :doh2: We know which demonination you belong to! :knight2: You know what was said about your Leader in Genesis :3:15? And it will be well deserved! :signofcross:
Give ja4 a break, Rob. Use the abbreviated form non demoninational 😛
 
I shocked you?:whacky: I am Sorry!:imsorry:

You see, It just isn’t necessary for our salvation to know weather she died or not.:crossrc:
It it was, the RCC would have told us! :highprayer:

Kisses :whackadoo:
Does it matter though if there is historical and Scriptural support to be believed?
 
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