Sacrifice of the Mass

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Christ_Bearer said:
Here goes number 2 comment/question from a traditional protestant… *The Mass being a fresh sacrifice of Christ is a blasphemy. The book of Hebrews among other scriptures clearly states that Christ’s sacrifice was “once for all”. I even knew of a former Catholic Priest who left the Catholic Church because he said that when he read the book of Hebrews “things just weren’t lining up”. How can Christ be sacrifice over and over again when he said on the cross “it is finished!” ?
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JL: Mass is the wedding supper of the Lamb. What did Christ finish on the cross? Paul says, If Christ be not raised your faith is vain you are yet in your sins. 1Cor 15:17. The OT High Priest entered the earthly Holy of Holies with the blood of the sacrificial victim, Pascal lamb, to make atonement. Christ as victim, our Pascal Lamb, rose as both victim and High Priest. He ascended entering the Holy of Holies, not made by hands, with his blood to make atonement.

[Hb9:24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; BUT INTO HEAVEN ITSELF, now TO APPEAR in the presence of God FOR US:]. Showing forth forever, His bloody wounds as THE one unique Mediator. Bringing to remembrance that PURE OFFERING and propitiation for our sins, to the Father. Making that once for all sacrifice and our Passover Lamb present to us at mass. At mass we eat the Passover Lamb, just as the Israelites had to eat the earthly Passover lamb. The bread of life His body and the blood of the Lamb, under the appearance of bread and wine.

[Ex 25:30 and thou hast put on the table BREAD OF THE PRESENCE before Me CONTINUALLY. ] The bread of the Presence is placed on a table before the Presence of God above the Ark of the Old Covenant in the Holy of Holies. The Temple bread of the Presence is a type and foreshadowing, of Christ and his real Presence, as the bread of life, the Lamb of God, who will stand in the midst of the throne as MEDIATOR bringing to remembrance the sacrifice of the cross, before the Father.

[Rv 5:6 And I beheld, and, lo, IN THE MIDST OF THE THRONE and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, STOOD A LAMB AS it had been SLAIN, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.] Our slain sacrificed Passover Lamb the Bread of Life with his atoning blood ever living and present in the true Holy of Holies in the midst of the throne before God the Father mediating,

[1Jn2:1 MY LITTLE CHILDREN, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And IF ANY MAN SIN, we have AN ADVOCATE WITH THE FATHER, Jesus Christ the righteous: 2 And HE IS THE PROPITIATION FOR OUR SINS: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.]. Christ is our propitiation for sins before and after baptism, bringing to remembrance and making present his once for all sacrifice of great mercy. Our PURE OFFERING, Jesus Christ, our living High Priest making intercession for us. That same once for all sacrifice of the cross. There is no re-sacrifice it is the same once done MADE PRESENT, to us, a living memorial sacrifice.

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[Malachi 1:11 For FROM THE RISING OF THE SUN even UNTO the GOING DOWN of the same my name shall be great among THE GENTILES; and IN EVERY PLACE INCENSE shall be OFFERED unto my name, AND A PURE OFFERING: for my name shall be great among the heathen, saith the LORD of hosts. [That PURE OFFERING=sacrifice, this IS my body, this IS my blood, is our Eucharistic (Thank Offering, Todah in Hebrew) Lord Jesus Christ. Animal sacrifces had to be clean, but they could never be pure, only Christ our sacrifice is that PURE OFFERING from the rising to the setting of the sun.]

[Rv 5:6 And I beheld in the midst of the throne … stood a Lamb as it had been slain… Hb 7: 17 …Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec. Hb 7:24 … THIS MAN … continues ever … an unchangeable priesthood 25 Wherefore he is able also to save … seeing he ever lives to make intercession for them. … Hb 8 … We have such an high priest… 2 A minister of the sanctuary and of the true tabernacle … 3 … every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices wherefore **IT IS OF NECESSITY THAT THIS MAN HAVE SOMEWHAT ALSO TO OFFER 4 … priests that offer gifts according to the law 5 … serve to the EXAMPLE and SHADOW OF HEAVENLY THINGS… … 6 But now has he obtained a more excellent ministry… MEDIATOR OF A BETTER COVENANT … Hb9:24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; BUT into HEAVEN itself, NOW TO APPEAR IN THE PRESENCE OF GOD FOR US:]

Christ is not just sitting and watching events, he is our High Priest interceding for us with the Father, bringing to remembrance to the Father and to us that same once for all sacrifice of the lamb on the Cross. This is how he exercises His unique Mediatorship. Making present to us at Mass that we might eat our Passover Lamb. Just as the Israelites ate their Passover lamb. [JN 6:55 My flesh IS meat indeed, my blood IS drink indeed.]

Malacahi 1:11 …from the rising of the sun to the going down of the same my name shall be great among the Gentiles and IN EVERY PLACE INCENSE shall be offered to my name AND A PURE OFFERING] The prophecy of Malachi says Gentiles will offer incense and make a pure offering (sacrifice) to the Lord’s Name from the rising to setting of the sun in every place. That is fulfilled in the Catholic Church as that same once for all sacrifice of the cross is made present at Mass which is celebrated by priests in every parish daily in all places of the world. The Orthodox Church has this same pure offering also.

The fruit, of the the Tree of Life=Cross, our Passover Lamb is eaten at mass. [Hb 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren THAT HE MIGHT BE a merciful and faithful HIGH PRIEST in things pertaining to God TO MAKE RECONCILIATION FOR THE SINS OF THE PEOPLE 1Jn 2:2 2 And HE IS THE PROPITIATION FOR OUR SINS: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

[Hb9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission. 23 It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but **THE HEAVENLY THINGS themselves WITH BETTER SACRIFICES than these. 24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now TO APPEAR in the presence of God FOR US:] BETTER SACRIFICES, plural, because that once for all sacrifice of Christ is made sacramentally present to us every time mass is offered. This IS my body, this IS my blood, with these words the living memorial sacrifice is accomplished by the sacaramental separation of body and blood showing forth Christ’s death.

Hb7:25 Wherefore HE IS ABLE also TO SAVE THEM to the uttermost THAT COME UNTO GOD BY HIM, seeing HE EVER LIVETH TO MAKE INTERCESSION FOR THEM. Hb12:22 but YE ARE COME UNTO MOUNT SION, and unto THE CITY OF THE LIVING GOD, the HEAVENLY JERUSALEM, and to an innumerable company of angels, 23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and TO GOD THE JUDGE OF ALL, and TO THE SPIRITS OF JUST MEN MADE PERFECT, 24 And TO JESUS THE MEDIATOR of the new covenant, and TO THE BLOOD OF SPRINKLING, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
 
Anna_Scott said:
Boogie43,

Welcome to CAF.

Keep in mind Christ Bearer is here to ask about the Catholic faith to clear up misconceptions–such as worshiping The Blessed Virgin Mary, when Catholics actually venerate her (addressed on another thread.)

In this thread, he is asking if Christ is sacrificed over and over again in the Holy Eucharist, which is another misconception.

Right now, he just needs some answers. I know you are passionate about your faith; but maybe ease up on the sledge hammer a bit. :ouch:

Peace,
Anna
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Anna, I apologize, I didn’t mean to sound overbearing.
 
Christ_Bearer said:
In my first thread I asked about the veneration of Mary. Very helpful thoughts everyone contributed. I am still chewing on much of it. Thank you!

Here goes number 2 comment/question from a traditional protestant…

*The Mass being a fresh sacrifice of Christ is a blasphemy. The book of Hebrews among other scriptures clearly states that Christ’s sacrifice was “once for all”. I even knew of a former Catholic Priest who left the Catholic Church because he said that when he read the book of Hebrews “things just weren’t lining up”. How can Christ be sacrifice over and over again when he said on the cross “it is finished!” ?
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God’s Love is stronger than death. God’s Love transcends space and time.
And so when the priest holds up the host and says the words of consecration,
the priest makes Christ’s once-for-all sacrifice present to you …
You are standing at the foot of the Cross,
You are seeing the Risen Jesus …
all with the eyes of faith.

Think of the Mass as being like a Time Machine … or Time and Space Machine
that transports you back 2,000 years to the Holy Land
so that you can experience Christ’s love for you
in a personal way.

Or as more commonly said,
the Mass is an unbloody re-presentation of Christ’s sacrifice.

Hope this helps.

:blessyou:
 
Christ_Bearer said:
In my first thread I asked about the veneration of Mary. Very helpful thoughts everyone contributed. I am still chewing on much of it. Thank you!

Here goes number 2 comment/question from a traditional protestant…

*The Mass being a fresh sacrifice of Christ is a blasphemy. The book of Hebrews among other scriptures clearly states that Christ’s sacrifice was “once for all”. I even knew of a former Catholic Priest who left the Catholic Church because he said that when he read the book of Hebrews “things just weren’t lining up”. How can Christ be sacrifice over and over again when he said on the cross “it is finished!” ?
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I think this is the operative teaching:
For in it Christ perpetuates in an unbloody manner the sacrifice offered on the Cross, offering Himself to the Father for the world’s salvation through the ministry of priests.” [Vatican 2 Documents.9:3]
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This is a Mystery, the greatest gift and mystery. The completion of the Sacrifice, which actually comprises the entire existence of the 2nd person of the Trinity in Time, Who became Christ for us, changes the nature of the Universe in such a way that there is a … connecting thread… between Time and Eternity that can never be broken.

That is: on every altar of every Catholic Church around the world every single day, Time and Eternity are met. This is the perpetual moment of Sacrifice, re-presented, or made actual.

The sacrifice of Christ is not only perfect but perpetual. It is “finished” because He erected something Eternal and inviolable. The 2nd Person of the Trinity did not complete an act and then return to what was, but became Christ for us. Forever. The Sacrament makes us present to that moment and Him Present to us.

It’s … totally life-changing.
 
Boogie43 said:
Anna, I apologize, I didn’t mean to sound overbearing.
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Boogie43,

I know. I could feel your passion about your faith, and I respect that. Coming from a Baptist background (which is my background as well); you can understand that it takes time to correct misconceptions and open up to the possibility that what you have been taught most of your life may be wrong. Just think baby steps, like in the movie “What About Bob.” That has certainly been the case for me. I’m still taking baby steps, one day at a time.

Peace to you; and again welcome to CAF,
Anna
 
Christ Bearer,

God bless you for reflecting on our sharings of Mary…there seemed to be some apparent spiritual disturbances when you came on…

Reading through these past posts, the members here have been consistently clear that the Mass is a memorial. We do not worship through Bible services. Our means of worshiping God are of God and by God, just as the ancient Jews were taught how to worship, how to build the temple, the role and even manner of dress of the priest, the daily rituals…all these given to the people through Moses by God.

And at the Last Supper Christ says to His apostles, ‘Do This in memory of me…This is…My Body…This is My Blood’…and not only do we receive Christ’s Body and Blood, but His Soul and Divinity. The apostles did not create this worship.

This worship is the most pleasing to the Father because the sacrifice is His Son. The Book of Hebrew was the last book of Scripture to be determined by the Holy Spirit working in the Church, after 200 years of discernment, for public revelation.

The other point is that God created time. We live in linear time. But the Church is a breathing, living sacrament here on earth where the ‘High Mass’ is joined with Mass on earth with Jesus standing at the throne of God as the Lamb of God. Subsequently, He holds on to His priesthood in heaven. And the priests of Melchizedek…of Whom Christ is head, and Whose priests now have no beginning or end, – in contrast to the Levites who had to prove their lineage, who could only serve for a certain beginning and end, – the priests of the Order of Melchizedek are consecrated in spirit and truth and serve the Lord throughout their lives, and remain a priest forever when they are finally united with the Lord in heaven. And, Melchizedek foresaw the perpetual sacrifice which is the Daily Sacrifice noted in Revelations.

When we go to Mass, we leave space and time, we leave the world, and into the place of God, we enter into transcendence…and there is something so nurturing and so truthful…to go to Mass on a daily basis…and fall into the daily rhythm of life…begun by connecting the rest of the day to follow with the Mass. The world for us is now put in Christ’s order…how I wish I could attend daily Mass more!

Christ not only instituted a Passover Sacrifice but also a Communion Sacrifice of which all of us now partake.

The Mass is a Mystery… The Church is a mystery, we saved by our faith in the Lord, our sole perfection witnessed publicly in this world when we in faith, all over the world, every hour praise the Lord and affirm our Creed in Him. What Mystery does when we encounter it…the Mass a mystery, when we go to Mass, we are now into a new reality…God’s reality, not in worldly time, but in the presence of God Himself.
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Going to Mass, we are offered to God with Christ Who stands by Him and made perfect by Christ. Subsequently, the tone and spirit of our Mass is more silent, one of adoration.  The more we understand the Mass, the more we are able to participate and understand the parts.  Mystery in terms of faith is " all things in heaven and on earth recapitulated in Christ', Ephesians 1:9-10.

'The Eucharist Mystery is concrete, we say Amen when the bread and wine are changed into His Body and Blood through the Holy Spirit at the Epiclesis....the priest laying his hands over the gifts of bread and wine...mystery is something ordinary and concrete but its inner being is of God.  'The word mystery preserves the tension between the concrete and the divine'....Fr Jeremy Driscoll, 'What Happens at  Mass.'.
The Greeks used the word mystery or sacred mysteries, but the West using Latin, instead uses the word sacrament, which is akin to mystery…a sacrament containing the divine grace of Christ within…but the Latin use of sacrament is for ritual such as Baptism and Eucharist, etc.

To give you an example that Christ at the altar, glorified with the Father, the Sacrficial Lamb uniting Himself to us through the gifts, does not die again, but gives us His life that continually pours out from Him…considering the imagery of the altar in Revelations 22. I came into Mass one Sunday late. I got to my pew and had just come in from work. I looked at the people facing the altar and was blessed with this grace that although they were standing still in their pew in space and time, the Mass was carrying them forward, closer to Christ, lifting them up to meet with the Lord.

The greatest feastday in the Church is not Christmas or Easter…but ordinary Resurrection Sunday…every Sunday! At the beginning of Mass we are exhorted to come to attention and participate most deeply this sacred event. There, the Lord makes Himself present with the same presence and power as He was on Resurrection Sunday.

The Mass has two liturgies: The Liturgy of the Word where we hear the Old Testament, the praises through the Psalms, a reading from the New Testament. Then the priest rises to read the Gospel and give us the homily, followed by the Nicene Creed and Prayers of the Faithful.

Then the Liturgy of the Eucharist begins with the Offertory, the Collect, then the Sanctus and consecration followed by the Great Amen, the Our Father and then Communion followed by Thanksgiving and dismissal.

There is no indication in the Mass that Jesus is being called to die again a bloody death, but that as we recall His life, death, and resurrection in the Word and Sacrament, we are united with Him as Perpetual Sacrifice in Glory in heaven.

Every Mass atones for all the sins of the world committed every hour in Jesus.
 
Christ Bearer,

First, a word about the priest you mentioned. I’m not implying that this is the case with him, but if one looks into the background of men who have left the priesthood, one may find that a behavior or ethical problem precipitated the departure. That certainly wasn’t the first time he’d read Hebrews! Catholics are soaked in Scripture. Three years of attending Mass on Sunday and the entire Bible is covered – except the parts like St. Paul leaving his cloak in Traos:D.

You cited Christ’s words on the Cross: “It is finished.” What does it mean? Your interpretation (and the interpretation I was taught as a Protestant) is that the redemption of the human race was finished, that there was nothing more for Christ to accomplish. But is that true? In Romans 4:24-25, St. Paul wrote: "… believe in the one who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead, who was handed over for our transgressions and was raised for our justification. Jesus had to rise from the dead before His work was finished, according to the New Testament.

And it is never “finished.” The Sacrifice is outside time, everlasting. It is not repeated; but ongoing. So those who stood at the foot of the Cross in the first century had no advantage over us in the 21st century. When I kneel at Mass, I am literally kneeling at Calvary. The Sacrifice is not repeated but re-presented, i.e., presented again. Although Christ is in heaven, He left the Mass and the Eucharist with His Church on earth so He could abide with us forever.

*Jesus said to them: Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you; he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me and I in him. *John 6:53-56 RSV.

To understand the meaning of “It is finished,” read The Fourth Cup:

zuserver2.star.ucl.ac.uk/~vgg/rc/aplgtc/hahn/m4/4cp.html
 
=Christ Bearer;8981951]In my first thread I asked about the veneration of Mary. Very helpful thoughts everyone contributed. I am still chewing on much of it. Thank you!
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Here goes number 2 comment/question from a traditional protestant…
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*The Mass being a fresh sacrifice of Christ is a blasphemy
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.
IF the Mass were a “fresh” sacrifice of Christ it would be blasphemy
The book of Hebrews among other scriptures clearly states that Christ’s sacrifice was “once for all”.
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Christ’s sacrifice was once for all yet the apostle John in Revelation 5:6 saw Christ “standing as a Lamb that had been slain.” This vision was 60 years after the crucufixion so why is Christ still seen as a slain Lamb?

In Revelation 13:8 the King James translation, which is directly from the Greek, says that Christ was the " Lamb slain from the foundation of the world." How is that possible when Christ was slain 2,000 years ago “once for all?”

These verses line up beautifully with Catholic teaching that the sacrifice of the Mass is a re-presentation of Christ’s once for all sacrifice.
Notice also that according to scripture the first Christians had an altar. Why an altar? An altar is only for sacrifice and the early Christians re-presented Christ’s sacrifice in the early Mass. Hebrews 13:10
How can Christ be sacrifice over and over again when he said on the cross “it is finished!” ?
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If it was finished on the cross why did Christ have to be resurrected from the dead according to Paul?

"Romans 4:25 “Jesus our Lord, who was put to death for our trespasses and raised for our justification.”
Apparently it wasn’t finished on the cross. The resurrection was also necessary. What was finsihed on the cross was the Old Covenant and the Passover.
 
Good point, Third Day, on the Resurrection being necessary…

Here is from Tom Nash, ‘Worthy is the Lamb’,…‘Memory and action are intrinsnically connected to the Bible, for “to remember” a past event is to call forth the power of that past event and feel its impact in the present. It is to be there, to relive the actual event in some sense (CCC1363).’

He states that ‘we must differentiate between how sacrifices are offered to God in general and how Christ offered His sacrifice in particular.’ There were various types of sacrifices in the Old Testament, and one day a year, The Day of Atonement, only the high priest could enter the most Holy of Holies, and the sacrifice of the victims not completed outside, but their blood brought in and sprinkled on the Mercy Seat.’

‘Jesus’ suffering and death did not end on the Cross on Good Friday. His body remained in his earthly tomb until Resurrection Sunday. After His resurrection, he met Mary but told her she could not touch Him because he had not yet ascended to His father…but for 40 days continued to meet with the apostles…

Christ completed Calvary when He ascended into heaven, fulfilling the Day of Atonement sacrifices in particular and the Old Covenant in general:

"In speaking of a new covenant he treats the first as obsolete. And what is obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away…Thus it was necessary for the copies of the heavenly things to be purified with these rites, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. For Christ has entered, not into a sanctuary made with human hands, a copy of the true one, but heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God on our behalf. (Heb 8:13; 9:23-24).’

‘Ascending into heaven, He entered once for all into the Holy Place, taking not the blood of goats and calves but his own blood, thus securing an eternal redemption (Heb 9:11-12).’

The Transfiguration of Christ, which we celebrate His feastday on August 6, is the beginning of Christ’s Divine ministry. ‘In heaven, Jesus at the heavenly mercy seat makes intercession on our behalf before His Father and Our God, Christ achieving eternal redemption, and thus it is not necessary for Christ to suffer again.’

‘The heavenly phase which began with Christ’s Self offering in the heavenly sanctuary and which completed the Sacrifice of Calvary, never ends. We say Christ is reigning in glory as a “Lamb standing, as though it had been slain” (Rev 5:6).’

‘The heavenly phase mysteriously brings Christ’s death and Resurrection into a sanctuary, Christ bearing the marks of his crucifixion while simultaneously reigning in glory…standing illustrating he has triumphed over sin and death.’

‘Hebrew 8:1-2 makes it clear that while he has entered the heavenly sanctuary , he continues now to appear to God on our behalf. (Heb 9:24 emphasis added; see Heb 10:12; CCC1090 and 1326).’

‘Because Christ’s sacrifice is principally offered in the heavenly sanctuary, heaven and earth then mysteriously intersect at Mass, enabling us to become present to His everlasting Offering.’

‘Christ will continue to make everlasting Offering until His second coming.’

Mr Nash had a program airing this past year on EWTN covering these aspects of the Mass and if Christ had to suffer, die and rise again.
 
That’s a great question to ask.

I for one prefer to speak plainly (although the Catechism, being the book that explains exactly what Catholics believe, is great; it can be a little difficult to understand sometimes.)

Yes, Jesus was “a priest forever, in the line of Melchisedech.” (Heb. 5:6) It was Melchisedech who offered bread and wine as a sacrifice and didn’t come from any line of priests.

In studying the Jewish faith you will see that at the time of Jesus the Passover wasn’t just a sacrifice, but also a remembrence, where the Jews would not only remember, but somehow MAKE PRESENT their deliverance.

This became part of Jewish Tradition (BTW, this was not considered part of the “traditions of man” that Jesus condemned, He was referring to the man-made traditions that some Jewish priests were inventing, not commands that God had given the Jews through the priests.) and during the Passover meal the youngest son was to stand up and ask his father “Why is this night different from other nights?” The father would then respond, by explaining the meaning. This is part of the “Mishnah” In the (Mishnah, Pesahim 10:5) It reads: "In every generation a man must so regard himself as if he came forth himself our of Egypt, for it is written…“It is because of what the Lord did for ME when I came forth out of Egypt.” (Exod 13:8)

In the same way the Catholic faith considers that, although, “Christ died once for all”, He became the new Passover lamb, and just like the Jewish Passover lamb was eaten and celebrated as a re-presentation (meaning you are made present at the original sacrifice, since God may move back and forth in time, and is not bound by it.) Jesus’ sacrifice is also not bound to time, and we can therefore be made present at the time of the sacrifice, and so participate in it every time it is offered by a priest.

Since Jesus was the fulfillment of the Jewish faith and not a new faith, in order to better understand it, it’s helpful to know what the Jewish faith taught.

To have a proper Passover sacrifice the Jew must follow certain steps. They are:
  1. Purchase an unblemished lamb (no flaws)
  2. Sacrifice it.
  3. Then spread the blood of that lamb on the door posts and top of the door as a sign that the lamb had been slaughtered.
  4. Eat the lamb with unleavened bread.
  5. Keep the Passover every year as a “Day of Remembrance.”
If any of these steps were not done than the Passover was not complete. So how could we have a new Passover if we have no lamb to slaughter, and no lamb to eat? Jesus is the new lamb that was slain; but we must EAT the lamb. How is that done? Well, Jesus said, “I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you. Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him. As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who feeds on Me will live because of Me.” (Jn 6: 53-57). You will note that many of his disciples then left Him because they felt that he was suggesting cannibalism, yet He didn’t call them back and He didn’t explain the meaning of this, as he had done with ALL the other parables and even though he had told His disciples that He would always explain the parables to His own, but not to those that didn’t believe in Him.

So basically that’s it. 1) As God commanded the Jews, He now commands us to follow Christ as the New Covenant, and to celebrate the New Passover with the New Passover lamb, Jesus. 2) We Re-Present, not represent the sacrifice at Calvary every time the priest consecrates the bread and wine by saying the words that Christ commanded us to say in remembrance of Him. 3) Jesus becomes the bread and wine, as He said, so that we can eat His body and drink His blood in an unbloody manner. We “feed(s) on Him (to) live.” (Jn 6:57).

I hope this clears up some of what we believe and why. This topic can be more and more fully explained using the Sacred Scriptures of the Bible, but I hope that is a good start, along with what my fellow Catholics have written.

Always remember to “Seek and you shall find.” As He himself promised. Never stop seeking to know Him and follow Him.

May God Bless you and yours! <><:gopray2:[BIBLEDRB][/BIBLEDRB]
 
As I’ve done before, I failed to notice the last two pages of this post! It wasn’t until after I posted that I noticed that there were 2 more pages of replies.

Those replies were wonderful in there explanations. I just hope that I was able to offer something fresh to this conversation.

Praise God always and anyways!
Mary
 
Some of these answers were HUGE! That good though. So rich and deep is the Eucharist from a Catholic perspective. I only wish my own protestant Brothers and Sisters were engaged in such fellowship with Christ and his people.
 
Christ_Bearer said:
Some of these answers were HUGE! That good though. So rich and deep is the Eucharist from a Catholic perspective. I only wish my own protestant Brothers and Sisters were engaged in such fellowship with Christ and his people.
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That’s the thing about Catholicism - the depth, the richness, the variation, the many charisms etc.

And the GREATEST thing about Catholicism is that it is the most Biblical of the Christian faiths. That might sound strange to the “protestant” ear, but I have found it to be totally true.

Peace
James
 
Christ_Bearer said:
In my first thread I asked about the veneration of Mary. Very helpful thoughts everyone contributed. I am still chewing on much of it. Thank you!

Here goes number 2 comment/question from a traditional protestant…

*The Mass being a fresh sacrifice of Christ is a blasphemy. The book of Hebrews among other scriptures clearly states that Christ’s sacrifice was “once for all”. I even knew of a former Catholic Priest who left the Catholic Church because he said that when he read the book of Hebrews “things just weren’t lining up”. How can Christ be sacrifice over and over again when he said on the cross “it is finished!” ?
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At a retreat i attended, a priest explained the entire mass to us step by step. He explained that the mass contained many jewish traits namely in this case the sacrificial offering to God from the congregation. The bread and wine sits in the back of the church as just bread and wine. As the congregation walks in, we could stop near the offering and say a quick prayer to God stating this offering is for the intentions of a sick one or for atonement of ones sins. The jews did a similar thing when sacrifices were brought to the temple. Now, when the offerings are brought to the alter, the priest accepts these offerings from the people and offers them up to God. God accepts these offerings and transforms them from bread and wine to the body and blood of his son. The body and blood are then shared with those of the congregation who have ritually cleansed themselves of sin through the sacrement of reconcilliation and become one with christ and one in faith with each other. One must discern whether we are worthy, “cleansed” reconciled with the lord over the sins we have commited before receiving the eucharist, because nothing holy, the eurcharist, can be put into anything that is not holy, an unrepentant or unconfessed condition of one of the flock.

The Eurcharistic celebration is not a “fresh sacrifice” as protestants like to claim, it is a “fresh start” for all believers who do as our lord instructed us to do and that is to eat his flesh and drink his blood to become one with him. A miracle occurs at each mass. bread and wine is transformed into the spiritual body and blood of our savior. Why is it that we doubt the real presence? Our God is attributed with so many miracles, why is it so hard to believe that our God cannot change bread and wine into the flesh and blood of his son our lord. The miracle of the Eurcharist occurs every day in the celebration of the mass. It is a beautiful sharing of gifts between the lord and his people.
 
Don’t forget these scriptures:

Luke 24:26:

"Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and so to enter into his glory? [27]** And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded to them in all the scriptures, the things that were concerning him.** [28] And they drew nigh to the town, whither they were going: and he made as though he would go farther. [29] But they constrained him; saying: Stay with us, because it is towards evening, and the day is now far spent. And he went in with them. [30] **And it came to pass, whilst he was at table with them, he took bread, and blessed, and brake, and gave to them.

[31] And their eyes were opened, and they knew him: and he vanished out of their sight.** [32] And they said one to the other: Was not our heart burning within us, whilst he spoke in this way, and opened to us the scriptures? [33] And rising up, the same hour, they went back to Jerusalem: and they found the eleven gathered together, and those that were staying with them, [34] Saying: The Lord is risen indeed, and hath appeared to Simon. [35] And they told what things were done in the way; and how they knew him in the breaking of the bread. "

Christ taught the Apostles everything concerning himself in the scriptures. This would include the Eucharist! As we see here. We need to trust the Church, which is the continuation of the Apostles and the true Faith. Again, the Bible testifies to the Catholic truth not b/c the Church has pulled the truth from the pages but b/c the pages were written by the Church. The Church has the full Tradition as passed down through the centuries.

God Bless.
 
Concerning Catholic Bibles I like to stick with the RSV-CE Second Edition. I have a hard copy of this. I also like to use drbo.org when on the computer. The Douay-Rheims is the Catholic KJV.
 
Christ Bearer…

Again…your search for truth is the working of the Holy Spirit. Actually the Mass is the fulfillment of the Bible…Christ’s remaining presence with us.

The Bible is about God and us, and promising us a savior, He comes, He is rejected by many and accepted by many, He is the Paschal Lamb.

When we enter Mass, we are no longer in time. And we are connected in God with those alive in God who passed on before us, all praising Him at the altar in heaven, and Jesus glorifed united and nurturing us with Himself…we are now in the life and Spirit of God at Mass.

The Book of Revelation 22 gives us a glimpse of the Mass. And when we stand with the Lord Who stands, wounded yet victorious over sin and death, redeeming us, nurturing us before God and the Mercy Seat in heaven, we with the Lord, stand trumphant over evil itself.

When we are united in Christ sacramentally, all the disciplines for us by the Church are possible. Our faith binds us to the Lord, not just in will, but mystically and physically.

It is very hard to explain what the Mass is to people who inquire. IT is so deep and it has taken me many years to learn it because in my own chronological development and when I was younger, He called me out to serve others.
 
Cursilista said:
One must discern whether we are worthy, “cleansed” reconciled with the lord over the sins we have commited before receiving the eucharist, because nothing holy, the eurcharist, can be put into anything that is not holy, an unrepentant or unconfessed condition of one of the flock.
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The way that you phrased this made me connect the Eucharist to the new and old wine skins parable. You do not put new wine in old wine skins. We must be made new through Christ’s forgiveness then we can receive the Blood of Christ in the form of WINE! It truly is “NEW wine”.

This is probably super obvious to everyone else, but I just connected the dots.
 
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