Sacred Oral and Written Tradition

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sandusky said:
By the way, what have you named your straw man? 😃
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I was thinking of calling it, “Sandusky’s Illogical and Inconsistent Pre-Supposition” but that seems a bit of a mouthful; I’ll probably shorten it to “Sandusky’s White Flag” 😃
 
cfrancis said:
I was thinking of calling it, “Sandusky’s Illogical and Inconsistent Pre-Supposition” but that seems a bit of a mouthful; I’ll probably shorten it to “Sandusky’s White Flag” 😃
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Good, but remember, a straw man by any name, is still a straw man. :whistle:

(Thanks for 'fessing up to your straw man. :tiphat: )
 
justasking4 said:
If you are going to limit yourself to the Scriptures alone you will not find anything about her assumption. Nothing. You will also not find any reliable historical support either. For example from a Catholic scholar:
“The Roman Catholic writer Eamon Duffy concedes that, ‘there is, clearly, no historical evidence whatever for it …’ (Eamon Duffy, What Catholics Believe About Mary (London: Catholic Truth Society, 1989), p. 17). For centuries in the early Church there is complete silence regarding Mary’s end. The first mention of it is by Epiphanius in 377 A.D. and he specifically states that no one knows what actually happened to Mary. He lived near Palestine and if there were, in fact, a tradition in the Church generally believed and taught he would have affirmed it. But he clearly states that ‘her end no one knows.’ These are his words:
But if some think us mistaken, let them search the Scriptures. They will not find Mary’s death; they will not find whether she died or did not die; they will not find whether she was buried or was not buried … Scripture is absolutely silent [on the end of Mary] … For my own part, I do not dare to speak, but I keep my own thoughts and I practice silence … The fact is, Scripture has outstripped the human mind and left [this matter] uncertain … Did she die, we do not know … Either the holy Virgin died and was buried … Or she was killed … Or she remained alive, since nothing is impossible with God and He can do whatever He desires; for her end no-one knows.’ (Epiphanius, Panarion, Haer. 78.10-11, 23. Cited by juniper Carol, O.F.M. ed., Mariology, Vol. II (Milwaukee: Bruce, 1957), pp. 139-40).”
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In the interest of disclosure, here is the site from which the above came: THE ASSUMPTION OF MARY
A Roman Catholic Dogma Originating with Heretics and Condemned as Heretical by 2 Popes in the 5th and 6th Centuries.
By William Webster

Here is a link to the chapter of Juniper Carol’s book from which Webster pulls his Epiphanius quote: [/INDENT]The Assumption of the Blessed Virgin Mary
from Juniper Carol’s Mariology
 
sandusky said:
Good, but remember, a straw man by any name, is still a straw man. :whistle:

(Thanks for 'fessing up to your straw man. :tiphat: )
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EDIT:
I’ve retracted my initial reply. Sandusky, I must apologize and ask your forgiveness. While I truly and firmly stand by my beliefs and analysis of your position, I have no right to “speak” to you the way I did, with both vanity and deprecation. I certainly would not converse with you in person with such a tone, and I shouldn’t do it here.
 
cfrancis said:
EDIT:
I’ve retracted my initial reply. Sandusky, I must apologize and ask your forgiveness. While I truly and firmly stand by my beliefs and analysis of your position, I have no right to “speak” to you the way I did, with both vanity and deprecation. I certainly would not converse with you in person with such a tone, and I shouldn’t do it here.
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Consider it forgotten, my friend. 🙂
 
cfrancis said:
Thank you, friend 🙂
I really, truly wish I could have many of the conversations I have on this forum, in person, gladly trading a keyboard for a cup of coffee 😃
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comeon guys, whadya say, group hug? …:grouphug: (I’m the blue one)
 
AshleyBelle said:
Soooooo… what was the purpose of this thread?
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I just knew someone would ask that!

**I think it is: Sacred Oral and Written Tradition. Let me ask someone wlse to make sure, I’ll get back to you on that! 👍 **
Best I can tell twb, I think cfrancis and sandusky would like to be alone! 😉 Lets get JA4 and guan and chriatianmilitant and start our own love feast!
 
Realcatholicgk said:
I just knew someone would ask that!

**I think it is: Sacred Oral and Written Tradition. Let me ask someone wlse to make sure, I’ll get back to you on that! 👍 **
Best I can tell twb, I think cfrancis and sandusky would like to be alone! 😉 Lets get JA4 and guan and chriatianmilitant and start our own love feast!
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No love feast, but a true desire to present the faith in love, not pride or anger. I’m still learning in that regard!😊
 
cfrancis said:
No love feast, but a true desire to present the faith in love, not pride or anger. I’m still learning in that regard!😊
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**You both are nice people. You apologized and she accepted it unconditionally. Now stop waving your white flag at her strawman will you? Or versa visa! 😃 Let’s hope we can get her back in the real church.👍 She would be a good revert. Bless both you guys! **
 
Realcatholicgk said:
**You both are nice people. You apologized and she accepted it unconditionally. Now stop waving your white flag at her strawman will you? Or versa visa! 😃 Let’s hope we can get her back in the real church.👍 She would be a good revert. Bless both you guys! **
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Hey, I’m the straw man, shes the white flag :doh2:
 
justasking4 said:
Not so. There is not one verse in the NT that attests to her supposed assumption. Not one.
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I understand that it seems that way to you. However, your inability to “see” them does not make them cease to exist, any more than your inability to “see” Pluto makes it go away. 😉
justasking4 said:
What evidence? :eek: There is none…
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None that you are able to accept, clearly. That does not make the evidence go away either.
justasking4 said:
The evidence for Pluto was inferred by its affect on other planets. If i’m not mistaken we know can see it with our telescopes. There is no inferences to Mary’s assumption in Scripture (the last time she is mentioned is in Galatians and not by name) and after 2000 years the church still does not know what happened to her.
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You are in the darkness, without a telescope, so it stands to reason that you cannot "see’ what the rest of us do. What is so peculiar is that you seem so disturbed by the fact that we do see it. This disturbance seems to make it impossible for you to go your way in peace.
justasking4 said:
Catholic scholars are to support church teachings and this scholar does not because as he writes there is no evidence for it.
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You are right, Catholic scholars should, but, there are plenty of sinful an disobedient Catholics of every profession, theologians not excluded. Their errors do not belong to the Church, but to themselves.
justasking4 said:
Code: 
i don't remember writing this...:shrug:
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It was part of the quote from the theologian you were using to discredit the Catholic faith. At least he had the sense to know that it is better to be silent, and thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt. 😉
justasking4 said:
I do for the reasons given and so should you. 👍
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It is very inappropriate for you to come to a Catholic forum, and tell others what they “should” do. It is not within your purview to give orders to others here.
 
guanophore said:
It was part of the quote from the theologian you were using to discredit the Catholic faith. At least he had the sense to know that it is better to be silent, and thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt. 😉

**JA4, "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.: --Abraham Lincoln **

It is very inappropriate for you to come to a Catholic forum, and tell others what they “should” do. It is not within your purview to give orders to others here.

** YEA! **
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h244/corona_stellarum/Smilies/jump4.gif
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