Sacred Oral and Written Tradition

[Pixie_Dust]

Thank you for your concern about my health. Please address the issue about Mary dying. If Mary was sinless and the wages of sin is death then she must not be sinless or the Scriptures lie. What do you think?

When I was a Baptist and taking “soul-winning” classes, we were told that “death” in this passage means separation from God, not physical death.

 

[guanophore]

Nice try. This is a very relevant question since it impacts so much of the Marian doctrines.

No, ja4. The sins of King Saul have absolutely nothing to do with the Marian doctrines. For that matter, neither does the appearance of Saul. The belief in the communion of saints predated Christ for hundreds of years.

 

[twb1621]

Nice try. This is a very relevant question since it impacts so much of the Marian doctrines.

With all prayer and supplication,
pray at every opportunity in the Spirit.
To that end, be watchful with all perseverance and supplication
for all the holy ones and also for me,
that speech may be given me to open my mouth,
to make known with boldness the mystery of the Gospel
for which I am an ambassador in chains,so that I may have the courage to speak as I must.

 

[RobGentner]

When I was a Baptist and taking “soul-winning” classes, we were told that “death” in this passage means separation from God, not physical death.

Hi Pixie,:tiphat:

JustAsking4The100th Time, knows that it in fact means that!

But they twist things that they want to suit what they want to prove what they want. :hypno: They disregard that which they can’t disprove and they foolishly risk their souls by poking fun of the Blessed Mother!:ehh: But it is their soulsso I guess they can throw them away if the want:shrug: Their Master likes it when his servants try to and corrupt Christians and obtain him more souls! . Beware of the ones that ask questions over and over again. Sooner or later you might accept what they say as true!

**IF I HAD MY LIFE TO LIVE OVER **
- by Erma Bombeck
(written after she found out she was dying from cancer).

**I would have gone to bed when I was sick instead of pretending the earth would go into a holding pattern if I weren’t there for the day.

I would have burned th e pink candle sculpted like a rose before it melted in storage.

I would have talked less and listened more. **

**I would have invited friends over to dinner even if the carpet was stained, or the sofa faded.

I would have eaten the popcorn in the ‘good’ living room and worried much less about the dirt when someone wanted to light a fire in the fireplace.

I would have taken the time to listen to my grandfather ramble about his youth. **

**I would have shared more of the responsibility carried by my husband.

I would never have insisted the car windows be rolled up on a summer day because my hair had just been teased and sprayed.

I would have sat on the lawn with my grass stains. **

**I would have cried and laughed less while watching television and more while watching life. **

**I would never have bought anything just because it was practical, wouldn’t show soil, or was guaranteed to last a lifetime.

Instead of wishing away nine months of pregnancy, I’d have cherished every moment and realized that the wonderment growing inside me was the only chance in life to assist God in a miracle. **

**When my kids kissed me impetuously, I would never have said, ‘Later. Now go get washed up for dinner.’ **

**There would have been more ‘I love you’s’ More ‘I’m sorry’s.’

But mostly, given another shot at life, I would seize every minute.look at it and really see it . . live it and never give it back**

**STOP SWEATING THE SMALL STUFF!!! **

**Don’t worry about who doesn’t like you, who has more, or who’s doing what **

Instead, let’s cherish the relationships we have with those who do love us.

May she rest in peace!.

 

[RobGentner]

Jesus died not because of any sin He did but He died in our place and He willing laid down His life. No one took it from Him.

Is there an offical statement by the church on the death of Mary as you suggest?

Hi JA4, :tiphat:

Then are you are saying there can be real death without it being a wage for sin?
Why would you say it is the wage for sin and then deny it? Why does it apply to one “truely” Human person ~ Jesus and not His mother? Why can’t God choice who dies and who doesn’t? Isn’t He God? Did He say in the Bible everyone muct die? What verse?

Why do you know better than God what He did or didn’t do? Is everything about God writtem in the bible? Did God Lie? Did Jesus? Did the Bible? Did you? Let me pick one!

OK I got it which one do you think I picked?

Yup, The Bible, as you interpreted it!!

 

[justasking4]

RobGentner;4358564]
Originally Posted by justasking4
Jesus died not because of any sin He did but He died in our place and He willing laid down His life. No one took it from Him.

Is there an offical statement by the church on the death of Mary as you suggest?

RobGentner
Then are you are saying there can be real death without it being a wage for sin?
Not sure what you are asking. All humans will suffer death because of sin. The only exceptions would be those who are alive when Christ returns and those special cases in the OT. In all these cases all these people were still sinners.

Why would you say it is the wage for sin and then deny it?

Not sure what you mean?

Why does it apply to one “truely” Human person Jesus and not His mother?

Jesus was born as a sinless human being. That’s why His conception by the HS is so important and unique. Mary on the other hand is not even addressed in the Scriptures and it does not even hint she was immaculatedly concieved.

Why can;'t Gofd choice who dies and who doesn’t?

I never said He could not.

Why doo you know better thaen God what He did or does?

I’m basing my theology on the Scriptures which are the only source on these matters.

Is everything about God writtem in the bible?

No. However it is only in the Scriptures that God gives the fullest revelation of Himself.

Did God Lie? Did Jesus? Did the Bible? Did you?

No

Let me pick one! OK I got it which one do you think I picked?

Yup, The Bible, as you interpreted it!!

You can say this but can you show me where i have interpreted incorrectly?

 

[Lampo]

You can say this but can you show me where i have interpreted incorrectly?

Can you show him where you interpreted it correctly?

 

[justasking4]

Can you show him where you interpreted it correctly?

He’s making the claim not me… He bears the burden of proof in showing where i erred.

 

[RobGentner]

He’s making the claim not me… He bears the burden of proof in showing where i erred.

And so he will try again! SIGH! Pay attention this time, That means ALL of you JA4T1T!

Jesus died not because of any sin He did but He died in our place and He willing laid down His life. No one took it from Him.

Is there an offical statement by the church on the death of Mary as you suggest?

I suggested no such thing, liar! However, since I love you, I will try again:
Jesus still died didn’t He? He actually Died? And He was without sin? He had no “personal nor original sin”? So His mother could have died like He did? And she was taken up to heaven whole, body and soul by Her son because She had no personal sin, or original sin, and needs not be judged? . CAREFUL! This is “holy ground” Be very careful what you say ~ your very soul may depend on this! You have been warned!
You know there isn’t an official statement from the church except that we don’t know if she died or not and as I told you before “It doesn’t matter!” Our Faith doesn’t depend on that ONLY That Jesus died and rose and that we Eat His body and drink His blood to obtain eternal life. We do other things to be good Catholic so we won’t be tricked by the Devil to follow him and his false religions!

Not sure what you are asking. All humans will suffer death because of sin. The only exceptions would be those who are alive when Christ returns and those special cases in the OT. In all these cases all these people were still sinners.

You said that! And you even admit that “all” humans did not suffer death and that it says so in the Bible. Why couldn’t God make an exception of The Blessed Mother. Where does it say he won’t? And the wages of Sin is “spiritual” death not “physical” death and you know that also! The soul of the sinners will die. The righest will be risen up “body and soul” but you also knew that!

Trying to get a straight answer out of you is like “trying to nail red jell-o to the wailing wall” like you once said!l

Kiss the rest of you for me!

 

[twb1621]

Jesus was born as a sinless human being. That’s why His conception by the HS is so important and unique. Mary on the other hand is not even addressed in the Scriptures and it does not even hint she was immaculatedly concieved.
…However it is only in the Scriptures that God gives the fullest revelation of Himself.

Both Jesus and Mary were spoken of in the OT neither by their earthly name but both spoken of and described through the prophets in God’s word. the woman at enmity with the serpent is Mary. God puts enmity between her and Satan in the same manner and measure, as there is enmity between Christ and the seed of the serpent.

 

[guanophore]

Not sure what you are asking. All humans will suffer death because of sin. The only exceptions would be those who are alive when Christ returns and those special cases in the OT. In all these cases all these people were still sinners.

He is pointing out a logical inconsistency in your thinking. You admitted that Christ died not for His own sins, but those of others. So you have an exception that all death is a result of personal sin.

Not sure what you mean?

You admitted that a sinless person can die, then you denied it.

Jesus was born as a sinless human being. That’s why His conception by the HS is so important and unique. Mary on the other hand is not even addressed in the Scriptures and it does not even hint she was immaculatedly concieved.

Well, we read it differently! We see quite a bit of things you cannot when we read about her conversation with the angel.

I never said He could not.

Most of the time, you can accept that it is God’s perogative and ability to save His mother from sin, but you deny that he would.

I’m basing my theology on the Scriptures which are the only source on these matters.

Well, speak for yourself! Even the scriptures don’t say that about themselves.

No. However it is only in the Scriptures that God gives the fullest revelation of Himself.

It is no wonder that your spiritual experience and understanding are so limited.

You can say this but can you show me where i have interpreted incorrectly?

No need. we are obligated to reject as “different gospel” anything that we did nor receive from the Apostles.

You made it up, you can keep it.

By the way, you erroneously stated that those in the OT who were taken up to heaven without death were “sinners”. This is not the case. Sinners are not allowed in heaven, only Saints. These people were entirely cleanse of sin, and all attachmet to sin by God. Nothing unclean can enter heaven.

 

[twb1621]

JA4, its such a loss to have such persistance with misguided, corrupt and missing information. You could be so much better off by learning the TRUTH.

 

[guanophore]

JA4, its such a loss to have such persistance with misguided, corrupt and missing information. You could be so much better off by learning the TRUTH.

I agree. It is grievous. Join me in prayer, that the eyes of her heart may be enlightened, and that she may learn the fullness of the revelation that God has made known to His angels and saints.

 

[justasking4]

RobGentner;4360684]And so he will try again! SIGH! Pay attention this time, That means ALL of you JA4T1T!

I suggested no such thing, liar! However, since I love you, I will try again:
Jesus still died didn’t He? He actually Died? And He was without sin? He had no “personal nor original sin”? So His mother could have died like He did? And she was taken up to heaven whole, body and soul by Her son because She had no personal sin, or original sin, and needs not be judged? . CAREFUL! This is “holy ground” Be very careful what you say ~ your very soul may depend on this! You have been warned!
View attachment 4442

You know there isn’t an official statement from the church except that we don’t know if she died or not and as I told you before “It doesn’t matter!” Our Faith doesn’t depend on that ONLY That Jesus died and rose and that we Eat His body and drink His blood to obtain eternal life. We do other things to be good Catholic so we won’t be tricked by the Devil to follow him and his false religions!

You said that! And you even admit that “all” humans did not suffer death and that it says so in the Bible. Why couldn’t God make an exception of The Blessed Mother. Where does it say he won’t?
The question is: did He do this in regards to Mary as you assert here? If so, where is the evidence? Its not in Scripture that He did this. Where do you go to find the evidence that God really did this for Mary?

And the wages of Sin is “spiritual” death not “physical” death and you know that also! The soul of the sinners will die. The righest will be risen up “body and soul” but you also knew that!

Trying to get a straight answer out of you is like “trying to nail red jell-o to the wailing wall” like you once said!l

I can see you are learning from a couple our “friends”. Watch out though. They can read minds and turn on you before your know what hit you…

Kiss the rest of you for me!

 

[justasking4]

JA4, its such a loss to have such persistance with misguided, corrupt and missing information. You could be so much better off by learning the TRUTH.

I don’t think so. My persistence and passion for the TRUTH is not misguided. I think it troubles many that there is far more than they may have known about these things and its uncomfortable.

 

[justasking4]

guanophore;4361390]
Originally Posted by justasking4
Not sure what you are asking. All humans will suffer death because of sin. The only exceptions would be those who are alive when Christ returns and those special cases in the OT. In all these cases all these people were still sinners.

guanophore
He is pointing out a logical inconsistency in your thinking. You admitted that Christ died not for His own sins, but those of others. So you have an exception that all death is a result of personal sin.

Its not a logical inconsitency. I have demonstrated clearly what the rule is in regards to sin. All die unless there is exception as i have clearly shown. Its like the law of gravity. What goes up must go down. However there are exceptions to this when there is a “higher or different law” that affects the what we normally see.

Originally Posted by justasking4
Not sure what you mean?
guanophore
You admitted that a sinless person can die, then you denied it.

I did not deny it but qualified it why in certain cases it did not always happen.

 

[justasking4]

guanophore;4361390]
Originally Posted by justasking4
I never said He could not.
guanophore;
Most of the time, you can accept that it is God’s perogative and ability to save His mother from sin, but you deny that he would.

I never say He would not but rather “did He”? Yours and others who believe Mary did not sin is that she was kept from doing so. The problem is that you are taking this assertion that she was kept from sinning without any facts to back it up. An assertion is not proof that it did happen.

 

[mercygate]

I never say He would not but rather “did He”? Yours and others who believe Mary did not sin is that she was kept from doing so. The problem is that you are taking this assertion that she was kept from sinning without any facts to back it up. An assertion is not proof that it did happen.

What about Elijah?

 

[justasking4]

Originally Posted by justasking4
I never say He would not but rather “did He”? Yours and others who believe Mary did not sin is that she was kept from doing so. The problem is that you are taking this assertion that she was kept from sinning without any facts to back it up. An assertion is not proof that it did happen.

mercygate
What about Elijah?

What are you asking?

 

[mercygate]

What are you asking?

Elijah was taken up in the whirlwind – apparently, quite alive. Next time we see him he is having a little conference with Jesus and Moses. We know Moses died; but Elijah seems to have been an exception.