Sacrifice

[srferdave]

I was having a debate about sacrifice with my fiance. I suggested that she try to give up something for lent. But she thought it was not beneficial to give up something unless you replace it with prayer. She is correct that it is beneficial to give something up and replace it with prayer but I couldn’t explain to her that it was, in a smaller way, beneficial to give something up even if it isn’t replaced with prayer. She thought giving up something smaller will do nothing for ones relationship with God. Is there any material one could give me to hopefully help her with this understanding. Preferably from the Bible since she is Baptist and doesn’t necessarily accept anything outside the Bible.

 

[Robbinson]

How about Matthew 9:15

And Jesus said to them, “Can the wedding guests mourn as long as the bridegroom is with them? The days will come, when the bridegroom is taken away from them, and then they will fast.”

Fast is a type of sacrifice which Jesus said we would do after he ascended into heaven.

Blessings,

Brian

 

[TimothyH]

Peter spoke about spiritual sacrifices.

*Come to him, a living stone, rejected by human beings but chosen and precious in the sight of God, and, like living stones, let yourselves be built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. (1 Peter 2:4-5)*Paul also speaks directly about mortification of bodily desires as a means to holiness.

***For if you live according to the flesh, you shall die: but if by the Spirit you mortify the deeds of the flesh, you shall live. **(Romans 8:13)*and

Put to death, then, the parts of you that are earthly: immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and the greed that is idolatry. (Colossians 3:5)

*Now those who belong to Christ (Jesus) have crucified their flesh with its passions and desires. (Galatians 5:24)*Mortification is a means by which we can train ourselves to say no to our desires.

-Tim-

 

[FCEGM]

I was having a debate about sacrifice with my fiance. I suggested that she try to give up something for lent. But she thought it was not beneficial to give up something unless you replace it with prayer. She is correct that it is beneficial to give something up and replace it with prayer but I couldn’t explain to her that it was, in a smaller way, beneficial to give something up even if it isn’t replaced with prayer. She thought giving up something smaller will do nothing for ones relationship with God. Is there any material one could give me to hopefully help her with this understanding. Preferably from the Bible since she is Baptist and doesn’t necessarily accept anything outside the Bible.

Actually she’s correct - when we give something up it must be accompanied by prayer; we aren’t strong enough to die to ourselves without God’s grace and so we pray for that. As for the benefits of giving something up, a passage comes to mind - the one about the rich young man going away sad because he couldn’t leave his possessions to follow Jesus.

While we may say we love the Lord and are strong in our faith, we often find that we are so encumbered by our possessions that it’s painful to give up even one little thing for a small amount of time so as to aid our spiritual maturity. E.G., can we give up the computer for, say a month, and devote that time instead to be with the Lord in prayer and study of Sacred Scripture? In doing so we quickly find how dependent we are on what we don’t need. The practice of giving up something for Lent is meant to mature us in our faith as it signals to us how much we fill up our lives with that which isn’t God.

 

[PJM]

=srferdave;7556000]I was having a debate about sacrifice with my fiance. I suggested that she try to give up something for lent. But she thought it was not beneficial to give up something unless you replace it with prayer. She is correct that it is beneficial to give something up and replace it with prayer but I couldn’t explain to her that it was, in a smaller way, beneficial to give something up even if it isn’t replaced with prayer. She thought giving up something smaller will do nothing for ones relationship with God. Is there any material one could give me to hopefully help her with this understanding. Preferably from the Bible since she is Baptist and doesn’t necessarily accept anything outside the Bible.

“Take up your cross and follow me” appears Five times in the NT.

"Luke.14: 7 Whoever does not bear his own cross and come after me, cannot be my disciple.”

Rom.12 1: 1 “I appeal to you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship.”

Luke.24: 26 “Was it not necessary that the Christ should suffer these things and enter into his glory?” Bishop Fulton Sheen says: "it is FOLLY to thing that one can [will[ particiapte in Christ Glory, without first participating for him in SUFFERING."

**Rom. 5: 2-4 **Through him we have obtained access to this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in our hope of sharing the glory of God. More than that, we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, and endurance produces character, and character produces hope"

**2Cor.1: 5-7 **“For as we share abundantly in Christ’s sufferings, so through Christ we share abundantly in comfort too. If we are afflicted, it is for your comfort and salvation; and if we are comforted, it is for your comfort, which you experience when you patiently endure the same sufferings that we suffer. Our hope for you is unshaken; for we know that as you share in our sufferings, you will also share in our comfort”

**Phil.1: 29 **“For it has been granted to you that for the sake of Christ you should not only believe in him but also suffer for his sake,”

God Bless, Pat**

 

[srferdave]

Actually she’s correct - when we give something up it must be accompanied by prayer; we aren’t strong enough to die to ourselves without God’s grace and so we pray for that. As for the benefits of giving something up, a passage comes to mind - the one about the rich young man going away sad because he couldn’t leave his possessions to follow Jesus.

While we may say we love the Lord and are strong in our faith, we often find that we are so encumbered by our possessions that it’s painful to give up even one little thing for a small amount of time so as to aid our spiritual maturity. E.G., can we give up the computer for, say a month, and devote that time instead to be with the Lord in prayer and study of Sacred Scripture? In doing so we quickly find how dependent we are on what we don’t need. The practice of giving up something for Lent is meant to mature us in our faith as it signals to us how much we fill up our lives with that which isn’t God.

I don’t deny that giving up something and replacing it with prayer is beneficial. However, I believe to give up something in and of itself is a form of prayer. So in that respect, the pure fact of giving something up would be beneficial.

 

[Huiou_Theou]

I don’t deny that giving up something and replacing it with prayer is beneficial. However, I believe to give up something in and of itself is a form of prayer. So in that respect, the pure fact of giving something up would be beneficial.

But, that presupposes that all prayer is beneficial at all times and places. I don’t think that’s true. Consider, in the OT Law there is a form of prayer called “don’t eat pork.”.
At very least, it was a disciplinary way to give people practice at “not” having everything that their neighbors did – eg: a predetermined Lentin practice that went all year around.

But it became something unhealthy at a certain point, for it isn’t brought into the new testament or affirmed – rather, St. Peter was told to break that fast for the sake of the Gentiles, and look also at what St. Paul says in Colossians:

Colos 2:21 Touch not: taste not: handle not.
Colos 2:22 Which all are unto destruction by the very use, according to the precepts and doctrines of men.
Colos 2:23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in superstition and humility, and not sparing the body; not in any honour to the filling of the flesh.

Colos 3:1 Therefore if you be risen with Christ,** seek the things that are above**, where Christ is sitting at the right hand of God.
Colos 3:2 Mind the things that are above,*** not the things that are upon the earth***.

The problem with “giving” up as a form of prayer is that it has a limit in its usefulness.
By giving up too much one presents temptation with a doorway; conversely by indulging too much (gluttony) the same is true.

An act of charity or giving of alms is far superior to the prayer of abstaining.
There are two penitential seasons in the year, and a weekly penitential day – the “Friday” that the Lord was crucified on, The advent season where we prepare for the nativity, and the Lenten fast and mortification. But, by observation, I think people preparing for Christmas are far more in the penitential mood of prayer than those “giving up” as a show of strength against temptation.

An anorexic – giving up all fat during Lent would be an extreme example – but it makes the point that for that person, giving up various foods would likely be sinful. There are some things which one can always give up – eg: sin; but others are of little value to God in fulfilling the two commands – Love of God, and Love of neighbor.

I don’t know to what degree this “debate” between you and your fiancee is important to you; but unless she is persecuting you for giving something up that does good for others (eg:the rice bowl, where coffee $ is donated), consider that fasting can quickly become a point of judgment between you two, and not one of prayer. We are called to peace.