Sacred Scripture proves the Assumption of Mary is fact!

[thistle]

I don’t need or prefer another word for ascension…as u might wish me to.

On the topic of ascension, Wikipedia says the following:

Belief in some religions that there are rare individuals ( Elijah referenced) , that have ascended into Heaven w/o dying first …

I repeat that only Christ ascended into Heaven and that was by his own power as God.
Those (e.g. Mary) who were assumed into Heaven did not achieve that by their own power.

Ascension and assumption are different.

 

[brb3]

I repeat that only Christ ascended into Heaven and that was by his own power as God.
Those (e.g. Mary) who were assumed into Heaven did not achieve that by their own power.

Ascension and assumption are different.

Perhaps you should discuss/take authorship of topic from Wikipedia

 

[thistle]

Perhaps you should discuss/take authorship of topic from Wikipedia

Mary did not ascend into Heaven. She was assumed.
That’s why MUNIFICENTISSIMUS DEUS is the dogma of the Assumption and NOT the dogma of ascension.

 

[po18guy]

Perhaps you should discuss/take authorship of topic from Wikipedia

Mary did not ascend into Heaven. She was assumed.
That’s why MUNIFICENTISSIMUS DEUS is the dogma of the Assumption and NOT the dogma of ascension.

I’m with thistle on this one. Look at paintings of Mary being assumed: there are angels lifting her. Jesus ascended by His own power.

It is the difference between one missile being lifted by a crane and another rocketing skyward by its own engine power.

 

[brb3]

Mary did not ascend into Heaven. She was assumed.
That’s why MUNIFICENTISSIMUS DEUS is the dogma of the Assumption and NOT the dogma of ascension.

I totally agree with u about Mary …right on, right on.

But, on Elijah, Enoch, & possibly Moses …God ACTED by His power to carry them up …to ASCEND them up to him !!

 

[brb3]

I’m with thistle on this one. Look at paint-]/-]ings of Mary being assumed: there are angels lifting her. Jesus ascended by His own power.

It is the difference between one missile being lifted by a crane and another rocketing skyward by its own engine power.

Wow …where did I suggest above that Mary ever ascended to God via own powers ?

I’ve not even made claims that anyone else did either. No one elevates w/o a provided transport…a chariot, an Angel, or a rising cloud is essential.

To ascend to heaven …just means to be lifted up by God …WHILE STILL ALIVE.

To be assumed means ( to me at least) …that God takes u up FROM THE GRAVE, like in case of Mary

 

[thistle]

Wow …where did I suggest above that Mary ever ascended to God via own powers ?

I’ve not even made claims that anyone else did either. No one elevates w/o a provided transport…a chariot, an Angel, or a rising cloud is essential.

To ascend to heaven …just means to be lifted up by God …WHILE STILL ALIVE.

To be assumed means ( to me at least) …that God takes u up FROM THE GRAVE, like in case of Mary

Wrong.

Jesus ascended to Heaven by his own power.
Mary was assumed into Heaven by the power of God. It is irrelevant if she died first or not before being assumed. The Church does not teach she died. It is open for Catholics to believe she died first or did not but that does not affect her assumption.

Ascension only applies to Jesus. Any OT person taken up to Heaven was assumed. They did not ascend.

 

[thistle]

I also should have made it clear that no person prior to the death and Resurrection of Christ was in Heaven. The doors of Heaven were closed to all prior to Jesus. Jesus opened the doors of Heaven.

 

[brb3]

Wrong.

Jesus ascended to Heaven by his own power.

It is irrelevant if she died first or not before being assumed. The Church does not teach she died. It is open for Catholics to believe she died first or did not but that does not affect her assumption.

Ascension only applies to Jesus. Any OT person taken up to Heaven was assumed. They did not ascend

.

Thistle…

Clearly Christ, being God …has the power to do ANYTHING. We are discussing our ‘HUMAN ONLY’ forebears.

And, furthermore…we humans can’t draw a single breath w/o graces of God to us, much less have ability to levitate ourselves to heaven.

Now, about Mary …the Church has ALWAYS taught she died and was buried …then her body Assumed to heaven. But, if you want to believe otherwise …then go out on that limb alone. The Church won’t force you to believe it’s ancient traditions …

 

[thistle]

Thistle…

Clearly Christ, being God …has the power to do ANYTHING. We are discussing our ‘HUMAN ONLY’ forebears.

And, furthermore…we humans can’t draw a single breath w/o graces of God to us, much less have ability to levitate ourselves to heaven.

Now, about Mary …the Church has ALWAYS taught she died and was buried …then her body Assumed to heaven. But, if you want to believe otherwise …then go out on that limb alone. The Church won’t force you to believe it’s ancient traditions …

It is NOT a Church teaching that Mary died first. Catholics are free to believe either way. Personally, I believe she died but I cannot say a Catholic who believes otherwise is wrong because the Church allows us either belief.
On the other hand Mary’s Assumption is a dogmatic teaching which we are bound to believe.
However, none of that has anything to do with ascension and assumption.
Only Jesus ascended. No human has ascended. Mary was assumed into Heaven (she did not ascend) and whether she died first is not relevant.

 

[brb3]

It is NOT a Church teaching that Mary died first. Catholics are free to believe either way. Personally, I believe she died but I cannot say a Catholic who believes otherwise is wrong because the Church allows us either belief.
On the other hand Mary’s Assumption is a dogmatic teaching which we are bound to believe.
However, none of that has anything to do with ascension and assumption.
Only Jesus ascended. No human has ascended. Mary was assume:d into Heaven (she did not ascend) and whether she died first is not relevant./

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[PJM]

=thistle;10149407]Ascension and assumption are completely different.
Only Christ ascended!

“to Assend” is to do so under Ones OWN powers [Only Christ could and did]

“To be ASSUMED” meand God made the call and made it happen

 

[po18guy]

I totally agree with u about Mary …right on, right on.

But, on Elijah, Enoch, & possibly Moses …God ACTED by His power to carry them up …to ASCEND them up to him !!

We have a linguistic problem here. Assumption is something which is done toward the self, for the self, and by the self. God assumes souls to Himself, by His power. Jesus, being God in the Flesh, ascended by Himself. To say that Enoch, Elijah or Mary ascended into heaven is to make them gods. Christ alone ascended. All others were assumed by God.

They had none such power - they were assumed by a power greater than themselves. In Enoch’s case, scripture declares that “God took him” (Genesis 5:24).

Some Saints have levitated during prayer. They did not do this by their own power, but by the action of the Holy Spirit. They are Saints, not gods.

 

[brb3]

We have a linguistic problem here. …To say that Enoch, Elijah or Mary ascended into heaven is to make them gods.

Now you are making ‘assumptions’ …about what I said/meant .

 

[po18guy]

Wow …where did I suggest above that Mary ever ascended to God via own powers ?

I’ve not even made claims that anyone else did either. No one elevates w/o a provided transport…a chariot, an Angel, or a rising cloud is essential.

To ascend to heaven …just means to be lifted up by God …WHILE STILL ALIVE.

To be assumed means ( to me at least) …that God takes u up FROM THE GRAVE, like in case of Mary

And, here is the trouble. Assumption is alive or dead, body and soul, by the power of God. Ascension applies only to God in Christ:

Ephesians 4:10
Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)
He that descended is the same also that ascended above all the heavens, that he might fill all things.