Sacred Oral and Written Tradition

[guanophore]

What do you mean it does not matter?

It does not matter to us when Jesus took her to Himself. Only that He did. In the East, we call it the Dormition (the falling asleep) and it is likenend to many scriptural accounts of those who “are not dead, but only sleeping”. Jesus raised them, to Him, they were asleep.

God is not the God of the dead, but the living, for all are alive unto Him.

Since death is the consequence of sin, and Mary was conceived without sin, she may not have undergone the penalty of death, and Jesus took her after she had fallen asleep.

 

[justasking4]

Give ja4 a break, Rob. Use the abbreviated form non demoninational

Thanks for the support and the protection—i need all the help i can get----View attachment 4418

 

[justasking4]

It does not matter to us when Jesus took her to Himself. Only that He did. In the East, we call it the Dormition (the falling asleep) and it is likenend to many scriptural accounts of those who “are not dead, but only sleeping”. Jesus raised them, to Him, they were asleep.

God is not the God of the dead, but the living, for all are alive unto Him.

Since death is the consequence of sin, and Mary was conceived without sin, she may not have undergone the penalty of death, and Jesus took her after she had fallen asleep.

This is incoherent. The wages of sin is death. The mere fact Mary died is another indicator that she was a sinner.

 

[guanophore]

This is incoherent.

I believe that, ja4. The things of God are often incoherent to those that are reasoning in the flesh.

The wages of sin is death. The mere fact Mary died is another indicator that she was a sinner.

That’s just the point, we have no proof that she actually died. The testimony we have is that, when here days on earth were done. she was taken up into heaven by her own dear son.

We then see her heavenly image described by the disciple whom Jesus loved, into whose keeping He gave her from the cross.

 

[mercygate]

This is incoherent. The wages of sin is death. The mere fact Mary died is another indicator that she was a sinner.

Theologians tend to believe that she did die, not because she was a sinner but because she was so perfectly united with her Son in heart and will that she followed Him in death.

 

[twb1621]

This is incoherent. The wages of sin is death. The mere fact Mary died is another indicator that she was a sinner.

The fact that Mary died is proof she was human. Her ascension took place as it did because there was no reason for her to wait for judgment as the majority of us will have to.

Its very interesting to look over the history of the posts that you have entered. you must have a very healthy Bladder to be only one person.
what was the faith you were raised in because you were not always “non-denominational” and you obviously chose being so because it was the only way for you to justify living against “certain” teachings and feeling rightious with it.

Why is it you seem to have no evidence for rebuttal to the information I have posted for you to “learn” something if you sincerely ask?

 

[justasking4]

well, its about that time for you to sign off, isn’t it…

View attachment 4419

 

[twb1621]

View attachment 4419

I mean according to your posts.

 

[twb1621]

Catholics DO NOT worship Mary, the Mother of Christ – as though she were a deity. Of all the misconceptions about Catholic belief and practice, this one is the most absurd. Catholics are just as aware as Protestants that Mary was a human creature, and therefore not entitled to the honors which are reserved to God alone. What many non-Catholics mistake for adoration is a very profound love and veneration, nothing more. Mary is not adored, first because God forbids it, and secondly because the Canon Law of the Catholic Church, which is based on Divine Law, forbids it. Canon Law 1255 of the 1918 Codex strictly forbids adoration of anyone other than the Holy Trinity. However, Catholics do feel that Mary is entitled to a great measure of exaltation because, in choosing her as the Mother of Redemption, God Himself exalted her – exalted her more than any other human person before or since. Catholics heap tribute and honor on Mary because they earnestly desire to be “followers of God, as most dear children.” (Eph. 5:1). Mary herself prophesied: “For behold from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed. Because he that is mighty, hath done great things to me; and holy is his name.” (Luke 1:48-49). Catholics know that every bit of the glory they give to Mary redounds to the glory of her divine Son, just as Mary magnified God, not herself, when Elizabeth blessed her. (Luke 1:41-55). They know that the closer they draw to her, the closer they draw to Him who was born of her. In the year 434 St. Vincent of Lerins defended Christian devotion to Mary this way: “Therefore, may God forbid that anyone should attempt to defraud Holy Mary of her privilege of divine grace and her special glory. For by a unique favor of our Lord and God she is confessed to be the most true and most blessed Mother of God.” Today 75% of all Christians still hold to this same view.
But then you are well aware of this, so if you intend to argue this point, please try to come up with a legitimate rebuttal rather than something off the wall.

 

[RobGentner]

It does not matter to us when Jesus took her to Himself. Only that He did. In the East, we call it the Dormition (the falling asleep) and it is likenend to many scriptural accounts of those who “are not dead, but only sleeping”. Jesus raised them, to Him, they were asleep.

God is not the God of the dead, but the living, for all are alive unto Him.

Since death is the consequence of sin, and Mary was conceived without sin, she may not have undergone the penalty of death, and Jesus took her after she had fallen asleep.

The problem with JA4 is they are confusing Physical death with spiritual death. Remember gaun, they aren’t allowed to know our Oral Traditions they would onlyt distort them also. look what they did to the scriptures they “borrowed”

 

[RobGentner]

The fact that Mary died is proof she was human. Her ascension took place as it did because there was no reason for her to wait for judgment as the majority of us will have to.

Hi twb, :tiphat:

Tom, you mean to tell me there’s going to be a line? Reference the Blessed Mother, What is so great about God is even people like JA4 can not understand His ways or the ways of His true church. Even though they use our scriptures trying to pretend they know His ways!

Its very interesting to look over the history of the posts that you have entered. you must have a very healthy Bladder to be only one person.

Eeerrrr, getting a little personal there aren’t we? You really didn’t know that they are a team? We figure ~ Husband or wife, significant others, WINK , whatever.

what was the faith you were raised in because you were not always “non-denominational” and you obviously chose being so because it was the only way for you to justify living against “certain” teachings and feeling rightious with it.

I rather know what their church’s own unofficial “denomination” (they all" borrow" from some else!) was to include their now formed group specific set of tenets defining their new beliefs and practices as a congregation. That would tell us more.:coffeeread:

Why is it you seem to have no evidence for rebuttal to the information I have posted for you to “learn” something if you sincerely ask?

Hey, give them a break. They are only given 25 questions to ask and since they aren’t Catholics they don’t have access to all the right answers!

Keep the faith, and don’t expect much from JA4 and they will never disappoint you! :extrahappy:

 

[justasking4]

Originally Posted by justasking4
This is incoherent. The wages of sin is death. The mere fact Mary died is another indicator that she was a sinner.

twb1621
The fact that Mary died is proof she was human. Her ascension took place as it did because there was no reason for her to wait for judgment as the majority of us will have to.

Its very interesting to look over the history of the posts that you have entered. you must have a very healthy Bladder to be only one person.
what was the faith you were raised in because you were not always “non-denominational” and you obviously chose being so because it was the only way for you to justify living against “certain” teachings and feeling rightious with it.

Why is it you seem to have no evidence for rebuttal to the information I have posted for you to “learn” something if you sincerely ask?

Thank you for your concern about my health. Please address the issue about Mary dying. If Mary was sinless and the wages of sin is death then she must not be sinless or the Scriptures lie. What do you think?

 

[guanophore]

Thank you for your concern about my health. Please address the issue about Mary dying. If Mary was sinless and the wages of sin is death then she must not be sinless or the Scriptures lie. What do you think?

I think it is an irrelevant question, since the Church does not teach that she died.

 

[mercygate]

Thank you for your concern about my health. Please address the issue about Mary dying. If Mary was sinless and the wages of sin is death then she must not be sinless or the Scriptures lie. What do you think?

Jesus was also sinless, and orthodox Christian teaching is that God died on the cross. It is generally held, though not dogmatically, that Mary died in conformity with her Son.

 

[justasking4]

guanophore;4350679]It does not matter to us when Jesus took her to Himself. Only that He did.

What is the evidence that Jesus Himself actually came to bring Mary in her physical body to heaven? Just asserting is so does not make it so.

In the East, we call it the Dormition (the falling asleep) and it is likenend to many scriptural accounts of those who “are not dead, but only sleeping”. Jesus raised them, to Him, they were asleep.

This sounds like the resurrection of the dead on the last day.

God is not the God of the dead, but the living, for all are alive unto Him.

True

Since death is the consequence of sin, and Mary was conceived without sin, she may not have undergone the penalty of death, and Jesus took her after she had fallen asleep.

It is true that death for believers the metaphor of sleep is used. However a death has still happened in regards to the physical body. If Mary’s body died that is an indication of sin because the wages of sin is death i.e. spiritual and physical.

 

[justasking4]

Jesus was also sinless, and orthodox Christian teaching is that God died on the cross. It is generally held, though not dogmatically, that Mary died in conformity with her Son.

Jesus died not because of any sin He did but He died in our place and He willing laid down His life. No one took it from Him.

Is there an offical statement by the church on the death of Mary as you suggest?

 

[justasking4]

Originally Posted by justasking4
Thank you for your concern about my health. Please address the issue about Mary dying. If Mary was sinless and the wages of sin is death then she must not be sinless or the Scriptures lie. What do you think?

guanophore
I think it is an irrelevant question, since the Church does not teach that she died.

Nice try. This is a very relevant question since it impacts so much of the Marian doctrines.

 

[twb1621]

Thank you for your concern about my health. Please address the issue about Mary dying. If Mary was sinless and the wages of sin is death then she must not be sinless or the Scriptures lie. What do you think?

there’s no verification or mention of death

 

[mercygate]

Jesus died not because of any sin He did but He died in our place and He willing laid down His life. No one took it from Him.

Is there an offical statement by the church on the death of Mary as you suggest?

No. That’s the point.

We don’t have the body of the Blessed Virgin (although we have bones of all the Apostles).

The encyclical declaring the dogma of the Assumption, Munificentissimus Deus, carefully skirts the issue of whether she died or was taken up, as it were, the forerunner to those on the last day who will be taken up to be with the Lord without tasting death. The wording in the encylical is: “having completed the course of her earthly life . . .”

As I stated, the general sense of theologians is that she DID die because her life was conformed to the life of her Son. But there is no official position.

 

[guanophore]

What is the evidence that Jesus Himself actually came to bring Mary in her physical body to heaven? Just asserting is so does not make it so.

We only have the evidence of things not seen. It is an article of faith. I agree, asserting it does not make it so. And denying it does not make it void, either.

This sounds like the resurrection of the dead on the last day.

Yes, all those who are bodily assumed into heaven prefigure that which awaits all of us.

It is true that death for believers the metaphor of sleep is used. However a death has still happened in regards to the physical body. If Mary’s body died that is an indication of sin because the wages of sin is death i.e. spiritual and physical.

I can understand why you would see it that way. Jesus died too, and paid the wages of sin for all of us.

If He wanted to exempt His mother, it is certainly His perogative.